Stupid quarantine rules in Wales...do I ignore it?

[The Lone Gunman]

By far and away the most sensible reply on this thread.

Let's be honest, this thread was a load of nonsense to begin with. Cowbridge Blue had already done his homework. He knows what the UK government guidance is with regard to foreign travel and what the rules and regulations are here in Wales, but he's stated in his thread title that he believes the Welsh quarantine rules are 'stupid' and his opening paragraph says he's looking to travel to the UK from a country on the amber list for leisure purposes. He's going to do what he wants regardless. The validation or otherwise of a bunch of anonymous strangers on a football message board isn't going to make a scrap of difference to the choices he makes and I'm guessing the same is true for you.

[surge]

By far and away the most sensible reply on this thread.

I'll admit that Ive had the exact same thought about doing the 5-day release in England then traveling to Wales...

Another saying the virus doesn't make distinctions cross borders...

If one nation has fewer ICU beds per 100,000 of the population than another then presumably pressure on the NHS is felt much more quickly. Borders can be important whether covid knows what it's doing or not.

My view is that if you're going to admit to breaking the covid rules of a nation then you should be able to tell us what extra steps you took to reduce the risk of it spreading. If you can't and your answer is that you followed the rules of another nation which would allow you to act as you wanted to then it's not great.

And presumably you know that you as a single individual probably aren't going to have a telling impact but if 999 single individuals came before then the risk increases.

[Optimistic Nick]

Another saying the virus doesn't make distinctions cross borders...

If one nation has fewer ICU beds per 100,000 of the population than another then presumably pressure on the NHS is felt much more quickly. Borders can be important whether covid knows what it's doing or not.

My view is that if you're going to admit to breaking the covid rules of a nation then you should be able to tell us what extra steps you took to reduce the risk of it spreading. If you can't and your answer is that you followed the rules of another nation which would allow you to act as you wanted to then it's not great.

And presumably you know that you as a single individual probably aren't going to have a telling impact but if 999 single individuals came before then the risk increases.

He's proved he doesn't have it and so cannot transmit it, through 2 negative PCR tests (assuming that's what his tests show: if one is positive presumably all bets are off anyway). The vaccine is a red herring here, it's the rigourous testing that's in point. What more do you think he can he do? And have you extended the same duty of care to the people of Wales whenever you leave the house?

[Des Parrot]

I too was interested in buying the Dante test kits, but then I saw they were named in this Guardian article.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...ed-kit-results

Might be worth paying a bit more to avoid the hassle that some of the labs are causing for people. I couldn't imagine the frustration of doing 10 days isolation and then having to do another 10 because your test wasn't processed.

That’s interesting, my kits from Dante arrived before I came home and I’ve received the results next day. I’ve previously used TestingForAll but they were sold out and the government recommended CTM (expensive) and Express Test based at CCS, they’ve all delivered on time

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Stay out of Wales

We don't like outsiders here !

[chrisp_1927]

Feel sorry for you mate. The rules now are becoming ever more ridiculous.

[chrisp_1927]

That’s alright, then. As long as you’re protected, don’t worry about anyone else and forget about the rules and regulations. Just do whatever you want. OK, so we may be experiencing a global pandemic, but you only live once. If you fancy flying over here for a holiday, just do it. I know we’re being advised not to travel abroad unless it’s absolutely essential, but what’s the worst that could happen? I mean, it’s not as if the virus spreads with people travelling from country to country, is it? Personally, I reckon we should just open the floodgates and be done with it.

To be fair, there is lots of research showing that pfizer jabs drastically decrease your chances of catching and passing onto others. He's also stated that he's visiting home, which is slightly different to just going on holiday

[FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead]

My view is that if you're going to admit to breaking the covid rules of a nation then you should be able to tell us what extra steps you took to reduce the risk of it spreading.

The three lab tests that would prove I do not have Covid and therefore am not a risk? The same extra steps that the UK government have themselves set out?

Your point about ICU beds is totally moot, too, because if I was carrying the virus I would not be allowed into England, let alone Wales. As OP says, once I have proved that I am not a risk, what is the difference between me going to Wales and Joe Bloggs from Bristol or Brighton?

