911 , Inside The Presidents War Room , BBC 1 Now

[goats]

Iraq was a shocker, we had no business there and it’s just ruined the place and areas around it….I doubt it will ever recover like Syria and Libya….they just wanted to take out saddam.

[jon1959]

Right, when will you lefties and snowflakes learn?

If, whenever there is a terrorist attack, you have to be seen to do something or they will just keep on doing it.
Just like when a normal British person commits a crime, if it goes unpunished, they'll keep on doing it.

I was working in London when the bombs went off and my hotel was a couple of doors up from the bus. The county Hotel.

They caused utter carnage that day, the phone networks were cut off and my kids were distraught they couldn't get hold of me.
We couldn't get in our hotel until midnight.
And when we did, there was empty blood transfusion bags all over the entrance outside where they were using the lobby as some sort of makeshift hospital.
I'll never forget the following day, when I got back home, I took the family bowling and after a couple of throws I started feeling strange , I went to the toilet and felt giddy and shaky, for a couple of minutes, like adrenalin was wearing off or something.


Can you imagine being in New York that day and witnessing that carnage as it was unfolding?
Can you imagine a relative dying in either attack?

Get a grip mun, you'd want your government to do something and do something fast.

Just like when America nuked Japan.
Should they have dropped it the bombs?
Damn right they should have, I'd have dropped it twice too

Are you really using the 7/7 attack in London as a justification for invasion of Afghanistan? Yes it was an horrific act of terror - but it took place 4 years after the US and allies invaded Afghanistan to (in the original justification) destroy terrorist training camps and bases!

The attacks had nothing to do with Al Qaeda (according to a UK government enquiry). Three of the four attackers came from Leeds! The other one came from Aylesbury - not Kabul.

I may be a 'lefty snowflake' (in fact I'm not a pacifist or non-interventionist) but I don't think the answer is to nuke Leeds - twice! Or whatever other 'solution' you are endorsing. Maybe just military occupation and drone strikes in Leeds?

[Tuerto]

Actually, whatever else it achieved, the invasion of Afghanistan almost certainly prevented the kind of mass-scale organised terrorist attacks against the west as we saw on 9/11.

Prior to the war Al Qaeda had a base to prepare and fund such attacks. After it, they didn't. The US had to do something and the west rightly fell in behind the US.

Thats not to say other mistakes werent made, but you cant guarantee how these things will turn out, and you cant guarantee that a pacifist approach would have ended better.

What if we didnt go to war? What if Al Qaeda planned another attack and London was next? What if they struck a deal with China on resources and the islamo-fascist Taliban of the early 2000s became established and grew? What is the whole middle east fell? What of the generation or two of Afghan women who have received an education in the last two decades?

We only know the rights and wrongs of the Afghanistan war because thats what happened. We dont know what would have happened if it didnt occur. Things may have turned out far far worse.

Thats the issue with people like Corbyn. They can stay out of everything and take no responsibility, but then by default you take responsibility for the atrocities occuring when you dont act.

For me, on balance, Iraq was a political error. Afghanistan wasn't. The withdrawal was clearly botched, but the war itself was justified given that the Taliban did not hand over those who planned and committed 9/11. The US had no choice

Thing is, i can't ever recall being Invaded by Afghanistan. Terrorists turning up on our shores, quite easily identifiable etc. I'd say that the people committing the atrocities were mostly UK citizens who, to fair, were probably part of the way there in terms of being radicalised, or who had some warped sense of justice, some may have just been very angry at what the west was implementing on Muslim countries, although that certainly doesn't justify their actions.

The point i'm making is that whatever we screwed up in iraq and Afghanistan has created and contributed towards young male muslim men who were born in this country becoming radicalised and full of hate. We achieved nothing in either country. Read the peace deal that the US did with the Taliban, it's a joke, basically, it says, 'Just Behave Yourselves from now on' It was defeat for the Americans in Afghanistan. An absolute joke of a government put in charge, and a peace deal that suited The Taliban so that the US could shuffle out the back door because they roundly screwed things up, along with the UK as well.

