Welsh Language In Trouble

[Kind of Blue]

I grew up speaking the lingo and save university and a couple of college courses had all my education in it as well.

Always felt it vaguely bemusing it ruffled so many people’s feathers, particularly Welsh people of a certain age and perspective. I’d say from my experience I don’t think I’ve met many under the age of 30-40 now that aren’t either positive or just agnostic about the language in Wales. I think it’s becoming increasingly normalised.

I’m a big advocate of language acquisition though and a lover of languages generally having learned (well, learning still) another two to varying degrees of success. I wish we pushed this more in British schools more broadly for languages to be taught consistently from a really young age, regardless of what that second language is. When the time comes and I have a child, and should I still be living in London, I’d seriously consider a school that does this even if I or my partner don’t speak the language.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Is there actually any real worth in learning the welsh language anymore guys?

I would say 'yes'. Learning a language is not only an interesting pursuit in itself for many people but it's a way of tapping into a country's culture. Expressions, literature and the arts that use language all give us a greater understanding of a culture.
Can anyone really understand France and its culture profoundly without knowing French and being able to read the language?
Language and culture are deeply entwined and, in my opinion, not knowing the language of a country is not conducive to knowing the culture on a deep level.

[Divine Wright]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...Oma?li=BBoPWjQ

The Arts Council of Wales is “systemically racist”, according to a report it commissioned itself, which says Welsh language requirements exclude minorities.*

The publicly funded body commissioned £51,000 worth of research which branded the organisation’s policies “racist”, along with those of National Museums Wales, a conclusion both bodies have accepted.

coc-oen

[Citizen's Nephew]

I would say 'yes'. Learning a language is not only an interesting pursuit in itself for many people but it's a way of tapping into a country's culture. Expressions, literature and the arts that use language all give us a greater understanding of a culture.
Can anyone really understand France and its culture profoundly without knowing French and being able to read the language?
Language and culture are deeply entwined and, in my opinion, not knowing the language of a country is not conducive to knowing the culture on a deep level.

Couldn't agree more. Really well put. Can I add that that learning a second language can help the brain recover from trauma and slow down or even prevent the onset of dementia. Damaged brains from incurable brain diseases like Multiple Sclerosis can slow down and re-route damaged neurological pathways. A real-life example is me. In 2017 I had 17 brain lesions and one spinal lesion resulting in chronic impairment of my central nervous system (CNS). Learning Greek has helped stop further 'active' lesions in a way that no other treatment has been able to. All other treatments have stopped because they were too dangerous. Learning a language is not a 'cure' (my MS is incurable) but it's slowing down nerve damage (measured by 6 monthly 90min MRIs). I would recommend anyone and everyone learn a second or third language. My wife (who is English) has been learning Welsh for five years now.

Here's a paper explaining one study.

There's a game called Learn Japanese To Survive! Hiragana Battle - it's a language educational RPG game. It's a pretty cool game design. Languages can absolutely improve your life.

[Kind of Blue]

Couldn't agree more. Really well put. Can I add that that learning a second language can help the brain recover from trauma and slow down or even prevent the onset of dementia. Damaged brains from incurable brain diseases like Multiple Sclerosis can slow down and re-route damaged neurological pathways. A real-life example is me. In 2017 I had 17 brain lesions and one spinal lesion resulting in chronic impairment of my central nervous system (CNS). Learning Greek has helped stop further 'active' lesions in a way that no other treatment has been able to. All other treatments have stopped because they were too dangerous. Learning a language is not a 'cure' (my MS is incurable) but it's slowing down nerve damage (measured by 6 monthly 90min MRIs). I would recommend anyone and everyone learn a second or third language. My wife (who is English) has been learning Welsh for five years now.

Here's a paper explaining one study.

There's a game called Learn Japanese To Survive! Hiragana Battle - it's a language educational RPG game. It's a pretty cool game design. Languages can absolutely improve your life.

Thanks for sharing your story CN! 👍

Why Greek out of interest?

[Citizen's Nephew]

I grew up speaking the lingo and save university and a couple of college courses had all my education in it as well.

Always felt it vaguely bemusing it ruffled so many people’s feathers, particularly Welsh people of a certain age and perspective. I’d say from my experience I don’t think I’ve met many under the age of 30-40 now that aren’t either positive or just agnostic about the language in Wales. I think it’s becoming increasingly normalised.

I’m a big advocate of language acquisition though and a lover of languages generally having learned (well, learning still) another two to varying degrees of success. I wish we pushed this more in British schools more broadly for languages to be taught consistently from a really young age, regardless of what that second language is. When the time comes and I have a child, and should I still be living in London, I’d seriously consider a school that does this even if I or my partner don’t speak the language.

Great post!