[PontBlue]

Thanks to all who've contributed, I'm pleased not to have much in the way of negativity to my attitude which matches that described by xsnaggle above. The main point at issue is that England and Wales have different requirements to deal with the same problem. They are both looking at the same data but come out with different conclusions on how to handle with it. A number of people I've spoken to at home feel the First Minister has often taken a different, and less progressive, view from Boris just to demonstrate Wales can and will be different with the outcome being the same just a few weeks behind Westminster. If that's correct it must have been very frustrating at times for you all.

Particular thanks too to Des Parrott for recommending Dante for the testing kits, I'll be on to them and have them send what we need to our English destination.

I highlighted the risks rather than offered an opinion initially but if you are using this board to make a decision I think your attitude stinks and you should stay away until the rules allow as they are there to protect the people of Wales.

[The Bloop]

The rules are there for a reason- to protect us. Drakeford said hed rather wait a few more weeks in which time, a greater percentage the population would have been vaccinated. His more cautious approach has been shown to be effective. Boris's less cautious approach has him ignore the scientists in the autumn who advised a lockdown, and him allowing a 10 day window for travellers to enter the country from India, bringing the Delta variant with them.
If you think its Wales's quarantine rules that are stupid, and not England's, then previous experience would suggest it's the other way around.

[Cowbridge Blue]

A rigorous debate overnight and thanks to all for that. Full disclosure on our thinking / planning to return home at this time; it‘s been suggested that we delay a while which is understandable but more than an irritation; the main purpose is to visit the in-laws, both in their nineties and who the missus hasn’t seen in 2 years. They’ve battled well in the last 18 months, have had 2 vaccinations each and are extremely safety-conscious themselves. Also, the missus works at a university here so her next opportunity for a visit is not until Xmas.

Full disclosure on our plans:-
• As mentioned we’ve had 2 x Pfizer vaccinations administered in April and May;
• We are required to travel with a negative test result less than 72 hours old;
• We’re flying Icelandair who require all travelers regardless of origin to show a certificate of full vaccination and also require masks to be worn throughout the flight. Iceland is on UK’s green list of countries;
• We are on the ground for a 90-miute layover in Reykjavik but do not leave airside;
• We arrive Heathrow and will go through UK immigration checks and procedures;
• We’ll have a rental car booked and will travel direct to our family hosts in England to where three-pack testing kits will have been sent to comply with days 2, 5 and 8 tests required by UK government.
• Our family hosts live in a rural area with low infection rates and have had one vaccination and possibly a second by the time we arrive.
• Assuming the required tests show negative we would be free to leave quarantine after day 5 and travel anywhere in England.

Now we get to the point of my original post – the different rules currently in place in England and Wales. After day 5 our plans will be flexible, circumstances and rules in both countries could well have changed for the better with a further relaxation of restrictions. Otherwise we could just stay in England or perhaps visit the old folks but stay outdoors and at distance.
But why is Wales not satisfied with the day 5 release given all the other precautions having been observed? Merely in the interests of caution I suggest because the data is the same as in England and Wales have the best figures in the four home nations.

If we go we will arrive having proven we are not carrying the virus which is better than can be said for 63% of Wales' population that is not fully vaccinated; today's figures : https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-55855220 )

[dml1954]

A rigorous debate overnight and thanks to all for that. Full disclosure on our thinking / planning to return home at this time; it‘s been suggested that we delay a while which is understandable but more than an irritation; the main purpose is to visit the in-laws, both in their nineties and who the missus hasn’t seen in 2 years. They’ve battled well in the last 18 months, have had 2 vaccinations each and are extremely safety-conscious themselves. Also, the missus works at a university here so her next opportunity for a visit is not until Xmas.

