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Thread: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

  1. #76

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    Have I said that Robinson shouldn't be suspended?
    Even though it’s your post it isn’t about you, it’s about those who, as you say, say he should not be suspended. They are the type who very often start a conversation with the sentence I mentioned.

  2. #77

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by willo1927 View Post
    Wow
    Who made you judge and jury over everyone.
    What some are saying is that taking into consideration his age at the time and the fact that no other instances have surfaced for 9 years then maybe he can be given the benefit of the doubt.
    You call him a racist but you don't know him anymore than I do.
    I'm sure if I made a remark or accused you of being something you would take me to task over it but you seem to think you can
    accuse people you don't know of being this and that.
    Because somebody doesn't agree with you doesn't make them racist apologists it just means that in their opinion what action should be taken against him differs from yours.
    Nobody on here has said its OK he's a racist because nobody knows if he is because we don't know him personally and that includes you.
    Lots of words, so little to say. See my post at 15.18 yesterday, nothing in the above message changes any of that. On the subject of Ollie Robinson at least, you're an apologist for racism - unless you're claiming that what he tweeted wasn't racist?

  3. #78

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Lots of words, so little to say. See my post at 15.18 yesterday, nothing in the above message changes any of that. On the subject of Ollie Robinson at least, you're an apologist for racism - unless you're claiming that what he tweeted wasn't racist?
    Never said that at all
    Making racist tweets 9 years ago doesn't make him a racist in my opinion.
    It made him immature and nieve.
    You seem to be on your high horse again in branding people who disagree with you.
    There's a word for that but I don't brand people I don't know so I won't say it.
    You on the otherhand call people sexist/racist/homophobic when you have never even met them
    Maybe you should have a look at yourself before you accuse people of these things.
    Talking of lots of words without saying anything reminds me of your match reports so pot kettle and all that.

  4. #79

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    It seems pretty obvious to me. I’ve not seen anyone arguing that some of the things Ollie Robinson tweeted were not racist. Therefore, there seems to be general agreement that he did send out some racist messages and according to an online dictionary I’ve just looked at, an apologist is”a person who offers an argument in defence of something controversial”, so what’s there to argue about?
    So you seem to agree that people weren't arguing that what Robinson wrote should be defended, indeed there seems general agreement that it was offensive and wrong.

    What they were doing was saying that it was not necessarily the right thing to suspend him for saying these things when he was an immature teenager, who may have different views now (of course his views may not have changed, and if that was proved he should never play for England again).

    I don't therefore think that anyone saying that they don't think suspending him in this case is a racist apologist unless at the same time they also defend what he said.

  5. #80

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    So you seem to agree that people weren't arguing that what Robinson wrote should be defended, indeed there seems general agreement that it was offensive and wrong.

    What they were doing was saying that it was not necessarily the right thing to suspend him for saying these things when he was an immature teenager, who may have different views now (of course his views may not have changed, and if that was proved he should never play for England again).

    I don't therefore think that anyone saying that they don't think suspending him in this case is a racist apologist unless at the same time they also defend what he said.
    Well put you hit the nail on the head

  6. #81

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Someone's first reaction to Robinson playing well and achieving his dream, was to dig on his twitter. After doing so, they found comments from 9 years ago, presumably there was nothing in the last 9 years of tweets that they found unacceptable. He is now banned from playing. It's getting beyond a parody now

  7. #82

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    Well put you hit the nail on the head
    So anything done as an immature teenager should be forgiven then?

  8. #83

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Posted in error

  9. #84

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    So anything done as an immature teenager should be forgiven then?
    That is not what I said in the post Blue Matt was responding to.

  10. #85

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    That is not what I said in the post Blue Matt was responding to.
    not necessarily the right thing to suspend him for saying these things when he was an immature teenager
    I don’t think his punishment needs to be any worse than it is but it’s crazy how many people seem to write off any wrong doing here because he’s an “immature teenager” using “learned behaviour” but go completely against that belief in other cases.

