Stupid quarantine rules in Wales...do I ignore it?

[Cowbridge Blue]

A rigorous debate overnight and thanks to all for that. Full disclosure on our thinking / planning to return home at this time; it‘s been suggested that we delay a while which is understandable but more than an irritation; the main purpose is to visit the in-laws, both in their nineties and who the missus hasn’t seen in 2 years. They’ve battled well in the last 18 months, have had 2 vaccinations each and are extremely safety-conscious themselves. Also, the missus works at a university here so her next opportunity for a visit is not until Xmas.

Full disclosure on our plans:-
• As mentioned we’ve had 2 x Pfizer vaccinations administered in April and May;
• We are required to travel with a negative test result less than 72 hours old;
• We’re flying Icelandair who require all travelers regardless of origin to show a certificate of full vaccination and also require masks to be worn throughout the flight. Iceland is on UK’s green list of countries;
• We are on the ground for a 90-miute layover in Reykjavik but do not leave airside;
• We arrive Heathrow and will go through UK immigration checks and procedures;
• We’ll have a rental car booked and will travel direct to our family hosts in England to where three-pack testing kits will have been sent to comply with days 2, 5 and 8 tests required by UK government.
• Our family hosts live in a rural area with low infection rates and have had one vaccination and possibly a second by the time we arrive.
• Assuming the required tests show negative we would be free to leave quarantine after day 5 and travel anywhere in England.

Now we get to the point of my original post – the different rules currently in place in England and Wales. After day 5 our plans will be flexible, circumstances and rules in both countries could well have changed for the better with a further relaxation of restrictions. Otherwise we could just stay in England or perhaps visit the old folks but stay outdoors and at distance.
But why is Wales not satisfied with the day 5 release given all the other precautions having been observed? Merely in the interests of caution I suggest because the data is the same as in England and Wales have the best figures in the four home nations.

If we go we will arrive having proven we are not carrying the virus which is better than can be said for 63% of Wales' population that is not fully vaccinated; today's figures : https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-55855220 )

[dml1954]

A rigorous debate overnight and thanks to all for that. Full disclosure on our thinking / planning to return home at this time; it‘s been suggested that we delay a while which is understandable but more than an irritation; the main purpose is to visit the in-laws, both in their nineties and who the missus hasn’t seen in 2 years. They’ve battled well in the last 18 months, have had 2 vaccinations each and are extremely safety-conscious themselves. Also, the missus works at a university here so her next opportunity for a visit is not until Xmas.

Full disclosure on our plans:-
• As mentioned we’ve had 2 x Pfizer vaccinations administered in April and May;
• We are required to travel with a negative test result less than 72 hours old;
• We’re flying Icelandair who require all travelers regardless of origin to show a certificate of full vaccination and also require masks to be worn throughout the flight. Iceland is on UK’s green list of countries;
• We are on the ground for a 90-miute layover in Reykjavik but do not leave airside;
• We arrive Heathrow and will go through UK immigration checks and procedures;
• We’ll have a rental car booked and will travel direct to our family hosts in England to where three-pack testing kits will have been sent to comply with days 2, 5 and 8 tests required by UK government.
• Our family hosts live in a rural area with low infection rates and have had one vaccination and possibly a second by the time we arrive.
• Assuming the required tests show negative we would be free to leave quarantine after day 5 and travel anywhere in England.

Now we get to the point of my original post – the different rules currently in place in England and Wales. After day 5 our plans will be flexible, circumstances and rules in both countries could well have changed for the better with a further relaxation of restrictions. Otherwise we could just stay in England or perhaps visit the old folks but stay outdoors and at distance.
But why is Wales not satisfied with the day 5 release given all the other precautions having been observed? Merely in the interests of caution I suggest because the data is the same as in England and Wales have the best figures in the four home nations.

If we go we will arrive having proven we are not carrying the virus which is better than can be said for 63% of Wales' population that is not fully vaccinated; today's figures : https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-55855220 )

Sorry but no matter how you dress it up or explain your circumstances (which I am sure are very similar to many other peoples situation), the fact remains that if you come into Wales at the end of the five day test and release in England, you are breaking the rules of the Welsh Government that are set in place to protect its population. The facts that over 50% of the people of Wales have not had a second jab and that you have no idea whether the Pfizer jabs you have had have worked fully on you or not, means that you are putting yourselves and other people at risk.

