In trouble again!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57960977
Why does he get jobs?
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In trouble again!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57960977
Why does he get jobs?
Because he's white. If anyone can say, truthfully that if he was black, with his charge sheet (Google it) that he would be considered for managerial roles, then they must be sniffing glue. Nobody knows whether he's guilty of this latest crime, but trouble seems to follow him around.
Sorry Tuerto can't agree with you there mate. His colour has nothing to do with why he keeps getting jobs. He gets them mainly because he was a high profile player and his employers believe he will be able to use that experience of top level football to improve their clubs. Because of this they seem quite happy to ignore his rather dubious past.
Sol Campbell, one of the greatest central defenders to come out of England, world class at one point, ahead of the game by 15 years, got the Macclesfield gig on his 4th attempt at interview process. Macclesfield couldn't even afford a box of tea bags at the time. Could you imagine Steve Bruce, Bryan Robson, John Terry, Frank lampard, Steven Gerrard, Paul Merson, Terry butcher, Gareth Southgate, Gary Neville, Phil Neville, etc, starting at the same level? Neither can I, because they didn't. There's still a mis trust towards black people in positions of power.Originally Posted by Moodybluebird
Sol Campbell was never world class at any point in his career
You are very wrong.
Of course he was. Come on.
Sol Campbell was a good player, probably one of the best in this country at for a time.
In world terms, I'm not so sure.
IMHO, to be considered world class, you'd have to have something to show for it.
He never won the Champions League, won nothing at international level (tho he did make team of the tournament a couple of times) but I don't remember him ever being nominated for the Balon d'or.
If you listen to him speaking mind you, he was the GOAT, such an air of superiority, right up there with Garth Crooks
Re the OP, bloke's an arsehole.
Amongst other things the guy won 2 Premier Leagues (including the unbeaten season), 3 FA Cups, got to the Champions League Final (and scored) and was in the team of the tournament at the 2002 World Cup and the 2004 Euro's. I don't know what his personality's like but to say he wasn't world class is ridiculousSol Campbell was a good player, probably one of the best in this country at for a time.
In world terms, I'm not so sure.
IMHO, to be considered world class, you'd have to have something to show for it.
He never won the Champions League, won nothing at international level (tho he did make team of the tournament a couple of times) but I don't remember him ever being nominated for the Balon d'or.
If you listen to him speaking mind you, he was the GOAT, such an air of superiority, right up there with Garth Crooks
Re the OP, bloke's an arsehole.
I agree that there was a period of time where Sol was world class, appreciate some here don’t think so, but I do.
However the reason he’s not got the jobs you think he deserves is not because he is black, he’s just not a very credible candidate.
Why great players should automatically become great managers is a view that always mystifies me, should great carpenters become great managers of carpenters? Just because they understand what carpenters do, doesn’t make them great managers - most of us can relate to a time where we have worked for someone who understands the mechanics of a role, but they are not great managers - it’s a different skill set.
Sol talks gibberish and does not come across well in the media at all. Two contemporaries of his, off the top of my head that could have made it would be Mark Bright & Les Ferdinand, but they chose ‘upstairs’ roles.
Don’t always agree with Hartley, but I don’t think there has ever been a better time to be a black manager, if that’s what you want and your credible.
You're missing my point, or maybe i didn't explain myself very well, although i appreciate the reply. Sol Campbell is just an example. He may well be a shit manager, coach, not very personable etc. That hasn't stopped plenty of ex top class white players getting job after job though. I would've thought that plenty of ex black players would love the luxury or continuous failure that seems to be the privilege of plenty of ex white footballers.
Not like Tuerto to completely derail and change the course of the thread screaming “racism” but first reply, wow, that’s got to be seen as some record, even for him.
Barton is a scumbag. A leopard that can’t change his spots no matter how many philosophy books he reads, or turtle necks he wears.
You may be right, but a lot of managers are only interested in what they do between 3 o’clock and a quarter to 5 on a Saturday afternoon.Sean Dyche saw something in him, and when Burnley got promoted back to the Premier League, Barton was the main reason why it happened.
Absolutely. I don’t think anyone is questioning his influence on the pitch, especially as a senior player in the back end of his career.
However, as a manager there comes greater responsibility and especially in this day and age of cancel culture there are certain things that can’t be overlooked just because you’re doing the business on the field. If he is found guilty of wife beating then I expect his managerial career to be over.
He’s spent the last 5 years or so reinventing himself as some kind intellect, who has matured and learned from his past indiscretions. A new improved Joey Barton.
However, if the allegations are correct then it will add weight to the argument that a leopard can’t change his spots and the only person he’s been fooling is himself.
But tuerto they didn't say, "Oh look he's white, we'll give him the job"
I understand what you say about a black would be manager with the same criminal record not getting the job, but many white would be managers without his high level experience wouldn't get the job either
He’s had 2 managerial jobs. One at Fleetwood where he did ok, well enough to warrant Bristol Rovers taking a chance on him.
