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Thread: Ben Stokes...

  1. #1

    Ben Stokes...

    Taking a break from cricket.

    No word from Piers Morgan yet, strange?

  2. #2

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    The usual digs about mental toughness will carry no weight this time because the pressure Stokes was under in that Ashes test at Headlingley and the World Cup Final makes that sound daft. He’s been subdued this season after losing his father in the winter and he dropped a very easy catch by his standards in his last Hundred game which led to him getting a lot of stick from the crowd.

    I’ve been watching a lot of the old Big Match programmes from the 70s and 80s lately and they really are an eye opener when you compare, say, how a player from the away side is treated when they go over to take a corner. Forty years ago, players had to face the odd comment from the opposing fans when were preparing to take a corner, but it was often good natured. These days however, they get dog’s abuse and genuine hate from what seems about half of those close by them - it seems we’ve changed a lot since the 70s and 80s and yet the expectation is that players should carry on as they always did.

    Jonathan Agnew was interviewed this morning about Stokes and said he expects more withdrawals ahead from the Ashes tour in the winter - in fact, he thought there was a chance it will be cancelled. When you think what men and women are going through at the moment just to compete in their chosen sports and combine it with the inevitable reappraisals that are going on and will go on in response to the Pandemic, I don’t think it is surprising at all that what seems to be a growing number of sportsmen and women are asking whether they want to go through all of that while being separated from their family - England’s cricketers in Australia will get something similar to those away players taking a corner I was talking about as well.

    A media which builds hypes up sn event one weekend and then forgets about it within a day as they move on to the next “most important” encounter to be played in a weeks time and a fan base that labels a mid table League Two game in September as “huge” all plays a part in putting the modern day game player under intense pressure - no wonder some are saying “I’ve had enough of this”.

  3. #3

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordi Culé View Post
    Taking a break from cricket.

    No word from Piers Morgan yet, strange?
    He's commented now. He’s made out Stokes a hero because he pulled out before the game and not during. The mans a father so you’d think he’d have some empathy with young athletes and what they go through. Coming from someone who cried and walked out when he received mild criticism live on air. Vile individual.

  4. #4

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    The usual digs about mental toughness will carry no weight this time because the pressure Stokes was under in that Ashes test at Headlingley and the World Cup Final makes that sound daft. He’s been subdued this season after losing his father in the winter and he dropped a very easy catch by his standards in his last Hundred game which led to him getting a lot of stick from the crowd.

    I’ve been watching a lot of the old Big Match programmes from the 70s and 80s lately and they really are an eye opener when you compare, say, how a player from the away side is treated when they go over to take a corner. Forty years ago, players had to face the odd comment from the opposing fans when were preparing to take a corner, but it was often good natured. These days however, they get dog’s abuse and genuine hate from what seems about half of those close by them - it seems we’ve changed a lot since the 70s and 80s and yet the expectation is that players should carry on as they always did.

    Jonathan Agnew was interviewed this morning about Stokes and said he expects more withdrawals ahead from the Ashes tour in the winter - in fact, he thought there was a chance it will be cancelled. When you think what men and women are going through at the moment just to compete in their chosen sports and combine it with the inevitable reappraisals that are going on and will go on in response to the Pandemic, I don’t think it is surprising at all that what seems to be a growing number of sportsmen and women are asking whether they want to go through all of that while being separated from their family - England’s cricketers in Australia will get something similar to those away players taking a corner I was talking about as well.

    A media which builds hypes up sn event one weekend and then forgets about it within a day as they move on to the next “most important” encounter to be played in a weeks time and a fan base that labels a mid table League Two game in September as “huge” all plays a part in putting the modern day game player under intense pressure - no wonder some are saying “I’ve had enough of this”.
    I remember Marcus Trescothick suffering with depression and retiring from international cricket permanently. I also remember Geoff Boycott talking about the stresses that international cricketers faced mentally.

    I’m just waiting for Piers expert view on this so I can subscribe to his opinion.

    Agree with you about the differences in the crowd hostility shown towards players.

  5. #5

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    If anyone in the press has a pop at stokes or Biles for taking a break they should be removed from their job in my opinion. It's well known what they've been through in the recent past.

    I wonder if there was an element of stokes throwing himself back into the cricket in the aftermath of losing his dad, maybe it's all catching up with him now. Feel for him, can't ever be nice to lose a parent. But to then have to spend so much time in quarantine alone with your thoughts in the aftermath must make it even harder to cope with mentally.

    Never quite seen the fuss in stokes the player myself, but apart from a couple of high profile mistakes he's always seemed like a well grounded decent bloke.