[Optimistic Nick]

But why is Wales not satisfied with the day 5 release given all the other precautions having been observed? Merely in the interests of caution I suggest because the data is the same as in England and Wales have the best figures in the four home nations.

If we go we will arrive having proven we are not carrying the virus which is better than can be said for 63% of Wales' population that is not fully vaccinated; today's figures : https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-55855220 )

Exactly. You have spent money, and days of your lives, to prove that you don't carry the virus. You have clearly done more than the vast majority of the population of Wales to determine that you personally pose no threat. I don't really understand why you'd seek vindication from this messageboard for ignoring what appears to be an inexplicable deviation from UK govt policy as regards crossing a "border", but for what it's worth you have mine. I drove from England to Wales a few days ago. We take regular lateral flow tests in our house and they all came up negative, but it didn't occur to me to take any additional testing before I crossed the bridge. And in my personal experience, the observance of social distancing/mask wearing is no better in Cardiff than it is in London. I don't feel I owe the people of Wales any greater duty of care than the people of England. I obviously wear my mask everywhere etc and get tested (lateral flow) days before going in to town centres etc, but the idea that I up my game when I come to Cardiff is lunacy. And even my cautious approach is positively cavalier compared to yours, which is to prove that you are no threat; waste some time in a hotel; prove it again; and then leave.

Although I do think you over-estimate the relevance of vaccination vs testing at an individual level. Assuming that you are not a carrier because you've had the vaccine is dangerous; but two PCR tests spread over a few days demonstrating that you dont have it is about as conclusive as we will get. In other words: vis a vis Dave in Spott who presumably doesn't take a PCR test every few days, you pose a far lesser threat to the fine folk of this country.

[blue matt]

A rigorous debate overnight and thanks to all for that. Full disclosure on our thinking / planning to return home at this time; it‘s been suggested that we delay a while which is understandable but more than an irritation; the main purpose is to visit the in-laws, both in their nineties and who the missus hasn’t seen in 2 years. They’ve battled well in the last 18 months, have had 2 vaccinations each and are extremely safety-conscious themselves. Also, the missus works at a university here so her next opportunity for a visit is not until Xmas.

Full disclosure on our plans:-
• As mentioned we’ve had 2 x Pfizer vaccinations administered in April and May;
• We are required to travel with a negative test result less than 72 hours old;
• We’re flying Icelandair who require all travelers regardless of origin to show a certificate of full vaccination and also require masks to be worn throughout the flight. Iceland is on UK’s green list of countries;
• We are on the ground for a 90-miute layover in Reykjavik but do not leave airside;
• We arrive Heathrow and will go through UK immigration checks and procedures;
• We’ll have a rental car booked and will travel direct to our family hosts in England to where three-pack testing kits will have been sent to comply with days 2, 5 and 8 tests required by UK government.
• Our family hosts live in a rural area with low infection rates and have had one vaccination and possibly a second by the time we arrive.
• Assuming the required tests show negative we would be free to leave quarantine after day 5 and travel anywhere in England.

Now we get to the point of my original post – the different rules currently in place in England and Wales. After day 5 our plans will be flexible, circumstances and rules in both countries could well have changed for the better with a further relaxation of restrictions. Otherwise we could just stay in England or perhaps visit the old folks but stay outdoors and at distance.
But why is Wales not satisfied with the day 5 release given all the other precautions having been observed? Merely in the interests of caution I suggest because the data is the same as in England and Wales have the best figures in the four home nations.

If we go we will arrive having proven we are not carrying the virus which is better than can be said for 63% of Wales' population that is not fully vaccinated; today's figures : https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-55855220 )

you will have tested 3 times before you reach day 6 , its safe to say you will not have C19 by then

Go and see who you like in the UK Enjoy

[NYCBlue]

Can they? Hasn’t it just been proven that people who have had both can’t carry it, or 95% can’t for Pfizer?

Not to my knowledge.

[the other bob wilson]

The rules are there for a reason- to protect us. Drakeford said hed rather wait a few more weeks in which time, a greater percentage the population would have been vaccinated. His more cautious approach has been shown to be effective. Boris's less cautious approach has him ignore the scientists in the autumn who advised a lockdown, and him allowing a 10 day window for travellers to enter the country from India, bringing the Delta variant with them.
If you think its Wales's quarantine rules that are stupid, and not England's, then previous experience would suggest it's the other way around.

It's there throughout this thread isn't it, the certainty that the UK (English) Government have got it right and the Welsh Government have got it wrong, when, as a general rule, the opposite has applied throughout the length of the pandemic.