[Divine Wright]

Mars and Ronnie have little to add to society. They are a waste of resources.

[WJ99mobile]

I grew up speaking the lingo and save university and a couple of college courses had all my education in it as well.

Always felt it vaguely bemusing it ruffled so many people’s feathers, particularly Welsh people of a certain age and perspective. I’d say from my experience I don’t think I’ve met many under the age of 30-40 now that aren’t either positive or just agnostic about the language in Wales. I think it’s becoming increasingly normalised.

I’m a big advocate of language acquisition though and a lover of languages generally having learned (well, learning still) another two to varying degrees of success. I wish we pushed this more in British schools more broadly for languages to be taught consistently from a really young age, regardless of what that second language is. When the time comes and I have a child, and should I still be living in London, I’d seriously consider a school that does this even if I or my partner don’t speak the language.

I do understand why people have gripes about the additional costs of a second language. The public bodies must spend a fortune on translation, additional publications etc.

As for the actual language though, why people beat on our culture is stupid. They’d soon complain if everything was totally homogenised. I bet they’d all be teeth gnashing if we had god save the queen as the national anthem though

[Citizen's Nephew]

Thanks for sharing your story CN! 👍

Why Greek out of interest?

You're welcome. Must have just cross-posted because I read your thoughts just after I'd posted mine. Kindred spirits! And I've just got to say, you have one of the coolest avatars. Bloody love it!

[Citizen's Nephew]

Thanks for sharing your story CN! ��

Why Greek out of interest?

Sorry, forgot to answer your question - I'm one-quarter Greek Cypriot and have been tracing long-lost family in Athens and Cyprus as well as I have a huge interest in Greek history and have followed AC Omonia (because of my Grandfather's affiliation with the club and Nicosia).

[Citizen's Nephew]

The rebrand from the traditional dustbin nearly finished me......Tan out

I've stayed away. Stay strong Mr P. I have faith in you!

[delmbox]

No, you’re alright mate, honestly.
No saving or sympathy required. I speak on behalf of many generations of quite hard and practical men who spoke WELSH as a mother tongue long before loads of incomers came to the south east and their grandchildren started learning this new version where you add “io”, at the end of English words and make up stupid spellings like Ambwlans.
.

Did they ask you to?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

No, you’re alright mate, honestly.
No saving or sympathy required. I speak on behalf of many generations of quite hard and practical men who spoke WELSH as a mother tongue long before loads of incomers came to the south east and their grandchildren started learning this new version where you add “io”, at the end of English words and make up stupid spellings like Ambwlans.

The old people knew very well that it was an old language mainly for farming talk and they wanted their kids to learn modern languages and be able to travel and succeed in the wider world.

Yes it’s good that some people preserve it but it’s a museum piece and a nice bit of culture not an alternative to English or other major languages in which we can communicate with millions.

The real Welsh people are not victims who need protection from the bad English racists. Trust me they’ll look out for themselves and no doubt there’ll be a few who might fall back on a bit of Welsh between themselves, but whilst I DO appreciate your nice intent there, it’s really not needed thanks.

Re: your comment about the word 'Ambulance'

The English word came from Latin and all European languages have borrowed, copied and modified words from other languages, English probably being the most significant example. Your personal prejudices seem to prompt you to write the most ridiculous nonsense regarding language in general.

[Wash DC Blue]

Couldn't agree more. Really well put. Can I add that that learning a second language can help the brain recover from trauma and slow down or even prevent the onset of dementia. Damaged brains from incurable brain diseases like Multiple Sclerosis can slow down and re-route damaged neurological pathways. A real-life example is me. In 2017 I had 17 brain lesions and one spinal lesion resulting in chronic impairment of my central nervous system (CNS). Learning Greek has helped stop further 'active' lesions in a way that no other treatment has been able to. All other treatments have stopped because they were too dangerous. Learning a language is not a 'cure' (my MS is incurable) but it's slowing down nerve damage (measured by 6 monthly 90min MRIs). I would recommend anyone and everyone learn a second or third language. My wife (who is English) has been learning Welsh for five years now.

Here's a paper explaining one study.

There's a game called Learn Japanese To Survive! Hiragana Battle - it's a language educational RPG game. It's a pretty cool game design. Languages can absolutely improve your life.

That is very cool!
Glad to hear that it helps you.

[dembethewarrior]

Is there actually any real worth in learning the welsh language anymore guys?

Because we're Welsh?

[dembethewarrior]

My experience of being educated through a Catholic system wasn’t good
You are taught through repetition
Constantly reciting prayers in many of the assemblies each day with non compliance resulting in violence - we were assaulted with the cane from the headmaster for not attending church and suffered beatings from “Dai the Dap” from the Deputy head Mr Connors
How people say school years were the best years is laughable

Welsh education all the way 👍

Didn't all schools have the cane?