Full disclosure on our plans:-
• As mentioned we’ve had 2 x Pfizer vaccinations administered in April and May;
• We are required to travel with a negative test result less than 72 hours old;
• We’re flying Icelandair who require all travelers regardless of origin to show a certificate of full vaccination and also require masks to be worn throughout the flight. Iceland is on UK’s green list of countries;
• We are on the ground for a 90-miute layover in Reykjavik but do not leave airside;
• We arrive Heathrow and will go through UK immigration checks and procedures;
• We’ll have a rental car booked and will travel direct to our family hosts in England to where three-pack testing kits will have been sent to comply with days 2, 5 and 8 tests required by UK government.
• Our family hosts live in a rural area with low infection rates and have had one vaccination and possibly a second by the time we arrive.
• Assuming the required tests show negative we would be free to leave quarantine after day 5 and travel anywhere in England.

Now we get to the point of my original post – the different rules currently in place in England and Wales. After day 5 our plans will be flexible, circumstances and rules in both countries could well have changed for the better with a further relaxation of restrictions. Otherwise we could just stay in England or perhaps visit the old folks but stay outdoors and at distance.
But why is Wales not satisfied with the day 5 release given all the other precautions having been observed? Merely in the interests of caution I suggest because the data is the same as in England and Wales have the best figures in the four home nations.

If we go we will arrive having proven we are not carrying the virus which is better than can be said for 63% of Wales' population that is not fully vaccinated; today's figures : https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-55855220 )

Sorry but no matter how you dress it up or explain your circumstances (which I am sure are very similar to many other peoples situation), the fact remains that if you come into Wales at the end of the five day test and release in England, you are breaking the rules of the Welsh Government that are set in place to protect its population. The facts that over 50% of the people of Wales have not had a second jab and that you have no idea whether the Pfizer jabs you have had have worked fully on you or not, means that you are putting yourselves and other people at risk.

[Optimistic Nick]

But why is Wales not satisfied with the day 5 release given all the other precautions having been observed? Merely in the interests of caution I suggest because the data is the same as in England and Wales have the best figures in the four home nations.

If we go we will arrive having proven we are not carrying the virus which is better than can be said for 63% of Wales' population that is not fully vaccinated; today's figures : https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-55855220 )

Exactly. You have spent money, and days of your lives, to prove that you don't carry the virus. You have clearly done more than the vast majority of the population of Wales to determine that you personally pose no threat. I don't really understand why you'd seek vindication from this messageboard for ignoring what appears to be an inexplicable deviation from UK govt policy as regards crossing a "border", but for what it's worth you have mine. I drove from England to Wales a few days ago. We take regular lateral flow tests in our house and they all came up negative, but it didn't occur to me to take any additional testing before I crossed the bridge. And in my personal experience, the observance of social distancing/mask wearing is no better in Cardiff than it is in London. I don't feel I owe the people of Wales any greater duty of care than the people of England. I obviously wear my mask everywhere etc and get tested (lateral flow) days before going in to town centres etc, but the idea that I up my game when I come to Cardiff is lunacy. And even my cautious approach is positively cavalier compared to yours, which is to prove that you are no threat; waste some time in a hotel; prove it again; and then leave.

Although I do think you over-estimate the relevance of vaccination vs testing at an individual level. Assuming that you are not a carrier because you've had the vaccine is dangerous; but two PCR tests spread over a few days demonstrating that you dont have it is about as conclusive as we will get. In other words: vis a vis Dave in Spott who presumably doesn't take a PCR test every few days, you pose a far lesser threat to the fine folk of this country.

[blue matt]

A rigorous debate overnight and thanks to all for that. Full disclosure on our thinking / planning to return home at this time; it‘s been suggested that we delay a while which is understandable but more than an irritation; the main purpose is to visit the in-laws, both in their nineties and who the missus hasn’t seen in 2 years. They’ve battled well in the last 18 months, have had 2 vaccinations each and are extremely safety-conscious themselves. Also, the missus works at a university here so her next opportunity for a visit is not until Xmas.

Full disclosure on our plans:-
• As mentioned we’ve had 2 x Pfizer vaccinations administered in April and May;
• We are required to travel with a negative test result less than 72 hours old;
• We’re flying Icelandair who require all travelers regardless of origin to show a certificate of full vaccination and also require masks to be worn throughout the flight. Iceland is on UK’s green list of countries;
• We are on the ground for a 90-miute layover in Reykjavik but do not leave airside;
• We arrive Heathrow and will go through UK immigration checks and procedures;
• We’ll have a rental car booked and will travel direct to our family hosts in England to where three-pack testing kits will have been sent to comply with days 2, 5 and 8 tests required by UK government.
• Our family hosts live in a rural area with low infection rates and have had one vaccination and possibly a second by the time we arrive.
• Assuming the required tests show negative we would be free to leave quarantine after day 5 and travel anywhere in England.

