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Thread: Working from Home.

  1. #101

    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez View Post
    I know EXACTLY what you are saying, just because I have pointed out it is a load of nonsense doesn't mean I didn't get it.

    My point is that your opinions are baseless. What are they based on other than apparent fear? Today I provided an example of a business that started 2 years ago (pre-pandemic) and is valued at £4bn with 500 employees. 500 jobs created from remote working. You could, I suggest, come up with a counter-example.

    You further demonstrate your lack of vision with the comment "Home is home and should stay that way". Why? Why should it stay that way? My mortgage is £1000 a month. If I was working in an office, I would essentially be using it as a place to sleep, eat and watch tele for an hour or two a week. Now that I am working remotely, I am getting much more value from my home. I am getting to spend more time with my kids. I am spending more time with family. I can start work at 5am if I like, or at 5pm if I like. Maybe this is beyond your comprehension because you, maybe, are one of those workers who is put in a box and stays there from 16-65.
    It's your employer who's getting good value - you just posted a link to an example which exemplifies that perfectly !

  2. #102

    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    "retired ? " That's so 20th Century..
    Are you in full-time employment? If not, when did you cease to be in full-time employment?

  3. #103

    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    It's your employer who's getting good value - you just posted a link to an example which exemplifies that perfectly !
    Ok, taking your logic to its conclusion. If my employer is getting good value (and on the wages they pay me, I have no complaints) why is my job now at risk?

  4. #104
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    this coming from an accountant?
    The sexiest profession

  5. #105

    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez View Post
    To be fair, that is one drawback.
    If you were working in my office you'd think it a bonus!

  6. #106
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    The sexiest profession

  7. #107

    Re: Working from Home.

    What's more, as some have concurred, home is home, and should stay that way. "Meeting" in Cloud etc., isn't "Meeting". No more than you're 'meeting' Gary Lineker when the football's on..
    I think this is your argument in a nutshell.

    "Home should stay as home". Why?

    "Meeting in Cloud". You clearly have no idea what a meeting in Skype/Teams/Zoom is do you? "Oh yes I do" I can hear you mutter but your next comment proves you don't.

    "isn't "Meeting". No more than you're 'meeting' Gary Lineker when the football's on.." What a terrible analogy. Putting the TV on and watching football is a one-way communication. An online meeting is not.

    I would love to know how you would propose that a multi-national organisation conducts meetings across countries.

    Your employee "Quick everyone, we need to have a chat about this new project with our software developers in India".
    Quiet Monkfish "How long do we need".
    Your employee "An hour should cover it up. I'll set up a Skype meeting now".
    Quiet Monkfish "Are you mad? That is not a meeting, we need to see the whites of their eyes. I'm booking a flight for four of us to go there"
    Your employee "For an hour?"
    Quiet Monkfish "Yes, think of it this way. If we don't go there, they'll take our bloody jobs".

    Meeting in India concludes.... further actions
    Indian developer "Apologies that we were 5 minutes late to the meeting, and it was great to hear all about your long trip for 25 minutes. We have 5 minutes left, I propose we go away and think about the requirements and set up another meeting in 2 days. I will send the Skype invites now"
    Quiet Monkfish "Are you mad? A meeting on a TV screen. This isn't Buck Rogers, and this isn't the 25th century son. We'll come back"
    Indian developer "If you are sure, I can provide you with a website to book additional flights"
    Quiet Monkfish "Are you mad? A website by God! I'll call Red Dragon travel as soon as I get back home tomorrow".
    Your Employee "Boss, are you sure, we have wasted 2 days getting here, and we can easily do this remotely. I suggest I work from home when I get back so that I can use the extra time to catch up on work I should have been doing yesterday and today".
    Quiet Monkfish "Home is home. A few people concur with that, so it is clearly correct. I'll see you in the office at 9am. We can have a meeting then to discuss the meeting we had today, and I'll arrange a secondary meeting to discuss the next meeting we will be flying to in 2 days time. I see your workload is increasing, I'll employ extra people. That is clearly the answer here".