[delmbox]

Are you really using the 7/7 attack in London as a justification for invasion of Afghanistan? Yes it was an horrific act of terror - but it took place 4 years after the US and allies invaded Afghanistan to (in the original justification) destroy terrorist training camps and bases!

The attacks had nothing to do with Al Qaeda (according to a UK government enquiry). Three of the four attackers came from Leeds! The other one came from Aylesbury - not Kabul.

I may be a 'lefty snowflake' (in fact I'm not a pacifist or non-interventionist) but I don't think the answer is to nuke Leeds - twice! Or whatever other 'solution' you are endorsing. Maybe just military occupation and drone strikes in Leeds?

I think we can all agree that if the US and UK had destroyed Al Qaeda as successfully as jon1959 has destroyed nugent here then the world would be a much safer place

[nugent]

Actually, whatever else it achieved, the invasion of Afghanistan almost certainly prevented the kind of mass-scale organised terrorist attacks against the west as we saw on 9/11.

Prior to the war Al Qaeda had a base to prepare and fund such attacks. After it, they didn't. The US had to do something and the west rightly fell in behind the US.

Thats not to say other mistakes werent made, but you cant guarantee how these things will turn out, and you cant guarantee that a pacifist approach would have ended better.

What if we didnt go to war? What if Al Qaeda planned another attack and London was next? What if they struck a deal with China on resources and the islamo-fascist Taliban of the early 2000s became established and grew? What is the whole middle east fell? What of the generation or two of Afghan women who have received an education in the last two decades?

We only know the rights and wrongs of the Afghanistan war because thats what happened. We dont know what would have happened if it didnt occur. Things may have turned out far far worse.

Thats the issue with people like Corbyn. They can stay out of everything and take no responsibility, but then by default you take responsibility for the atrocities occuring when you dont act.

For me, on balance, Iraq was a political error. Afghanistan wasn't. The withdrawal was clearly botched, but the war itself was justified given that the Taliban did not hand over those who planned and committed 9/11. The US had no choice

That's a better way of putting across what I meant.

Totally agree with this james

[nugent]

I think we can all agree that if the US and UK had destroyed Al Qaeda as successfully as jon1959 has destroyed nugent here then the world would be a much safer place

Nobody will destroy me on here delmy
Least of all lefties lol.

But there's no point in arguing with these people, just listen to both sides of the argument and let it be , that's my new approach to football forums.

You'll end up going around in circles

[splott parker]

This is so pedantic

I’m not falling for confusing Americanisms Delmi, I thought it all happened in November

[Mario Miethig]

I watched it last night. Disappointed by it in all honesty. Got the impression Bush did the documentary to counter some of the criticism he got in the immediate aftermath of the attack. Such as the question of Bush’s disappearance after the attack, which was raised a lot at the time. In the documentary Bush kept on about he wanted to go back to DC, but was strongly advised not to.
Also thought it was quite laughable when they were saying about how tense and stressful it was on Airforce one, then showing pictures of Bush on the plane with his feet on the desk like he was watching a game of football.

[fingers]

Thing is, i can't ever recall being Invaded by Afghanistan. Terrorists turning up on our shores, quite easily identifiable etc. I'd say that the people committing the atrocities were mostly UK citizens who, to fair, were probably part of the way there in terms of being radicalised, or who had some warped sense of justice, some may have just been very angry at what the west was implementing on Muslim countries, although that certainly doesn't justify their actions.

The point i'm making is that whatever we screwed up in iraq and Afghanistan has created and contributed towards young male muslim men who were born in this country becoming radicalised and full of hate. We achieved nothing in either country. Read the peace deal that the US did with the Taliban, it's a joke, basically, it says, 'Just Behave Yourselves from now on' It was defeat for the Americans in Afghanistan. An absolute joke of a government put in charge, and a peace deal that suited The Taliban so that the US could shuffle out the back door because they roundly screwed things up, along with the UK as well.

I remember a quote from a documentary a few years ago, that the ‘Sunday Bloody Sunday’ incident increased IRA recruits ten fold almost overnight