I imagine he interviews well, he’s very articulate, blows his own trumpet well and probably with his spectacles and philosophical quotes manages to convince people he’s matured and a changed man.
Many white men with his experience and then some get overlooked too. Tony Adams and Teddy Sheringham started in the lower leagues and can’t get jobs. Harry Kewell, Paul Scholes. John Terry is having to cut his teeth as an assistant coach first. Gerrard managed Liverpool youth teams before Rangers took a punt on him. Sol Campbell being touted as some kind of football visionary who’s wonderful managerial talent is being held back because he’s black is fantasy that lives in Tuertos head.
You pulling me, yet you're all over this thread countering me again. Why aren't black footballers getting the same opportunities that their white counterparts are getting? You never seem to answer the question, just skirt around it throwing your usual shitty insults. If you do think that I:m wrong, then articulate it.
You trying to make out Sol Campbell to be some kind of Johan Cruyff football visionary that the game is being deprived of because of the colour of his skin is off the wall odd, even by your standards. You can’t wait to derail any managerial thread with your poor old Sol, being treated unfairly because he’s a black man sob story and it’s tedious as ****.
So a few players started at a higher level which you’ve got a bee in your bonnet about. I’ve already given you many examples of white players on his level, who had to start down on a level he thought was beneath him.
Patrick Vieira has just been given the Palace job without any lower league experience but haven’t heard a peep from you on that. Thierry Henry got given the Monaco job because of his name. Chris Powell and Chris Hughton went straight in at Championship level in fact Hughton went in at PL level as a caretaker manager for Spurs and Newcastle. Darren Moore is another who has shown he wanted to be a manager and been given opportunities.
Ledley King is assistant manager at Spurs. No different to John Terry being assistant manager at Aston Villa.
As for other opportunities there’s never been a better time for black ex footballers to get media work. Darren Bent got his own radio show, Alex Scott is presenting football focus and Jermaine Jenas is even presenting the One Show!!
I'm making a comparison between sol and his contemporaries, **** me, it's like pulling teeth, can't you grasp that? Some of them (who got decent managerial jobs) who were top class players as well. Sol Campbell applied for plenty of jobs but had to settle for a club that were on the brink of going out of the league, yet, he had his coaching badges and a top class career behind him, much like gerrard, lampard, Robson etc. None of them started at that level, they were trusted.
Things are changing, especially in media, and that's great. It isn't in football though, as it isn't at managerial level in most industries. When black footballers broke onto the scene, there was a mis trust. Could they handle the cold weather, the physicality of the game, they were only good as skilfull bit part players, they were quick, not to be trusted in positions of influence, etc. The racists were saying those things.
Now that stigma has been banished, the next one is trust in positions of power and decision making. That's my opinion and belief.
I think Alex Scott and Jermaine Jenas are probably better off on the One Show, as it matches their presenting talents.
As for Joey Barton, he is innocent at this stage, until found otherwise. I am surprised his name has been released by the Police.
Because there's fewer black players... what sort of question is that? If you look at the previous generation the percentage of black players is much smaller than it is today, if those players decided not to go into coaching (spoiler, most players regardless of race don't bother with this) then you have a small pool of black coaches to choose from. You are also purposely ignoring Sol's attempt at politics after he retired (perhaps you knew this but seemingly forget to mention it cause it weakens your point). He only started to show an interest in coaching in 2017, 5 years after he retired, no shit he didn't walk into a job when he's so far off the pace.
David James had a great take on this which doesn't boil down to your simplistic "white people get jobs and black people don't". I suggest you read this before you try and derail more threads about this exact topic again
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features...w-bame-coaches
Black footballers make up to 35% of all footballers in the professional game, that doesn't transmit to management appointments, not even close. Why is that? This isn't a football problem either. Black people are not represented in managerial roles or at boardroom level. You reckon that there's no racism at play?
Are you suggesting that black people in whatever profession should have management or boardroom positions in proportion to their numbers in the said industry, regardless of their ability? That percentages are more important than ability?
To me that sounds like a recipe for failure.
People should be given positions based on their ability, that is true. Do you think black people are less able to be in boardrooms? I mean, is it not a bit odd that there are:
- No black Chairmen
- No Black CEOs
- No black CFOs
in any of the top 100 companies in the UK?
Also, isn't it a bit odd that only 3.4% of these positions are held by ethnic minorities in 2021. The same percentage as 2014?
Yes, people should be picked on ability but surely you would expect to see a similar percentage of black people in dugouts as you see on a pitch? Similarly, you would expect to see a similar percentage of black people in boardrooms as you see on the payroll. I mean, that isn't going for percentages, but it's striking that the percentages are vastly different at top levels of business compared to the rest of the business isn't it? Maybe it isn't striking to you?
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