Dalman and Choo have to go

[dembethewarrior]

Because I am related to them through my wife, know them pretty well and believe them. Why would they make it up ? Not everyone is a pathological liar, like certain other people on this board. PS. They aren't random to me.

I didn't mention anyone else. I am talking to you and nobody else.

I understand they are family to you, but in the scheme of all things SU they are just 2 random season ticket holders, why would they have any info from inside the club? And there I was thinking that only on **** they had ITK fans.

[dml1954]

I didn't mention anyone else. I am talking to you and nobody else.

I understand they are family to you, but in the scheme of all things SU they are just 2 random season ticket holders, why would they have any info from inside the club? And there I was thinking that only on **** they had ITK fans.

OK. Because they take an interest in their club. This is what I have been told - As Jon1959 said there was a furore when Madines signing was announced due to his Sheff Wed connections and the fact that Madine had said in the past that he hated Sheff Utd. People took a particular interest and tried to discredit his signing (sound familiar?). There was lots of discussion around it and the supporters club got interested. People wanted to know what fees had been paid but the clubs initially kept it quiet. Whether they held meetings with the club hierarchy I don't know but information was passed around. That's it and it was later confirmed by Warnock and other media releases that money had changed hands, which many fans up there weren't too happy about apparently. Our own supporters club often releases information about things going on between them , the manager and directors, so it is not that unusual.

[The Lone Gunman]

The fact that people are actually denying that any such payments were made, in a loan deal from a Premier League club to a Championship club, is totally ridiculous.

Nobody has ever made this claim. Literally nobody.

I see you are now claiming that Neil Warnock said there was "a large incentive amount included in the loan deal, which they had to pay out when they went up to the Prem with Madine in the squad."

What Warnock actually said (according to the link you provided) was: "Financially it’s very good for us, everything is fully paid up and there are incentives for them going up as well."

He didn't mention a "large incentive amount". And, somewhat unsurprisingly, he didn't mention a seven-figure loan fee either.

To recap, your initial claim (made on this board on 14/10/2019) read as follows: "We received a reported seven figure loan fee for Madine from Sheffield United last season plus a seven figure bonus for him when Sheffield Utd got promotion."

You repeated this claim on 01/09/2021 when you said: "Sheffield United did pay a large loan fee for Madine plus a bonus when they went up."

On neither occasion did you mention Madine's wages. None of us have ever denied that Sheffield United paid some, most or all of Madine's wages during his 2019 loan spell. I certainly haven't. All of us know that's how loan deals work - even Stockholm Stan. Nobody believes a club in the Premier League would give a club in the Championship a player for five months while continuing to pay all of his wages. Professional football clubs don't work that way. We all know that.

You appear to have changed your mind considerably since October 2019 regarding the Madine loan deal and have recently declared that the "reported seven figure loan fee" was instead an "undisclosed sum" that has "never been released publicly." You've also claimed the £1 million-plus 'large loan fee' you conjured up out of thin air actually comprised of Madine's wages, a loan fee and a promotion bonus, which you'd previously suggested was worth £1 million or more in its own right.

In a nutshell, you've made a fool of yourself.

[dembethewarrior]

OK. Because they take an interest in their club. This is what I have been told - As Jon1959 said there was a furore when Madines signing was announced due to his Sheff Wed connections and the fact that Madine had said in the past that he hated Sheff Utd. People took a particular interest and tried to discredit his signing (sound familiar?). There was lots of discussion around it and the supporters club got interested. People wanted to know what fees had been paid but the clubs initially kept it quiet. Whether they held meetings with the club hierarchy I don't know but information was passed around. That's it and it was later confirmed by Warnock and other media releases that money had changed hands, which many fans up there weren't too happy about apparently. Our own supporters club often releases information about things going on between them , the manager and directors, so it is not that unusual.

So they know because they've told you but you don't know how they know. OK.

[dml1954]

Nobody has ever made this claim. Literally nobody.

I see you are now claiming that Neil Warnock said there was "a large incentive amount included in the loan deal, which they had to pay out when they went up to the Prem with Madine in the squad."

What Warnock actually said (according to the link you provided) was: "Financially it’s very good for us, everything is fully paid up and there are incentives for them going up as well."

He didn't mention a "large incentive amount". And, somewhat unsurprisingly, he didn't mention a seven-figure loan fee either.

To recap, your initial claim (made on this board on 14/10/2019) read as follows: "We received a reported seven figure loan fee for Madine from Sheffield United last season plus a seven figure bonus for him when Sheffield Utd got promotion."

You repeated this claim on 01/09/2021 when you said: "Sheffield United did pay a large loan fee for Madine plus a bonus when they went up."

On neither occasion did you mention Madine's wages. None of us have ever denied that Sheffield United paid some, most or all of Madine's wages during his 2019 loan spell. I certainly haven't. All of us know that's how loan deals work - even Stockholm Stan. Nobody believes a club in the Premier League would give a club in the Championship a player for five months while continuing to pay all of his wages. Professional football clubs don't work that way. We all know that.

You appear to have changed your mind considerably since October 2019 regarding the Madine loan deal and have recently declared that the "reported seven figure loan fee" was instead an "undisclosed sum" that has "never been released publicly." You've also claimed the £1 million-plus 'large loan fee' you conjured up out of thin air actually comprised of Madine's wages, a loan fee and a promotion bonus, which you'd previously suggested was worth £1 million or more in its own right.

In a nutshell, you've made a fool of yourself.