[lisvaneblue]

It's there throughout this thread isn't it, the certainty that the UK (English) Government have got it right and the Welsh Government have got it wrong, when, as a general rule, the opposite has applied throughout the length of the pandemic.

Im not a great fan of Drakeford as you know. He annoys me by making political capital whenever he can. Recently he was on air saying were had the best vaccination rates in the world!!

Lots of comments that we are doing better than England.

However the facts are that since the start of the pandemic the incidence per capita England 0.7% of the population, Wales 0.7%

Death rate from those getting Covid. England 2.8%, Wales 2.6%

So whatever 'the stupid quarantine rules in Wales'. there is nothing to choose between us and England when you measure outcomes

[lisvaneblue]

Im not a great fan of Drakeford as you know. He annoys me by making political capital whenever he can. Recently he was on air saying were had the best vaccination rates in the world!!

Lots of comments that we are doing better than England.

However the facts are that since the start of the pandemic the incidence per capita England 0.7% of the population, Wales 0.7%

Death rate from those getting Covid. England 2.8%, Wales 2.6%

So whatever 'the stupid quarantine rules in Wales'. there is nothing to choose between us and England when you measure outcomes

And I forgot to mention vaccines...England fully vaccinated 43% of population, Wales 39% population

[surge]

.....

Now we get to the point of my original post – the different rules currently in place in England and Wales.

....

i) I don't believe that was the point of the original post, unless you were working extremely hard not to have this thread moved to the politics section.

ii) Don't forget your quote in the OP: "England, however, also offers a day 5 quarantine release by purchasing an additional test and if that shows negative you've bought yourself out of quarantine (that's seems stupid but anyway...)"

iii) I still don't understand why you're not stating your intention to only come into close contact with as small a group of people as possible, totally avoid public transport and stay outside enjoying the Welsh summer. That would get vast majority on side - most of us want you, or people we know in your shoes, to come but want those people breaking the rules to show understanding of additional risk they're potentially creating and show understanding for all those locals who've sacrificed throughout the past year. At the moment all you're saying is why you shouldn't have to be mindful for locals which isn't great.

[delmbox]

Out of interest, what is your job when you are working in blood laboratories?

He's a cleaner at the lab and his family are doctors therefore he's the UK's foremost Covid expert

[blue matt]

As OP says, once I have proved that I am not a risk, what is the difference between me going to Wales and Joe Bloggs from Bristol or Brighton?

Joe Bloggs from Bristol or Brighton would have not had the 3 tests to prove he is not carrying the virus though, so you would be a safer bet to let into Wales

[blue matt]

Im not a great fan of Drakeford as you know. He annoys me by making political capital whenever he can. Recently he was on air saying were had the best vaccination rates in the world!!

Lots of comments that we are doing better than England.

However the facts are that since the start of the pandemic the incidence per capita England 0.7% of the population, Wales 0.7%

Death rate from those getting Covid. England 2.8%, Wales 2.6%

So whatever 'the stupid quarantine rules in Wales'. there is nothing to choose between us and England when you measure outcomes

Dont let facts get in the way of a CCMB Boris Bashing Session

[the other bob wilson]

Dont let facts get in the way of a CCMB Boris Bashing Session

What facts? The only one out of those quoted where England are doing better than Wales is in the double dose vaccines and, if I wanted to, I could argue that the second vaccine is a higher priority over the border because of the increased presence of the Indian variant following the decision to allow travel between the two countries in the spring.

What is clear is that the widespread assumption in this thread that the UK Government is dealing with the pandemic correctly and the Welsh Government isn’t is not backed up by stats produced by a self confessed Drakeford basher.

[the other bob wilson]

Im not a great fan of Drakeford as you know. He annoys me by making political capital whenever he can. Recently he was on air saying were had the best vaccination rates in the world!!

Lots of comments that we are doing better than England.

However the facts are that since the start of the pandemic the incidence per capita England 0.7% of the population, Wales 0.7%

Death rate from those getting Covid. England 2.8%, Wales 2.6%

So whatever 'the stupid quarantine rules in Wales'. there is nothing to choose between us and England when you measure outcomes

Although I’ve not bothered checking the claim, there’s been stories saying Wales has the best vaccine rates in the world for weeks hasn’t there? As for Drakeford making capital, that’s what politicians do isn’t it? You get Torys bringing the vaccine roll out into conversations about, for example, defence spending and you can understand it in a way because it is something that they’ve generally reckoned to have make a success of.

