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Thread: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

  1. #26

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Sludge, if you ever get the chance, do some reading up on the resistance groups formed by priests, nuns and the congregation, who fought against Hitler, Franco and Mussolini. It's fascinating stuff and shows that having a puerile outlook on those with faith is a very big mistake to make.
    I am afraid that as the vast majority of roman catholics look to the Vatican and the pope for how they should behave ......which is very odd ......the actions of partisans , small in number against the fascists , is not really good enough to convince me that a lot of religious people are incredibly stupid and need to be treated like kids

  2. #27

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    20 pager on way I reckon

  3. #28

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I am afraid that as the vast majority of roman catholics look to the Vatican and the pope for how they should behave ......which is very odd ......the actions of partisans , small in number against the fascists , is not really good enough to convince me that a lot of religious people are incredibly stupid and need to be treated like kids
    Not all Catholic people look to the pope, not all of them agree with everything that is said by him or written in the Bible, or said by the priest etc. It doesn't really work like that. There will always be hard liners, but I'd say that the vast majority aren't that interested in what the pope has to say, especially those in more developed cultures.
    In my opinion, your view is very narrow and you're pandering to the reactionary by lumping everyone who has faith into the same category. Big mistake in my opinion. Would you say that all poor people are just lazy, people who suffer with mental health are weak etc? Of course you wouldn't, as that would be generalising, which almost certainly panders to the most extreme amongst us, and as a result, ends In people being persecuted because of a certain belief etc

  4. #29

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    During WW2 the catholic church and priests bravely helped highlight and advocate against the Nazi's Kinder-Euthanasie policy - a policy that was essentially killing disabled children. However, the Catholic 'church' (as an institution) didn't extend that same love or bravery towards the Jews in Germany who were being shipped of to concentration camps - despite being told and informed by their some of their own Priests.

    In fact the biggest issue the Catholic Church had with the Nazis was that the Nazis wanted to stop resources being sent to the Catholic church. Incidentally, the Catholic church helped many Nazis flee to south America and other places immediately after the war to escape prosecution.

    However we have to separate the 'church' and people. There are many many Catholics and priests who opposed the Nazis and lost their lives for it. In particular the Jesuits. But the Catholic church as an 'institution' and huge numbers of followers went along with the Nazis.

  5. #30

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Not all Catholic people look to the pope, not all of them agree with everything that is said by him or written in the Bible, or said by the priest etc. It doesn't really work like that. There will always be hard liners, but I'd say that the vast majority aren't that interested in what the pope has to say, especially those in more developed cultures.
    In my opinion, your view is very narrow and you're pandering to the reactionary by lumping everyone who has faith into the same category. Big mistake in my opinion. Would you say that all poor people are just lazy, people who suffer with mental health are weak etc? Of course you wouldn't, as that would be generalising, which almost certainly panders to the most extreme amongst us, and as a result, ends In people being persecuted because of a certain belief etc
    Yes it does , that's how these bodies survive . Money and people indoctrination others .

    The vast majority of roman catholics look towards the Vatican and the pope for guidance as he is their spiritual leader on earth

    They don't practice what they preach but the catholic church is against homosexuality , sex before marriage and abortion .

    I am afraid either you are hiding a secret religious leaning or you are not facing reality

    The comparison with mental ill health is of course nonsense

    People are not taught to be mentally ill , or go every Sunday to a place that helps them to be mentally ill

    Mental illness happens

    To compare saying something like pull yourself together to a mentally ill person to the fact that roman catholics are brainwashed is ludicrous

    Why would I say that mentally ill people are weak or the poor are lazy in the same way that religious people are brainwashed ?

    Mentally ill people are ill , poor people are poor

    Anybody who goes to church on a Sunday and has a priest read to them the latest directive from his holiness the pope is brainwashed .

    We sing cardiff city are the greatest team in football the world has ever seen ......but we don't believe it , its clearly nonsense

    I think defending the right for someone to believe in God is up to the individual , if you want to do that then carry on but I am saying religious people are indoctrinated , especially roman catholics and if someone is defending the right of someone to believe in a bloke sitting on a cloud then its 2021 and there are people still waiting for evidence he exists , never mind having people like you tell me I can't generalise about people who are clearly devoted to something that clearly doesn't seem to be there .

  6. #31

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Not all Catholic people look to the pope, not all of them agree with everything that is said by him or written in the Bible, or said by the priest etc. It doesn't really work like that. There will always be hard liners, but I'd say that the vast majority aren't that interested in what the pope has to say, especially those in more developed cultures.
    In my opinion, your view is very narrow and you're pandering to the reactionary by lumping everyone who has faith into the same category. Big mistake in my opinion. Would you say that all poor people are just lazy, people who suffer with mental health are weak etc? Of course you wouldn't, as that would be generalising, which almost certainly panders to the most extreme amongst us, and as a result, ends In people being persecuted because of a certain belief etc
    I know that mentally illness exists

    I know that poverty exists

    It's pretty apparent that God is a delusion

    Therefore I think it's fair to say religious people are deluded and blindly follow the words of a book taught to them through the generations , like learning your lines

    I think that's a pretty fair assumption , if you think that's an unfair generalisation then I am afraid that's the way it is based upon my life experience and the complete and utter lack of evidence that god exists .