Mr nit picking pedantic strikes again. You have always denied that any loan fees of any type changed hands and been unable to back that up with any evidence whatsoever. Also, you seem to think that any incentive element of a loan deal is not part of any agreed loan fee, which is ridiculous. You also seem to think that Premier League clubs loan players to Championship clubs for nothing - also ridiculous, as shown by the fact we paid over a million pounds to Liverpool for Wilson.

You just automatically disagree with anything anyone not on your approved list of posters says and forensically dissect their posts, twisting their words and meanings in a vain effort to look clever. You make a fool of yourself daily and have been rumbled by not just me. No doubt your minions will now jump on the band wagon and wade in. I really don't care any more.

[dml1954]

So they know because they've told you but you don't know how they know. OK.

Yes. Well worked out. I believe them.

[dembethewarrior]

Yes. Well worked out. I believe them.

You should ask them how they know, would be handy to know.

[The Lone Gunman]

You have always denied that any loan fees of any type changed hands and been unable to back that up with any evidence whatsoever. Also, you seem to think that any incentive element of a loan deal is not part of any agreed loan fee, which is ridiculous. You also seem to think that Premier League clubs loan players to Championship clubs for nothing - also ridiculous, as shown by the fact we paid over a million pounds to Liverpool for Wilson.

It's genuinely difficult to know where to start with this, but I have an idea - let's do it really slowly. One question at a time:

On 14/10/2019, you stated the following: "We (Cardiff City) received a reported seven figure loan fee for Madine from Sheffield United last season plus a seven figure bonus for him when Sheffield Utd got promotion."

Do you believe the alleged loan fee was reported?

[The Lone Gunman]

You just automatically disagree with anything anyone not on your approved list of posters says and forensically dissect their posts, twisting their words and meanings in a vain effort to look clever..

"We (Cardiff City) received a reported seven figure loan fee for Madine from Sheffield United last season plus a seven figure bonus for him when Sheffield Utd got promotion." (dml1954, 14/10/2019)

These are words which are extremely difficult to twist.

[dml1954]

You should ask them how they know, would be handy to know.

Think I pretty much explained it in a fair amount of detail in my previous post.

[dml1954]

"We (Cardiff City) received a reported seven figure loan fee for Madine from Sheffield United last season plus a seven figure bonus for him when Sheffield Utd got promotion." (dml1954, 14/10/2019)

These are words which are extremely difficult to twist.

Firstly, in the interests of fairness, please could you provide the link for the thread that you say I posted in on October 14th 2019. Just so that I can check that you haven't made it up and if I did say it, see what context it was in. Also, seeing that you are disputing what you say I said, please provide your evidence that City didn't receive a seven figure loan fee or a seven figure loan bonus fee for Madine. Or if you cant provide said evidence, do you just feel it in your water that we didn't get them, like blue lewj. I have already provided my evidence that we did receive the payments and you have provided nothing and been wriggling and squirming ever since.

[The Lone Gunman]

https://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.php?441136-Cornelius

There you go.

[dml1954]

https://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.php?441136-Cornelius

There you go.

The word ‘reported’ is important here as you may have a different definition to me but OK, now give me your evidence and links showing that we didn't get large loan fees for Madine and that Sheffield didn't pay all his wages. Confirmation from either club, manager or media reports would be fine.

[The Lone Gunman]

The word ‘reported’ is important here as you may have a different definition to me but OK, now give me your evidence and links showing that we didn't get large loan fees for Madine and that Sheffield didn't pay all his wages. Confirmation from either club, manager or media reports would be fine.

I have no evidence I can provide that a ‘reported seven figure loan fee’ and a ‘seven figure bonus’ wasn’t paid by Sheffield United to Cardiff City due to the fact that these alleged fees have never been mentioned anywhere by anyone other than you. Therefore, it is impossible for me to provide links to reports which never existed.

As for Madine’s wages, I have never disputed that Sheffield United paid all of them during his time on loan there. I neither know nor care what percentage of his wages they paid, but I would expect the percentage to be significant, as is the case in most loans of a similar nature.

I’m fascinated to hear what your definition of the word ‘reported’ is, especially as you have subsequently claimed that details of this loan deal were ‘undisclosed’.

[dembethewarrior]

The word ‘reported’ is important here as you may have a different definition to me but OK, now give me your evidence and links showing that we didn't get large loan fees for Madine and that Sheffield didn't pay all his wages. Confirmation from either club, manager or media reports would be fine.

So basically you can say anything you want, and it will always be true because nobody will be able to find evidence to claim it isn't?

Odds stacked in your favour there aren't they. Surprise.

Why don't you show evidence backing up your true claim, that would obviously be much easier and save a few pages of needles arguing to boot.

[The Hooded Claw]

If you read the account reports properly, you will see that at the beginning of that financial year his reported debt was £72m and at the end it was £40m. The money was taken out of the club accounts as stated in the report. It is also stated that the other £39.5m loans taken out (not by Mr Tan as you say) were to run the club on a day to day basis using the projected tv income as security. Nothing therefore to do with Mr Tan repaying himself some of the money he was owed, out of the increased revenue of being in the premier league.

No. The club took out new loans so that Tan’s loans could be reduced.

[blue lewj]

What I seem to have missed is who told dml's relatives that there was a loan fee for Madine? Was it from Wilder himself. Maybe the board.

It is one thing having an interest in your club but another having information that nobody else seems to be able to find?

You can add me to the list of another person who can't disprove it either. I'm not sure that's how this kind of thing works though. Making stuff up and then asking people to disprove it 😄

[blue lewj]

It is a critical time for dml.

If he doesn't prove this then he takes up his place on the throne as resident King Bull$hitter.