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Thread: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

  1. #101

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Many of us were fortunate in growing up at a juncture in when our immature behaviour and comments were not recorded, either deliberately or otherwise. No-one in their right minds condones racism but we also have to avoid the pitchfork mentality that is all-pervading these days. Measured responses rather than hysterical ones are required. End of sermon.
    Well said

  2. #102

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by willo1927 View Post
    Be careful now
    You're talking sense and some on here don't like that.
    They think that every 18 yo is a mature wellrounded adult.
    I have coached youngster from 6 to 18 and there is a vast difference in maturity in boys of the same age.
    We can't just brush under the carpet what he did but I think educating is the way to go not suspension but the pitchforks are out with certain people on here.
    I probably should have checked the whole story out before diving in. He's missing this game as 'suspended under investigation ' rather than being banned for a game. With the quick turnaround between tests it seems fair for him to miss this one. The ecb would be failing in their responsibilities if they didn't investigate this properly before allowing him back in. Quite shameful really that boris and dowden have decided to jump in and condemn what is essentially an employment disciplinary investigation.

  3. #103

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I think you're tying yourself in knots a bit there Elwood - you agree that there were racist tweets, but then seek to excuse/defend Robinson, to me that means, by the definition of the word I posted on here, you're being an apologist for him.

    What you say would have far more merit in my opinion if Robinson was, say, thirteen or fourteen when he made those tweets (that is, at an age where he could reasonably be expected not to fully understand the implications of what he was saying) - he wasn't though, he was eighteen.

    In fact, off the top of my head, I'm struggling to come up with anything which precludes someone aged eighteen from being considered an adult. They are considered an adult for the purposes of the law, they can have legally have sex, they can marry, they can drink in a pub, gamble in a casino, watch "adult" films in a cinema, they can vote and they can become an MP. In short, eighteen appears to be the cut off age where someone is considered to be old enough to live with the consequences of their actions - they are thought to be an adult.

    The England and Wales Cricket Board have found themselves in a very awkward position in the past week, they are in a situation where there are no easy answers, but just consider the consequences of them doing nothing to Robinson except slapping his wrist (which, effectively, is what you and others are arguing).

    Robinson was the same age as the youngest player to ever be selected in a senior test match for England when he wrote those tweets. Bolton born Haseeb Hameed was one year older than Robinson was when he made a very impressive beginning to his test career in India in 2016. Since then Hameed has had a terrible time due to loss of form, but he's come back well enough to have earned a recall to the test squad this summer, so he was in the same dressing room as Robinson this week.

    I can only guess as to what Hameed's reaction would have been if the suits had decided to take no further action against Robinson because he was "young and immature" when he said what he did. Similarly, what would Moeen Ali (who I think has been an absolute credit to the UK's Asian heritage population during his international cricket career) or Adil Rashid, or Robinson's Sussex team mate Joffra Archer have thought? Maybe they all would be fine with it, but very significant numbers of law abiding Britons who are not white would, I'm sure, not have been and could you really blame them?

    What would Craig Overton, who served a two match ban in 2015 for racially insulting an opponent when he was twenty one (is that too young and immature for him to take full responsibility for what he said in your book?), and is another who shared the dressing room with Robinson this week have made of it if he had not been banned for at least one match? I'm going to be a bit of a racism apologist here myself now and say that I feel that there is an argument (albeit a weak one) to say that as Overton's offence was a spur of the moment thing borne out of frustration on the sporting field, his punishment should be lighter than Robinson's because there was an element of premeditation to what he did that is not present in the Overton case.
    No I was not tying myself in knots Bob.

    If you read my post carefully you will see that I have not expressed my view on the Robinson situation, indeed I used terms such as "people weren't and also "they" whenever I referred to anyone supporting the view that he should not be suspended.

    I was therefore not defending him for him but seeking to point out that the people who were defending him were doing so because they were against the punishment not because they supported racism. They may have been "Robinson apologists" but not "racist apologists".

    I you really want my view (instead of presuming to know what my views are which you have form for in my case and others as well) they are that I can agree with what the ECB has done in suspending him pending investigation as long as they pull their fingers out and get it sorted out quickly.

    Rather than give a long answer to the rest of your epistle I will just say I am in in agreement with this comment I saw which I think in its way covers the subject

    "If he has done something like that nine years ago, and since then he has learnt and he has done nothing like that and he has changed his ways in recent years, then I don't think you should come down too hard on him,

    I was a young man once, I did a lot of rubbish as a youngster, and as you go through life you learn and recognise ‘Oh, perhaps what I did at 18 doesn’t apply now, I can’t behave like that now’"

    Over to you. but please try not to put words in my mouth in future

  4. #104

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    No I was not tying myself in knots Bob.