  7. #32

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Yes it does , that's how these bodies survive . Money and people indoctrination others .

    The vast majority of roman catholics look towards the Vatican and the pope for guidance as he is their spiritual leader on earth

    They don't practice what they preach but the catholic church is against homosexuality , sex before marriage and abortion .

    I am afraid either you are hiding a secret religious leaning or you are not facing reality

    The comparison with mental ill health is of course nonsense

    People are not taught to be mentally ill , or go every Sunday to a place that helps them to be mentally ill

    Mental illness happens

    To compare saying something like pull yourself together to a mentally ill person to the fact that roman catholics are brainwashed is ludicrous

    Why would I say that mentally ill people are weak or the poor are lazy in the same way that religious people are brainwashed ?

    Mentally ill people are ill , poor people are poor

    Anybody who goes to church on a Sunday and has a priest read to them the latest directive from his holiness the pope is brainwashed .

    We sing cardiff city are the greatest team in football the world has ever seen ......but we don't believe it , its clearly nonsense

    I think defending the right for someone to believe in God is up to the individual , if you want to do that then carry on but I am saying religious people are indoctrinated , especially roman catholics and if someone is defending the right of someone to believe in a bloke sitting on a cloud then its 2021 and there are people still waiting for evidence he exists , never mind having people like you tell me I can't generalise about people who are clearly devoted to something that clearly doesn't seem to be there .
    People aren't taught to be poor either but I understood what he was getting at.

  8. #33

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I know that mentally illness exists

    I know that poverty exists

    It's pretty apparent that God is a delusion

    Therefore I think it's fair to say religious people are deluded and blindly follow the words of a book taught to them through the generations , like learning your lines

    I think that's a pretty fair assumption , if you think that's an unfair generalisation then I am afraid that's the way it is based upon my life experience and the complete and utter lack of evidence that god exists .
    Fair enough, that's how you see it. I don't agree. I'll leave it now, because these threads just repeat themselves and nobody really listens to anyone elses point of view or even tries to see both sides of the discussion.

    One thing i will say, you have no business saying that i may have some secret religious leaning, like you're attempting to out me, or like it's some kind of sordid belief. If i was religious, i'd say so, why wouldn't i?

  9. #34

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Fair enough, that's how you see it. I don't agree. I'll leave it now, because these threads just repeat themselves and nobody really listens to anyone elses point of view or even tries to see both sides of the discussion.

    One thing i will say, you have no business saying that i may have some secret religious leaning, like you're attempting to out me, or like it's some kind of sordid belief. If i was religious, i'd say so, why wouldn't i?
    Don't you know he's the darling of ccmb and therefore it is acceptable behaviour according to the ccmb masses when he decides to 'go on a wind up'

    You will be labeled a bully if you go against this view. Tread carefully.

  10. #35

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by dembethewarrior View Post
    Don't you know he's the darling of ccmb and therefore it is acceptable behaviour according to the ccmb masses when he decides to 'go on a wind up'

    You will be labeled a bully if you go against this view. Tread carefully.
    I'm treading 'out' of this thread

  11. #36

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    I'm treading 'out' of this thread
    Smart move.

  12. #37

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I know that mentally illness exists

    I know that poverty exists

    It's pretty apparent that God is a delusion

    Therefore I think it's fair to say religious people are deluded and blindly follow the words of a book taught to them through the generations , like learning your lines

    I think that's a pretty fair assumption , if you think that's an unfair generalisation then I am afraid that's the way it is based upon my life experience and the complete and utter lack of evidence that god exists .
    Problem is our life experience is in reality very limited Sludge. It's worth finding-out what those at the more liberal end of the religious spectrum believe as it's certainly not the above. I say that as a card-carrying Humanist.

  13. #38

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    Problem is our life experience is in reality very limited Sludge. It's worth finding-out what those at the more liberal end of the religious spectrum believe as it's certainly not the above. I say that as a card-carrying Humanist.
    And i'm saying it as someone who has no belief in god whatsoever.

  14. #39

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I know that mentally illness exists

    I know that poverty exists

    It's pretty apparent that God is a delusion

    Therefore I think it's fair to say religious people are deluded and blindly follow the words of a book taught to them through the generations , like learning your lines

    I think that's a pretty fair assumption , if you think that's an unfair generalisation then I am afraid that's the way it is based upon my life experience and the complete and utter lack of evidence that god exists .
    You can't make an assumption and try and back it up with a generalisation. Think about what you've just written.

    You (we) don't know any of these things. The brain is a system that is continually trying to prove its own existence. We think we are in control of our brains but it's completely the other way around.

    Ask yourself this question. Are human beings getting closer and closer to developing conscious and independent AI? If the answer is yes, then ask yourself if it's possible that another life form could have already made simulations populated by conscious beings? If the answer is yes, then where does our existence fit it?

    Is the concept of a creator then a delusion?

    I'd also recommend reading Sophie's World by Jostein Gaarder.

  15. #40

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew View Post
    You can't make an assumption and try and back it up with a generalisation. Think about what you've just written.