  11. #86

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    So you seem to agree that people weren't arguing that what Robinson wrote should be defended, indeed there seems general agreement that it was offensive and wrong.

    What they were doing was saying that it was not necessarily the right thing to suspend him for saying these things when he was an immature teenager, who may have different views now (of course his views may not have changed, and if that was proved he should never play for England again).

    I don't therefore think that anyone saying that they don't think suspending him in this case is a racist apologist unless at the same time they also defend what he said.
    I think you're tying yourself in knots a bit there Elwood - you agree that there were racist tweets, but then seek to excuse/defend Robinson, to me that means, by the definition of the word I posted on here, you're being an apologist for him.

    What you say would have far more merit in my opinion if Robinson was, say, thirteen or fourteen when he made those tweets (that is, at an age where he could reasonably be expected not to fully understand the implications of what he was saying) - he wasn't though, he was eighteen.

    In fact, off the top of my head, I'm struggling to come up with anything which precludes someone aged eighteen from being considered an adult. They are considered an adult for the purposes of the law, they can have legally have sex, they can marry, they can drink in a pub, gamble in a casino, watch "adult" films in a cinema, they can vote and they can become an MP. In short, eighteen appears to be the cut off age where someone is considered to be old enough to live with the consequences of their actions - they are thought to be an adult.

    The England and Wales Cricket Board have found themselves in a very awkward position in the past week, they are in a situation where there are no easy answers, but just consider the consequences of them doing nothing to Robinson except slapping his wrist (which, effectively, is what you and others are arguing).

    Robinson was the same age as the youngest player to ever be selected in a senior test match for England when he wrote those tweets. Bolton born Haseeb Hameed was one year older than Robinson was when he made a very impressive beginning to his test career in India in 2016. Since then Hameed has had a terrible time due to loss of form, but he's come back well enough to have earned a recall to the test squad this summer, so he was in the same dressing room as Robinson this week.

    I can only guess as to what Hameed's reaction would have been if the suits had decided to take no further action against Robinson because he was "young and immature" when he said what he did. Similarly, what would Moeen Ali (who I think has been an absolute credit to the UK's Asian heritage population during his international cricket career) or Adil Rashid, or Robinson's Sussex team mate Joffra Archer have thought? Maybe they all would be fine with it, but very significant numbers of law abiding Britons who are not white would, I'm sure, not have been and could you really blame them?

    What would Craig Overton, who served a two match ban in 2015 for racially insulting an opponent when he was twenty one (is that too young and immature for him to take full responsibility for what he said in your book?), and is another who shared the dressing room with Robinson this week have made of it if he had not been banned for at least one match? I'm going to be a bit of a racism apologist here myself now and say that I feel that there is an argument (albeit a weak one) to say that as Overton's offence was a spur of the moment thing borne out of frustration on the sporting field, his punishment should be lighter than Robinson's because there was an element of premeditation to what he did that is not present in the Overton case.

  12. #87

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    So anything done as an immature teenager should be forgiven then?
    When it was discovered he issued a apology ( yes maybe it was to save face and his career ) he could not have done anything more

    I think its safe to say the lad isnt the biggest racist in the world, afterall he might have made another racist tweet in the last 8 - 9 years, he hasnt

    you say " I don’t think his punishment needs to be any worse than it is " but others do, what happens if the people who think that he should never play for england again get their way ?

  13. #88

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    When it was discovered he issued a apology ( yes maybe it was to save face and his career ) he could not have done anything more

    I think its safe to say the lad isnt the biggest racist in the world, afterall he might have made another racist tweet in the last 8 - 9 years, he hasnt

    you say " I don’t think his punishment needs to be any worse than it is " but others do, what happens if the people who think that he should never play for england again get their way ?
    Apart from Michael Carberry, a former England opener, I've not heard anyone arguing he should be banned for life - Craig Overton was banned for two games for what he did, that seems a fair precedent to use with Robinson. Someone like Carberry represents one side of the argument, whereas you and a few others in this thread represent the other, why not go for something in the middle of the two?