[The Lone Gunman]

Im not a great fan of Drakeford as you know. He annoys me by making political capital whenever he can.

A politician seeking to make political capital? Wow!!!

You'll be telling us footballers play football next....

[Igovernor]

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[lisvaneblue]

Although I’ve not bothered checking the claim, there’s been stories saying Wales has the best vaccine rates in the world for weeks hasn’t there? As for Drakeford making capital, that’s what politicians do isn’t it? You get Torys bringing the vaccine roll out into conversations about, for example, defence spending and you can understand it in a way because it is something that they’ve generally reckoned to have make a success of.

My OP by the way should say the incidence since the pandemic began is 7%( not0.7) and its the same for England and Wales

As far as vaccinations go I did mention those fully vaccinated ( 2 jabs) at 43% for England and 39% for Wales.

Yes, politicians do make political capital but how can he say we have the best rates in the world when we haven't.

The basic facts are that the incidence of Covid and the death rates England v Wales overall are virtually identical despite people arguing on this board that one is better than the other

[lisvaneblue]

A politician seeking to make political capital? Wow!!!

You'll be telling us footballers play football next....

It seems arguing with Drakeford is like reading a Software License Agreement. In the end you just click ' I Agree'

[splott parker]

It seems arguing with Drakeford is like reading a Software License Agreement. In the end you just click ' I Agree'

Which one of your lot would you prefer to see in charge in Wales?

[the other bob wilson]

My OP by the way should say the incidence since the pandemic began is 7%( not0.7) and its the same for England and Wales

As far as vaccinations go I did mention those fully vaccinated ( 2 jabs) at 43% for England and 39% for Wales.

Yes, politicians do make political capital but how can he say we have the best rates in the world when we haven't.

The basic facts are that the incidence of Covid and the death rates England v Wales overall are virtually identical despite people arguing on this board that one is better than the other

https://www.newstatesman.com/science...9-vaccine-race

[dml1954]

My OP by the way should say the incidence since the pandemic began is 7%( not0.7) and its the same for England and Wales

As far as vaccinations go I did mention those fully vaccinated ( 2 jabs) at 43% for England and 39% for Wales.

Yes, politicians do make political capital but how can he say we have the best rates in the world when we haven't.

The basic facts are that the incidence of Covid and the death rates England v Wales overall are virtually identical despite people arguing on this board that one is better than the other

Latest fully covid vaccinated figures are :- England 53%, Wales 49%. You seem to have under reported both. Wales has first vaccinated 86% of its adult population - one of the highest rates in the world and 10% more than England.

[The Bloop]

Latest fully covid vaccinated figures are :- England 53%, Wales 49%. You seem to have under reported both. Wales has first vaccinated 86% of its adult population - one of the highest rates in the world and 10% more than England.

Drakeford doesn't have any control over how many vaccines he gets. He does though know his supply numbers a few days in advance of what England get.
What he does have control over is the distribution and administering of what he does get, which potentially helped him to achieve the numbers and rates he has.

[lisvaneblue]

Drakeford doesn't have any control over how many vaccines he gets. He does though know his supply numbers a few days in advance of what England get.
What he does have control over is the distribution and administering of what he does get, which potentially helped him to achieve the numbers and rates he has.

Drakeford knows he will get the population share for Wales of the UK contract as agreed. The AZ vaccine goes through England then on to Wales. The Pfizer vaccine goes direct to Wales from Pfizer so Wales has direct contact with the manufacturer. The Moderna vaccine also goes direct to the Wales distributor, whoever that is, so agin direct contact with the manufacturer.

[lisvaneblue]

https://www.newstatesman.com/science...9-vaccine-race

No doubt the New Statesman is correct which is what Drakeford is quoting when he says we lead the world. Well done Wales.

But in completing the course ie 2 jabs we are lagging behind with 39% of population having had both jabs. Latest data from Wales Public Health shows 1,237,123 people having 2 doses 39% of our population of 3.15 m.

[lisvaneblue]

Which one of your lot would you prefer to see in charge in Wales?

I think I know what you are getting at by ' your lot' but it took some serious working out.

What I said in my OP was that despite Wales being cautious and Drakeford emphasising this approach, the overall incidence of Covid in Wales and the overall death rates are virtually identical to England. So is all this fuss with ' stupid quarantine rules in Wales' really worth it for the people of Wales. The outcome data says NO