    If you read my post carefully you will see that I have not expressed my view on the Robinson situation, indeed I used terms such as "people weren't and also "they" whenever I referred to anyone supporting the view that he should not be suspended.

    I was therefore not defending him for him but seeking to point out that the people who were defending him were doing so because they were against the punishment not because they supported racism. They may have been "Robinson apologists" but not "racist apologists".

    I you really want my view (instead of presuming to know what my views are which you have form for in my case and others as well) they are that I can agree with what the ECB has done in suspending him pending investigation as long as they pull their fingers out and get it sorted out quickly.

    Rather than give a long answer to the rest of your epistle I will just say I am in in agreement with this comment I saw which I think in its way covers the subject

    "If he has done something like that nine years ago, and since then he has learnt and he has done nothing like that and he has changed his ways in recent years, then I don't think you should come down too hard on him,

    I was a young man once, I did a lot of rubbish as a youngster, and as you go through life you learn and recognise ‘Oh, perhaps what I did at 18 doesn’t apply now, I can’t behave like that now’"

    Over to you. but please try not to put words in my mouth in future
    Did you say things like that as an 18 year old, just out of interest.

  5. #105

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    No did you?

    Oh and do you agree with my quote at the end?

  6. #106

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    No I was not tying myself in knots Bob.

    If you read my post carefully you will see that I have not expressed my view on the Robinson situation, indeed I used terms such as "people weren't and also "they" whenever I referred to anyone supporting the view that he should not be suspended.

    I was therefore not defending him for him but seeking to point out that the people who were defending him were doing so because they were against the punishment not because they supported racism. They may have been "Robinson apologists" but not "racist apologists".

    I you really want my view (instead of presuming to know what my views are which you have form for in my case and others as well) they are that I can agree with what the ECB has done in suspending him pending investigation as long as they pull their fingers out and get it sorted out quickly.

    Rather than give a long answer to the rest of your epistle I will just say I am in in agreement with this comment I saw which I think in its way covers the subject

    "If he has done something like that nine years ago, and since then he has learnt and he has done nothing like that and he has changed his ways in recent years, then I don't think you should come down too hard on him,

    I was a young man once, I did a lot of rubbish as a youngster, and as you go through life you learn and recognise ‘Oh, perhaps what I did at 18 doesn’t apply now, I can’t behave like that now’"

    Over to you. but please try not to put words in my mouth in future
    Well, I'm glad you finally outlined what you thought because it was not clear beforehand. If I'm guilty of jumping to conclusions (and I'm still not 100 per cent sure I did), I apologise, but then I can say the same about you. I have taken care not to call anyone in this thread, or Ollie Robinson for that matter, a racist, but, clearly, there was an instance of racism from him at one time, so what I have been saying is that people who seek to excuse or defend him when it comes to that instance of racism are apologists.

    I have never said they are "racist apologists", but they are racism apologists. I think there is a, subtle, difference between the two because the first one carries the suggestion that the apologist is a racist themselves, whereas I hope the second one is suggestive of someone who is being an apologist for an act of racism because that is what meant when I said some in this thread were being apologists for racism..

    I'd read what Michael Holding had to say on the matter and, for me, it all boils down to what he means by "I don't think you should come down too hard on him". I can confirm that i "did a lot of rubbish as a youngster", but that rubbish never stretched to putting downright offensive opinions into the public domain of the type Robinson did at an age when he was, to all intents and purposes, considered to be an adult. Because of that, I'm firmly of the opinion that Robinson should have been suspended or omitted from at least the test following his debut.

    I've said that there is the precedent here of the Craig Overton case where he served a two game ban and would argue that such a punishment is not coming down too hard on Robinson in the way that, say, a four game one might be. However, if it is decided that missing the current test is sufficient punishment for him, then so be it - the important thing is that he has served a punishment for what he did which, for the reasons I mentioned when I talked about the four players Robinson may well play international cricket for England with in the future, had to be imposed.

  7. #107

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    No I was not tying myself in knots Bob.

    If you read my post carefully you will see that I have not expressed my view on the Robinson situation, indeed I used terms such as "people weren't and also "they" whenever I referred to anyone supporting the view that he should not be suspended.

    I was therefore not defending him for him but seeking to point out that the people who were defending him were doing so because they were against the punishment not because they supported racism. They may have been "Robinson apologists" but not "racist apologists".