Now we get to the point of my original post – the different rules currently in place in England and Wales. After day 5 our plans will be flexible, circumstances and rules in both countries could well have changed for the better with a further relaxation of restrictions. Otherwise we could just stay in England or perhaps visit the old folks but stay outdoors and at distance.
But why is Wales not satisfied with the day 5 release given all the other precautions having been observed? Merely in the interests of caution I suggest because the data is the same as in England and Wales have the best figures in the four home nations.

If we go we will arrive having proven we are not carrying the virus which is better than can be said for 63% of Wales' population that is not fully vaccinated; today's figures : https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-55855220 )

you will have tested 3 times before you reach day 6 , its safe to say you will not have C19 by then

Go and see who you like in the UK Enjoy

[NYCBlue]

Can they? Hasn’t it just been proven that people who have had both can’t carry it, or 95% can’t for Pfizer?

Not to my knowledge.

[the other bob wilson]

The rules are there for a reason- to protect us. Drakeford said hed rather wait a few more weeks in which time, a greater percentage the population would have been vaccinated. His more cautious approach has been shown to be effective. Boris's less cautious approach has him ignore the scientists in the autumn who advised a lockdown, and him allowing a 10 day window for travellers to enter the country from India, bringing the Delta variant with them.
If you think its Wales's quarantine rules that are stupid, and not England's, then previous experience would suggest it's the other way around.

It's there throughout this thread isn't it, the certainty that the UK (English) Government have got it right and the Welsh Government have got it wrong, when, as a general rule, the opposite has applied throughout the length of the pandemic.

[lisvaneblue]

It's there throughout this thread isn't it, the certainty that the UK (English) Government have got it right and the Welsh Government have got it wrong, when, as a general rule, the opposite has applied throughout the length of the pandemic.

Im not a great fan of Drakeford as you know. He annoys me by making political capital whenever he can. Recently he was on air saying were had the best vaccination rates in the world!!

Lots of comments that we are doing better than England.

However the facts are that since the start of the pandemic the incidence per capita England 0.7% of the population, Wales 0.7%

Death rate from those getting Covid. England 2.8%, Wales 2.6%

So whatever 'the stupid quarantine rules in Wales'. there is nothing to choose between us and England when you measure outcomes

[lisvaneblue]

Im not a great fan of Drakeford as you know. He annoys me by making political capital whenever he can. Recently he was on air saying were had the best vaccination rates in the world!!

Lots of comments that we are doing better than England.

However the facts are that since the start of the pandemic the incidence per capita England 0.7% of the population, Wales 0.7%

Death rate from those getting Covid. England 2.8%, Wales 2.6%

So whatever 'the stupid quarantine rules in Wales'. there is nothing to choose between us and England when you measure outcomes

And I forgot to mention vaccines...England fully vaccinated 43% of population, Wales 39% population

[surge]

.....

Now we get to the point of my original post – the different rules currently in place in England and Wales.

....

i) I don't believe that was the point of the original post, unless you were working extremely hard not to have this thread moved to the politics section.

ii) Don't forget your quote in the OP: "England, however, also offers a day 5 quarantine release by purchasing an additional test and if that shows negative you've bought yourself out of quarantine (that's seems stupid but anyway...)"

iii) I still don't understand why you're not stating your intention to only come into close contact with as small a group of people as possible, totally avoid public transport and stay outside enjoying the Welsh summer. That would get vast majority on side - most of us want you, or people we know in your shoes, to come but want those people breaking the rules to show understanding of additional risk they're potentially creating and show understanding for all those locals who've sacrificed throughout the past year. At the moment all you're saying is why you shouldn't have to be mindful for locals which isn't great.

[delmbox]

Out of interest, what is your job when you are working in blood laboratories?

He's a cleaner at the lab and his family are doctors therefore he's the UK's foremost Covid expert