  8. #108

    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez View Post
    Ok, taking your logic to its conclusion. If my employer is getting good value (and on the wages they pay me, I have no complaints) why is my job now at risk?
    Because they can get better value from someone doing the same job remotely from a country with lower cost of living. That has always been a risk of course, but more companies are aware of the possibility due to the general success of WFH during lockdown.

  9. #109

    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick View Post
    Because they can get better value from someone doing the same job remotely from a country with lower cost of living. That has always been a risk of course, but more companies are aware of the possibility due to the general success of WFH during lockdown.
    I'm seeing the opposite, jobs coming to the UK because they don't have to pay as much for skilled engineers

  10. #110

    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick View Post
    Because they can get better value from someone doing the same job remotely from a country with lower cost of living. That has always been a risk of course, but more companies are aware of the possibility due to the general success of WFH during lockdown.
    You are conveniently forgetting there is a risk factor to shipping operations overseas. There are also risks to data security. Page 7 we're on, and not yet one confirmed case of a company shifting operations overseas because of the success of remote working. The success story I linked in was one I stumbled across on the BBC yesterday. Anecdotally, I have found that job opportunities have rarely been better for me than they are now, and my field of opportunity is significantly wider as relocation is not a requirement anymore.

  11. #111

    Re: Working from Home.

    My guess is that Monkfish has been retired for some time and is hopelessly out of touch with modern working environments. Bear in mind that around this time last year he was predicting that nobody but public sector workers would still have jobs by the end of 2020 due to the pandemic. He also said he believed there was no way football could resume while Covid-19 was rife.

    He's a bit of an old misery guts if the truth be told.

  12. #112

    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez View Post
    Ok, taking your logic to its conclusion. If my employer is getting good value (and on the wages they pay me, I have no complaints) why is my job now at risk?
    It's incredible. You still haven't grasped this. Nobody is saying your job's at risk, but it's more likely to go elsewhere if you are WFH as opposed to being in an office environment. As for getting good value, your employer is getting your 'input' - whatever that is - completely free of rent, rates, utility costs, travel costs, maintenance costs, etc.. All that is being paid by YOU, as a percentage of your £1000 per month mortgage.

  13. #113

    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    My guess is that Monkfish has been retired for some time and is hopelessly out of touch with modern working environments. Bear in mind that around this time last year he was predicting that nobody but public sector workers would still have jobs by the end of 2020 due to the pandemic. He also said he believed there was no way football could resume while Covid-19 was rife.

    He's a bit of an old misery guts if the truth be told.
    Clearly a misery guts but the points are valid. Its the same thing in every walk of life, things change, goalposts move. We'll have a mass change to work from home, for a time, then a rebound and then eventually it'll sit somewhere in the middle. There'll also be a issue when it comes to people retiring as it's clearly much harder to train and get experience from home. If jobs do flow abroad, it wont be long until the Government tax this differently.

    Automation probably has more of a risk of losing your job than WFH does.

    I would agree with him that the football if following the rules of the public shouldn't on paper go ahead but it does - clearly shows we're not all carrying the same burdens.

  14. #114

    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    It's incredible. You still haven't grasped this. Nobody is saying your job's at risk, but it's more likely to go elsewhere if you are WFH as opposed to being in an office environment. As for getting good value, your employer is getting your 'input' - whatever that is - completely free of rent, rates, utility costs, travel costs, maintenance costs, etc.. All that is being paid by YOU, as a percentage of your £1000 per month mortgage.
    Are you retired though?

  15. #115

    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by delmbox View Post
    Are you retired though?
    Or just resting?