  6. #6

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp_1927 View Post
    If anyone in the press has a pop at stokes or Biles for taking a break they should be removed from their job in my opinion. It's well known what they've been through in the recent past.

    I wonder if there was an element of stokes throwing himself back into the cricket in the aftermath of losing his dad, maybe it's all catching up with him now. Feel for him, can't ever be nice to lose a parent. But to then have to spend so much time in quarantine alone with your thoughts in the aftermath must make it even harder to cope with mentally.

    Never quite seen the fuss in stokes the player myself, but apart from a couple of high profile mistakes he's always seemed like a well grounded decent bloke.
    Ben Stokes is a phenomenal player when he is on his game and his head is right.
    The way he carried his team in the world cup, particularly the final, typifies the man.

    Wasn't really a fan of him to be perfectly honest but that world cup, in particular that final innings where he took the responsibility and guided his partners through the run chase, for me puts him among the best players in the world.

    I concur with the above posts, the game is completely different to say the 70's and 80's where there was usually "banter" between player and supporter (Headingly aside of course!).
    Nowadays, particularly with the quick forms of cricket being introduced and day/night games allowing people to attend after work, it is very much like a football match with full on barracking and abuse pretty much the norm, in international cricket anyway.

    Back to the OP, it takes a brave person to do what Ben Stokes has done, especially if you are less well known.
    As Kevin Pietersen said the other day, if you don't deal with the different pressures that come with top class sport then somebody else will.
    This is the harsh reality.

    Personally I hope this is a minor blip in Stokes's career as I think he has the potential to be one of the greats.

  7. #7

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    Ben Stokes is a phenomenal player when he is on his game and his head is right.
    The way he carried his team in the world cup, particularly the final, typifies the man.

    Wasn't really a fan of him to be perfectly honest but that world cup, in particular that final innings where he took the responsibility and guided his partners through the run chase, for me puts him among the best players in the world.

    I concur with the above posts, the game is completely different to say the 70's and 80's where there was usually "banter" between player and supporter (Headingly aside of course!).
    Nowadays, particularly with the quick forms of cricket being introduced and day/night games allowing people to attend after work, it is very much like a football match with full on barracking and abuse pretty much the norm, in international cricket anyway.

    Back to the OP, it takes a brave person to do what Ben Stokes has done, especially if you are less well known.
    As Kevin Pietersen said the other day, if you don't deal with the different pressures that come with top class sport then somebody else will.
    This is the harsh reality.

    Personally I hope this is a minor blip in Stokes's career as I think he has the potential to be one of the greats.
    Fully agree with you about the bravery shown by Ben Stokes.

    My dig at Piers Morgan is due to the fact he had no trouble stating an opinion on Biles or Osaka.

  8. #8

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    we all probably know someone who looked like they could play professional sport...but couldn't hack it in front of a big crowd.
    that's the difference..bottle...once that's gone you move down a notch...or get out completely

  9. #9

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    I think it's great mental health has taken a front seat in conversations over the last few years and really feel for those with real mental health issues. It's can't help but feel some people use it as a go to these days which is unfair on those who really need help.

  10. #10

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordi Culé View Post
    Fully agree with you about the bravery shown by Ben Stokes.

    My dig at Piers Morgan is due to the fact he had no trouble stating an opinion on Biles or Osaka.
    Why do you say its brave?
    If he needs to take time out then that's what he needs to do but I can't see where bravery comes into it?

  11. #11

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    Quote Originally Posted by willo1927 View Post
    Why do you say its brave?
    If he needs to take time out then that's what he needs to do but I can't see where bravery comes into it?
    Telling millions of people that you're struggling with your mental health, which still has a stigma attached to it, is pretty ballsy

  12. #12

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    Quote Originally Posted by delmbox View Post
    Telling millions of people that you're struggling with your mental health, which still has a stigma attached to it, is pretty ballsy
    But not what I call brave.
    Putting your life on the line to save others is brave.
    Not playing a few cricket matches is completely different
    I understand he feels he needs a break and I'm not criticising him for that if that's what he needs then I wish him well.
    But are you comparing this to a fireman rushing into a burning house to save kids or a soldier on the front line?

  13. #13

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    Quote Originally Posted by willo1927 View Post
    But not what I call brave.
    Putting your life on the line to save others is brave.
    Not playing a few cricket matches is completely different
    I understand he feels he needs a break and I'm not criticising him for that if that's what he needs then I wish him well.
    But are you comparing this to a fireman rushing into a burning house to save kids or a soldier on the front line?
    So, you have a different definition of brave to him then, fine.