  14. #89

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    When it was discovered he issued a apology ( yes maybe it was to save face and his career ) he could not have done anything more

    I think its safe to say the lad isnt the biggest racist in the world, afterall he might have made another racist tweet in the last 8 - 9 years, he hasnt

    you say " I don’t think his punishment needs to be any worse than it is " but others do, what happens if the people who think that he should never play for england again get their way ?
    If anyone else made tweets like that they’d be sacked within a week so if people get their way he won’t be being treated differently because he’s good at a niche sport.

    You must be furious about this lad going to prison for 10 weeks - https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...-teen-20644989

  15. #90

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    In terms of the fact he was 18 at the time, for me the only reason that's important is in the context of him not having any 'form' over the next 9 years. I think an 18 year old should take full responsibility for their actions. I don't think a 27yr old should be punished for tweets made at 18, that haven't been followed up since. Ollie Robinson was a complete wanker at the age of 18, thats part of the reason he is 27 before getting into the test side. People don't mature at the same rate, his maturing process obviously came post 18.

    If they were recent history I'd support a 2 game ban, but these tweets were 9 years ago

  16. #91

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    If anyone else made tweets like that they’d be sacked within a week so if people get their way he won’t be being treated differently because he’s good at a niche sport.

    You must be furious about this lad going to prison for 10 weeks - https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...-teen-20644989
    Personally I'd hope that people can see a difference between braindead tweets, and karate kicking a 74yr old man into a river. Struggling to believe you're actually being serious here

  17. #92

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp_1927 View Post
    In terms of the fact he was 18 at the time, for me the only reason that's important is in the context of him not having any 'form' over the next 9 years. I think an 18 year old should take full responsibility for their actions. I don't think a 27yr old should be punished for tweets made at 18, that haven't been followed up since. Ollie Robinson was a complete wanker at the age of 18, thats part of the reason he is 27 before getting into the test side. People don't mature at the same rate, his maturing process obviously came post 18.

    If they were recent history I'd support a 2 game ban, but these tweets were 9 years ago
    If Robinson had say committed a crime say an assault at 18 and only been identified now do you think we should say ah but hes been a good lad since so lets forget about it.

    I think the ECB are doing the right thing. Full investigation and if hes done nothing since is clearly remorseful and not the person he was then probably a short ban.

    I dont want his career ruined but then I havent been affected like Michael Carberry , and the others that Robinson thought it so funny to mock.

    I dont think just saying forget about it would do the player any favours either.

  18. #93

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    If Robinson had say committed a crime say an assault at 18 and only been identified now do you think we should say ah but hes been a good lad since so lets forget about it.

    I think the ECB are doing the right thing. Full investigation and if hes done nothing since is clearly remorseful and not the person he was then probably a short ban.

    I dont want his career ruined but then I havent been affected like Michael Carberry , and the others that Robinson thought it so funny to mock.

    I dont think just saying forget about it would do the player any favours either.
    The trouble with the examples like that though is that I just don't think they fit. Say he had been convicted of assault at 18, had a suspended sentence or whatever. People would I imagine , be perfectly happy for him to play. Or what if this moron who 'discovered ' the tweets had done it 2 years ago?

    Those tweets were seemingly reflective of his personality at that stage of his life. Thats why he couldn't hold down a county contract. He was a complete prick, and didn't deserve to be around professional cricket at that age.

    As for Carberry, I feel for him. There was something going on with the way the selectors looked at him. He was an absolutely brilliant batsman across all formats. My thoughts at the time were that you ideally needed to be a white south African to play cricket for England, if you were a white South African you didn't even have to be very good at the game to get into the England side(kieswetter and lumb being the prime examples). If you were a white British player you had to pull up trees, black british like Carberry could have averaged 100 and still wouldn't have got a sniff.