Whatever the school these days, they can't teach like that anymore.

[FungoFurore]

Citizen's Nephew - how/where have you been learning Greek?

I have Greek heritage and would love to learn, just don't think I have the time! Interested to hear whether you've used online methods or actual lessons.

[WJ99mobile]

As mentioned earlier not a advocate of the welsh language (my partner teaches in a welsh medium school though) but Welsh speakers have been rising year on year for quite a while

[RonnieBird]

Why is someone a 'plastic Taff' f they decide to learn Welsh? For someone who has a superior intellect (in your opinion) you come out with some ludicrous generalisations.
By the way, considering the fact that you are such a free thinker did you not question the nonsense peddled by your Grammar School teacher regarding language that is widely accepted as being archaic rather than the correct version they claimed it to be?

Ey ?

Um , well we all come out with ludicrous crap occasionally don’t we ? All part of the fun of language and eventually productive discussion.
Of course I questioned the silly old bugger by the way. I don’t think I suggested that he had it right, but was commenting critically on the argument that we should use whatever words our teachers used - in this case “maths”rather than “math”

[Citizen's Nephew]

Citizen's Nephew - how/where have you been learning Greek?

I have Greek heritage and would love to learn, just don't think I have the time! Interested to hear whether you've used online methods or actual lessons.

I've bought books from Amazon and use anything I can get free online as well as the free version of Duolingo (there's an iPhone App). The hardest part is the alphabet - I'm great if everything is upper case but rubbish still with lower case letters!

Read and Speak Greek for Beginners with Audio CD, 2nd Edition (Read & Speak for Beginners)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Greek Script Hacking: The optimal pathway to learn the Greek alphabet (Teach Yourself)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Go for it! 10 mins a day is better than nothing at all. Good luck!

Oh, and I read somewhere recently that the most popular language learned on Duolingo is Welsh! Mrs CN uses it and loves it.

[dembethewarrior]

I've bought books from Amazon and use anything I can get free online as well as the free version of Duolingo (there's an iPhone App). The hardest part is the alphabet - I'm great if everything is upper case but rubbish still with lower case letters!

Read and Speak Greek for Beginners with Audio CD, 2nd Edition (Read & Speak for Beginners)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Greek Script Hacking: The optimal pathway to learn the Greek alphabet (Teach Yourself)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Go for it! 10 mins a day is better than nothing at all. Good luck!

Oh, and I read somewhere recently that the most popular language learned on Duolingo is Welsh! Mrs CN uses it and loves it.

I had duolingo for Spanish, it was great to be fair, but at the time I didn't have enough time or will to learn it so I got a refund..
Working with a few North Walians now and I've thought about getting the app back to learn Welsh. My boss mentioned welsh being the most popular language on the as well.

[Divine Wright]

Shouldn't this thread be titled "Welsh Arts Council in trouble" anyway ? Why the need to shot on the language.

Regarding the ability to speak welsh in the public sphere, I would prefer a non-white doctor who speaks to me in Welsh than a white, english-speaking monoglot.No offence.

[Citizen's Nephew]

I had duolingo for Spanish, it was great to be fair, but at the time I didn't have enough time or will to learn it so I got a refund..
Working with a few North Walians now and I've thought about getting the app back to learn Welsh. My boss mentioned welsh being the most popular language on the as well.

You can use the free version - which is cool if you don't have a lot of time. I wish I could remember where I read about Welsh being the most popular but I'm glad you've confirmed I didn't dream it. Get the App back on that phone!

[Divine Wright]

Also, it seems that policies that aim to safeguard the rights of the language and a Welsh-speaker's right to use their language is at odds with policies regarding quotas for people from ethnic minorities. It is quite an interesting debate and one that throws up tension between different, vulnerable collectives........welsh speakers vs welsh people from non-white families. It reminds me a little bit of the tension between feminists and transgender people.

As far as I see it, there is a difference between not filling a quota and being actively racist. If the Arts Council for Wales were rejecting non-white welsh speakers who were qualified for the job, then you might consider that they were not fullfilling a legal requirement regarding quotas.

It interesting that the The Welsh Arts Anti-Racist Union have zero publications in the welsh language. That seems a little bit inconsistent considering they aim to protect the rights of communities who form a minority group within wales ..... as a welsh speaker I would consider myself part of a minorty group within my own country and am subject to the same stereotypes and ignorance that many non-white people are subject to ...... as a few of the comments in this very thread are testament to.

[lardy]

Welsh being the most popular language on Duolingo sounds like an urban myth. Unsurprisingly, it's English, and always has been.

Duolingo has a test which was used by some universities and educational institutions as an alternative to a regular language test during covid, so English popularity has only increased on there.