    I you really want my view (instead of presuming to know what my views are which you have form for in my case and others as well) they are that I can agree with what the ECB has done in suspending him pending investigation as long as they pull their fingers out and get it sorted out quickly.

    Rather than give a long answer to the rest of your epistle I will just say I am in in agreement with this comment I saw which I think in its way covers the subject

    "If he has done something like that nine years ago, and since then he has learnt and he has done nothing like that and he has changed his ways in recent years, then I don't think you should come down too hard on him,

    I was a young man once, I did a lot of rubbish as a youngster, and as you go through life you learn and recognise ‘Oh, perhaps what I did at 18 doesn’t apply now, I can’t behave like that now’"

    Over to you. but please try not to put words in my mouth in future
    No they dont need to get their fingers out and sort it out quickly.

    They need to make sure they do a thorough investigation.

    Theres been complaints in the past about racism in cricket and we have no idea what the consequences of Robinsons behaviour back then. What affect did it have on say young asian cricketers at the clubs Robinson was at. Has Robinson apologised to any young cricketers who may have been affected by those tweets?

    The ECB are going to need to speak to those around Robinson at the time up to now.

    No tweets for 9 years. We dont know if thats because he was told he was asking for it putting his cr@p and social media.

    They need to make sure he hasnt continued acting like a pr!ck.

    Thats going to involve speaking to lots of people.

    Hopefully the result is Robinson stopped acting like a tw@t 9 years ago.

    If thats the case then I agree with Michael Holding.

  8. #108

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Well, I'm glad you finally outlined what you thought because it was not clear beforehand. If I'm guilty of jumping to conclusions (and I'm still not 100 per cent sure I did), I apologise, but then I can say the same about you. I have taken care not to call anyone in this thread, or Ollie Robinson for that matter, a racist, but, clearly, there was an instance of racism from him at one time, so what I have been saying is that people who seek to excuse or defend him when it comes to that instance of racism are apologists.

    I have never said they are "racist apologists", but they are racism apologists. I think there is a, subtle, difference between the two because the first one carries the suggestion that the apologist is a racist themselves, whereas I hope the second one is suggestive of someone who is being an apologist for an act of racism because that is what meant when I said some in this thread were being apologists for racism..

    I'd read what Michael Holding had to say on the matter and, for me, it all boils down to what he means by "I don't think you should come down too hard on him". I can confirm that i "did a lot of rubbish as a youngster", but that rubbish never stretched to putting downright offensive opinions into the public domain of the type Robinson did at an age when he was, to all intents and purposes, considered to be an adult. Because of that, I'm firmly of the opinion that Robinson should have been suspended or omitted from at least the test following his debut.

    I've said that there is the precedent here of the Craig Overton case where he served a two game ban and would argue that such a punishment is not coming down too hard on Robinson in the way that, say, a four game one might be. However, if it is decided that missing the current test is sufficient punishment for him, then so be it - the important thing is that he has served a punishment for what he did which, for the reasons I mentioned when I talked about the four players Robinson may well play international cricket for England with in the future, had to be imposed.
    Thank you for the apology Bob even though it does come with a bit of a sting in the table (why aren't you 100% sure you jumped to conclusions, and why can you say then same about me?)

    I meant to say racism not racist apologists and even though you sat there is a subtle difference between the two words, my arguments about your use of the phrase still hold good.

    Yes they were Michael Holding's words and I deliberately didn't put his name because I reckon that if one of the message board contributors had used the same language, especially the bits I put in bold, you would have used it as an example of their being a racism apologist!

  9. #109

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    No did you?

    Oh and do you agree with my quote at the end?
    I certainly didn't say stuff like that, although i was brought up in quite different surroundings to most people i know. Racism and bigotry were never on the menu.

    As for the quote, i do agree, but only to a point, i do feel a sense of resignation in the quoted words. There are also enough 'if's' in the quote to make me think that the person who said those words would like some evidence to suggest this person has changed.

    For the record, i don't want this cricketer to suffer forever, that would be a complete waste, nobody benefits in my opinion. What i would like to see is a real concerted effort by him to prove that he isn't that person anymore, that he has learned from his mistake. 'Sorry' isn't enough in my opinion, especially when a person has been so overt when expressing themselves. If he had anything about him then he would get involved in some kind of education programme, act physically, and own what he has said. That would do more than any pre prepared apology in my opinion.