  16. #116

    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    It's incredible. You still haven't grasped this. Nobody is saying your job's at risk, but it's more likely to go elsewhere if you are WFH as opposed to being in an office environment. As for getting good value, your employer is getting your 'input' - whatever that is - completely free of rent, rates, utility costs, travel costs, maintenance costs, etc.. All that is being paid by YOU, as a percentage of your £1000 per month mortgage.
    The incredible thing is that you staunchly stick to that despite overwhelming evidence that
    you haven't got the foggiest when it comes to online meetings (akin to watching the tv),
    you haven't got an appreciation that online meetings have been commonplace for years,
    a number of people have pointed out how remote working has increased their job opportunities,
    a story (that happened to be in the news yesterday) of a company that is 100% remote working employing 500 people and valued at £4bn
    A lack of evidence of jobs going the other way
    A lack of understanding that remote working is not a new concept
    A lack of understanding that businesses seek to get value from resources (i.e. employees). If a company pays person x £40,000 a year, it's because person x generates more than £40,000 a year to the business.
    That employing people in an office is actually more expensive than having them work remotely (ergo, using your logic, office work increases the risk of a job going elsewhere). You seem to finally be grasping this one though.
    A lack of understanding on basic business practices and the inherent risks and costs to moving overseas


    Remote working isn't for everyone. I haven't claimed it is. But it is a game changer in more positive ways than negative. Now, you can argue against this statement with woolly, meaningless comments like "home is home". But, for an astute person, there are increasing opportunities. The nonsense about our jobs being more likely to move overseas is based on very little I am afraid.

    By the way, pre remote working I was spending £40 a week on fuel (my cost), I was having to service the car twice a year, new tyres far too regular, brakes, and essentially a new car every 3-4 years. Since working from home, I don't spend £40 on fuel, my car is serviced annually, it is 10 years old, it has barely 60,000 miles on the clock. I'm not sure that the 30 watts per hour of charging my laptop is going to be that expensive.

  17. #117

    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    Clearly a misery guts but the points are valid. Its the same thing in every walk of life, things change, goalposts move. We'll have a mass change to work from home, for a time, then a rebound and then eventually it'll sit somewhere in the middle. There'll also be a issue when it comes to people retiring as it's clearly much harder to train and get experience from home. If jobs do flow abroad, it wont be long until the Government tax this differently.

    Automation probably has more of a risk of losing your job than WFH does.

    I would agree with him that the football if following the rules of the public shouldn't on paper go ahead but it does - clearly shows we're not all carrying the same burdens.
    Spot on about automation and add to that AI, and the regions that will get hit first are the ones where our call centres are based. Some of the AI technology being developed is frighteningly brilliant.

  18. #118

    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    The sexiest profession
    Back when 'Bob The Builder' was a thing, plenty of milf taking their little un's to school would stop and chat while i emptied my mixer...... us construction workers were like rock stars during that period

  19. #119

    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez View Post
    You are conveniently forgetting there is a risk factor to shipping operations overseas. There are also risks to data security. Page 7 we're on, and not yet one confirmed case of a company shifting operations overseas because of the success of remote working. The success story I linked in was one I stumbled across on the BBC yesterday. Anecdotally, I have found that job opportunities have rarely been better for me than they are now, and my field of opportunity is significantly wider as relocation is not a requirement anymore.
    No I am not. I make my living from talking about parts of it and have mentioned some in this thread.

    In my field this was already happening, but I have certainly seen groups accelerate offshoring of roles due to the investment they've had to make to get home working set up.

    I am not saying that this is uniform and that there isn't traffic coming the other way too or even that the net effect is loss of jobs. But it is correct to say that some people may find that jobs in their sector do move out as groups reconsider the idea that they need a UK workforce due to the success of (or investment in) remote working over the last year or so.

  20. #120

    Re: Working from Home.

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    In the 90's we saw the almost complete export of call centres to countries with much lower wage costs.
    No we didn't. In 1995, there were approximately 150,00 people employed as call centre agents in the UK. By 2003, the figure was 500,000 (source: Department of Trade and Industry).

  21. #121

    Re: Working from Home.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57693065

    Asda are moving with the times.

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