  14. #14

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    Quote Originally Posted by willo1927 View Post
    But are you comparing this to a fireman rushing into a burning house to save kids or a soldier on the front line?
    Why do I need to compare it to anything?

  15. #15

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    Quote Originally Posted by delmbox View Post
    Why do I need to compare it to anything?
    How do you define brave?

  16. #16

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    Quote Originally Posted by willo1927 View Post
    How do you define brave?
    I think bravery's too complicated a thing to quantify simplistically with "firemen and soldiers are the bravest because they do things they might die doing"

    It's all relative to the situation.

    Who's braver -the person who's not scared of doing something or the person who's absolutely terrified of doing it but does it anyway?

    A fireman might feel ok about running into a burning building but be too scared to tell his friends that he's depressed.

    A 15 year old boy coming out to his family and friends not knowing if they'll accept him or shun him? Brave as f**k. Is it the same kind of bravery as a soldier running into a gunfight to grab his injured mate? Of course not.

    There isn't a sliding scale of bravery, you don't have to try and simplify everything into simple black and white answers.

  17. #17

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    Quote Originally Posted by delmbox View Post
    I think bravery's too complicated a thing to quantify simplistically with "firemen and soldiers are the bravest because they do things they might die doing"

    It's all relative to the situation.

    Who's braver -the person who's not scared of doing something or the person who's absolutely terrified of doing it but does it anyway?

    A fireman might feel ok about running into a burning building but be too scared to tell his friends that he's depressed.

    A 15 year old boy coming out to his family and friends not knowing if they'll accept him or shun him? Brave as f**k. Is it the same kind of bravery as a soldier running into a gunfight to grab his injured mate? Of course not.

    There isn't a sliding scale of bravery, you don't have to try and simplify everything into simple black and white answers.
    We beg to differ

  18. #18

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    Quote Originally Posted by delmbox View Post
    I think bravery's too complicated a thing to quantify simplistically with "firemen and soldiers are the bravest because they do things they might die doing"

    It's all relative to the situation.

    Who's braver -the person who's not scared of doing something or the person who's absolutely terrified of doing it but does it anyway?

    A fireman might feel ok about running into a burning building but be too scared to tell his friends that he's depressed.

    A 15 year old boy coming out to his family and friends not knowing if they'll accept him or shun him? Brave as f**k. Is it the same kind of bravery as a soldier running into a gunfight to grab his injured mate? Of course not.

    There isn't a sliding scale of bravery, you don't have to try and simplify everything into simple black and white answers.
    I love this explanation and totally agree. The term bravery has always been fluid for these very reasons.

  19. #19

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    It’s absolutely great that we have got to this point where we can accept his decision.
    Brave or not is by the by I guess.

    The fact that he’s not going to be considered to be weird is the big victory for me.

    I’ve struggled pretty heavily with my mental health since 1991.
    Mass Anxiety and thinking you are going mad more so than depression, although every morning you woke up during a spell was “Oh ****, back on again”

    I had episodes lasting from 2 weeks (if I could conquer them) to 8 months which ended up getting progressively better.

    From 1991 to 2012 these would occur at least once every 2 years.
    The biggest worry was the dread of them returning...horrible trying to convince yourself you will be ok, when you know that it’s overcome you before.

    Long story short, I finally looked for help in 2012...since then, this is the longest I’ve been good and not overly concerned by it.

    My Mrs has been fantastic too, understanding and frustrated that there was nothing she could do while I rode the storm out...to backing in me seeing somebody.

    I guess my point is, back then, when it started for me, you couldn’t talk to your friends or anyone about it.
    It would show weakness and you’ll be considered a “Nut Job”.

    I talked to my Mam and Dad about it, my Dad was surprisingly more sympathetic than my Mother who took me to the regular Doctor.

    They both tried though xx.

    In the mean time, I’m sure that we all know of at least one person that hasn’t been able to get out of it.

    It really is good to talk!!

  20. #20

    Re: Ben Stokes...

    Quote Originally Posted by delmbox View Post
    I think bravery's too complicated a thing to quantify simplistically with "firemen and soldiers are the bravest because they do things they might die doing"

    It's all relative to the situation.

    Who's braver -the person who's not scared of doing something or the person who's absolutely terrified of doing it but does it anyway?

    A fireman might feel ok about running into a burning building but be too scared to tell his friends that he's depressed.

    A 15 year old boy coming out to his family and friends not knowing if they'll accept him or shun him? Brave as f**k. Is it the same kind of bravery as a soldier running into a gunfight to grab his injured mate? Of course not.

    There isn't a sliding scale of bravery, you don't have to try and simplify everything into simple black and white answers.
    Well played

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