    But nothing has ever happened to the selectors, nobody has ever gone back to them and questioned them on their policies or their personal 'criteria' . One of the few good things about 18yr old braindead knuckle draggers is that they don't tend to be near the levers of power. The people who closed the door to the likes of carberry are the ones who deserve to be in the firing line

  19. #94

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp_1927 View Post
    Personally I'd hope that people can see a difference between braindead tweets, and karate kicking a 74yr old man into a river. Struggling to believe you're actually being serious here
    dont worry, he isnt being serious

    has a pattern of discussion its sensible discussion - idiotic example of something that even the people arguing the same side as him think " wtf " - a personal insult just to prove he has ran out of idea's


    you wait till his " mate " Rudy comes along to agree with him against you then you know you have made it on CCMB

  20. #95

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    I probably should have checked the whole story out before diving in. He's missing this game as 'suspended under investigation ' rather than being banned for a game. With the quick turnaround between tests it seems fair for him to miss this one. The ecb would be failing in their responsibilities if they didn't investigate this properly before allowing him back in. Quite shameful really that boris and dowden have decided to jump in and condemn what is essentially an employment disciplinary investigation.

  21. #96

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    here is one, did punishment have to be him missing a test / series ? ? ? could he have spent his spare time ( how ever many hours were deemed fit as punishment ) going around schools educating children on the power of social media and how negative remarks can effect lives

    I noticed he has been " given time off " by sussex for his mental heath and wellbeing

  22. #97

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    here is one, did punishment have to be him missing a test / series ? ? ? could he have spent his spare time ( how ever many hours were deemed fit as punishment ) going around schools educating children on the power of social media and how negative remarks can effect lives

    I noticed he has been " given time off " by sussex for his mental heath and wellbeing
    Why do you think that he's in any position to tell kids what's right and wrong? It's always school kids and the military that are you touted as a tool to rehabilitate poor behaviour!

    A question for you. What would your reaction be if this was an 18 to year old British born Muslim, who just so happened to be a very good cricketer and was representing England, but had posted inflammatory tweets about the British military invading Muslim countries and attacking British foreign policy? How would you react to that, and how do you think the right wing media would react? You reckon it would be a case of ' Stupid Boy' because I don't.

  23. #98

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Why do you think that he's in any position to tell kids what's right and wrong? It's always school kids and the military that are you touted as a tool to rehabilitate poor behaviour!

    A question for you. What would your reaction be if this was an 18 to year old British born Muslim, who just so happened to be a very good cricketer and was representing England, but had posted inflammatory tweets about the British military invading Muslim countries and attacking British foreign policy? How would you react to that, and how do you think the right wing media would react? You reckon it would be a case of ' Stupid Boy' because I don't.

    I guess they'll learn that it doesn't matter what you do as a kid, or even at 18.

  24. #99

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Many of us were fortunate in growing up at a juncture in when our immature behaviour and comments were not recorded, either deliberately or otherwise. No-one in their right minds condones racism but we also have to avoid the pitchfork mentality that is all-pervading these days. Measured responses rather than hysterical ones are required. End of sermon.

  25. #100

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp_1927 View Post
    In terms of the fact he was 18 at the time, for me the only reason that's important is in the context of him not having any 'form' over the next 9 years. I think an 18 year old should take full responsibility for their actions. I don't think a 27yr old should be punished for tweets made at 18, that haven't been followed up since. Ollie Robinson was a complete wanker at the age of 18, thats part of the reason he is 27 before getting into the test side. People don't mature at the same rate, his maturing process obviously came post 18.

    If they were recent history I'd support a 2 game ban, but these tweets were 9 years ago
    Be careful now
    You're talking sense and some on here don't like that.
    They think that every 18 yo is a mature wellrounded adult.
    I have coached youngster from 6 to 18 and there is a vast difference in maturity in boys of the same age.
    We can't just brush under the carpet what he did but I think educating is the way to go not suspension but the pitchforks are out with certain people on here.

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