    You (we) don't know any of these things. The brain is a system that is continually trying to prove its own existence. We think we are in control of our brains but it's completely the other way around.

    Ask yourself this question. Are human beings getting closer and closer to developing conscious and independent AI? If the answer is yes, then ask yourself if it's possible that another life form could have already made simulations populated by conscious beings? If the answer is yes, then where does our existence fit it?

    Is the concept of a creator then a delusion?

    I'd also recommend reading Sophie's World by Jostein Gaarder.
    You are wasting your time on this one mate

  16. #41

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by dembethewarrior View Post
    You are wasting your time on this one mate
    I'm really annoyed with myself because I've got loads to do and then dip in to get a footie fix and the site's gone full-on theological philosophy. I need more Bovril and less wine!

  17. #42

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    You’re sounding pretty fundamentalist yourself there. Religious groups like The Quakers accept members who are Non Theist and don’t actually believe in the supernatural or a divine being for instance. They do some great work however around justice, peace building and social action. The world would likely be a bit of a worse place if their beliefs were shoved where the sun don’t shine imo.

    Religion is the cause of most wars and atrocities around the world.

  18. #43

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew View Post
    I'm really annoyed with myself because I've got loads to do and then dip in to get a footie fix and the site's gone full-on theological philosophy. I need more Bovril and less wine!
    You'll just get the same stuff already posted repeated over and over. He who shouts loudest and all that..

  19. #44

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Back in the days of uneducated people, and before science, Man needed religion to make some sense of the world, to explain where we all came from, what we were doing here, and what happens when we die. Now, science has explained everything (okay, most things), and we no longer need religion. But we do need a sense of belonging, and that's why people join clubs, go to football, etc. We don't need God, but we do need the companionship of like-minded people.

    But religion is still there, and it still has a lot of wealth and authority, although in reality, it doesn't deserve either.

    But as regards child abuse, I guess that if that is your 'thing', then you'd hang out where there were plenty of kids, where you'd have a bit of respectability, and where you might come across like-minded people. Hence teachers, priests, sports coaches, tend to throw up a high percentage of these perverts.

  20. #45

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    We've done religion to death on here. This thread seems to prove there's an afterlife.......

  21. #46

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by DubaiDai View Post
    Religion is the cause of most wars and atrocities around the world.
    OK, but my post was specifically about The Quakers who are pacifists and have a long tradition of resistance to military action.

  22. #47

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew View Post
    You can't make an assumption and try and back it up with a generalisation. Think about what you've just written.

    You (we) don't know any of these things. The brain is a system that is continually trying to prove its own existence. We think we are in control of our brains but it's completely the other way around.

    Ask yourself this question. Are human beings getting closer and closer to developing conscious and independent AI? If the answer is yes, then ask yourself if it's possible that another life form could have already made simulations populated by conscious beings? If the answer is yes, then where does our existence fit it?

    Is the concept of a creator then a delusion?

    I'd also recommend reading Sophie's World by Jostein Gaarder.
    I go with science

    We know mental illness exists

    We are about as certain as we can be that once you die , that's it , no afterlife

    If that's a generalisation , I am guilty

  23. #48

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Fair enough, that's how you see it. I don't agree. I'll leave it now, because these threads just repeat themselves and nobody really listens to anyone elses point of view or even tries to see both sides of the discussion.

    One thing i will say, you have no business saying that i may have some secret religious leaning, like you're attempting to out me, or like it's some kind of sordid belief. If i was religious, i'd say so, why wouldn't i?
    I have no idea but you defend the right of people to believe in things that evidently don't exist so I have the right to suggest you may have a vested interest in doing that .

  24. #49

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    Problem is our life experience is in reality very limited Sludge. It's worth finding-out what those at the more liberal end of the religious spectrum believe as it's certainly not the above. I say that as a card-carrying Humanist.
    I listen to science and evidence

  25. #50

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    Back in the days of uneducated people, and before science, Man needed religion to make some sense of the world, to explain where we all came from, what we were doing here, and what happens when we die. Now, science has explained everything (okay, most things), and we no longer need religion. But we do need a sense of belonging, and that's why people join clubs, go to football, etc. We don't need God, but we do need the companionship of like-minded people.

    But religion is still there, and it still has a lot of wealth and authority, although in reality, it doesn't deserve either.

    But as regards child abuse, I guess that if that is your 'thing', then you'd hang out where there were plenty of kids, where you'd have a bit of respectability, and where you might come across like-minded people. Hence teachers, priests, sports coaches, tend to throw up a high percentage of these perverts.
    We have , mostly , moved on from the dark ages of drowning witches and potions and the belief that there is a god who is all powerful ......able to stop wars , heal the sick .....and omniprescent ......in everybody's lives , all the time , continually

    It's silly

    If someone goes to church then I don't block the gates stopping them going in

    But religious people picket abortion clinics and until very recently a lot of faiths condemn homosexuality as a sin .......and some still do

    As soon as someone says to me hi this is me and my wife and we are Christians I wish them the very best but as soon as any conversation around God comes up I am off shopping . I don't like to waste my time .

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