  10. #110

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Ollie Robinson available to play immediately (hopefully not against us tomorrow after his nine wickets in an innings at Cardiff!) after serving what amounts to an eight game ban;-

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/57697159

  11. #111

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Common sense prevails at last

  12. #112

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Great news, welcome back Ollie ( go easy on Glammy )

  13. #113

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Luckily for Glamorgan he is one of the Sussex players forced to self isolate.

    Feel a bit sorry for him now. He's going to be a bit of a hero for the farage type mob and a target for the Blm mob. Hopefully they'll all bugger off soon and leave him to play cricket.

  14. #114

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    Thank you for the apology Bob even though it does come with a bit of a sting in the table (why aren't you 100% sure you jumped to conclusions, and why can you say then same about me?)

    I meant to say racism not racist apologists and even though you sat there is a subtle difference between the two words, my arguments about your use of the phrase still hold good.

    Yes they were Michael Holding's words and I deliberately didn't put his name because I reckon that if one of the message board contributors had used the same language, especially the bits I put in bold, you would have used it as an example of their being a racism apologist!
    As this has now resurfaced any chance of answering my question Bob (why aren't you 100% sure you jumped to conclusions, and why can you say then same about me?)

  15. #115

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp_1927 View Post
    Luckily for Glamorgan he is one of the Sussex players forced to self isolate.

    Feel a bit sorry for him now. He's going to be a bit of a hero for the farage type mob and a target for the Blm mob. Hopefully they'll all bugger off soon and leave him to play cricket.
    What a sad world we're in .

  16. #116

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    As this has now resurfaced any chance of answering my question Bob (why aren't you 100% sure you jumped to conclusions, and why can you say then same about me?)
    No, I won't bother if you don't mind Elwood - although I don't think he will ever be completely free of what he said in that people will resurrect it from time to time, he's served his suspension now (a longer one than I thought he'd get) and should just be allowed to build on what was a very good first appearance for England.

  17. #117

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    No, I won't bother if you don't mind Elwood - although I don't think he will ever be completely free of what he said in that people will resurrect it from time to time, he's served his suspension now (a longer one than I thought he'd get) and should just be allowed to build on what was a very good first appearance for England.
    Actually what I was getting at was that by saying you are not 100% sure that you jumped to conclusions about what I said you have doubts with my subsequent explanation. Which seems to suggest that you think I have been economical with the actualite in some way.

    So yes I do mind on this occasion but guess I won't know now. Just have to be very careful when I respond to your posts in future

  18. #118

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    Actually what I was getting at was that by saying you are not 100% sure that you jumped to conclusions about what I said you have doubts with my subsequent explanation. Which seems to suggest that you think I have been economical with the actualite in some way.

    So yes I do mind on this occasion but guess I won't know now. Just have to be very careful when I respond to your posts in future
    I think most people realised your sensitivities were offended a few posts back but fair play for confirming it!

  19. #119

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    I think most people realised your sensitivities were offended a few posts back but fair play for confirming it!
    So if I point out that I think Bob was wrong and I am not satisified with his reply I shouldn't respond???

    If anyone did it to Bob he'd write a full page on it

    Or two...........

  20. #120

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    So if I point out that I think Bob was wrong and I am not satisified with his reply I shouldn't respond???

    If anyone did it to Bob he'd write a full page on it

    Or two...........
    The way I read it you were still seeking satisfaction for an exchange three weeks ago, to which the resurrection of this thread to confirm Robinson's punishment gave you the opportunity. Just came over a bit churlish that's all...no biggie!

  21. #121

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
    The way I read it you were still seeking satisfaction for an exchange three weeks ago, to which the resurrection of this thread to confirm Robinson's punishment gave you the opportunity. Just came over a bit churlish that's all...no biggie!
    Actually I wasn't seeking satisfaction but if someone continually misrepresents your views as Bob has done a few times over the past couple of months it gets a bit annoying.

    and some days I like winding people up.

    I prefer Edward coaches by the way.......

  22. #122

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    Actually I wasn't seeking satisfaction but if someone continually misrepresents your views as Bob has done a few times over the past couple of months it gets a bit annoying.

    and some days I like winding people up.

    I prefer Edward coaches by the way.......
    That's how you came across...a bit annoyed. Good luck with your winding up pastime!

  23. #123

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    Actually I wasn't seeking satisfaction but if someone continually misrepresents your views as Bob has done a few times over the past couple of months it gets a bit annoying.

    and some days I like winding people up.

    I prefer Edward coaches by the way.......
    Nah Llantwit Fardre's own Bebb's , knew where they were going ,no sharp left turns .

  24. #124

    Re: Ollie Robinson/Twitter

    Great to see the lad amongst wickets , he looks useful at this level .

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