FT: BELARUS 2 - 3 WALES

[J R Hartley]

Colewill shouldn’t be anywhere near the international team, let alone starting a WCQ.

He’s clearly not ready for that level yet. Kept giving the ball away and lost it cheaply for their second. He’s played barely a handful of games at senior level for club, he needs time to develop. There seems a neat and tidy player in there but I’m struggling to see all the mega hype at the moment.

Harris did really well when he come on fair play.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

What did he do here?

I thought he did well on a couple of occasions and gave us something different in midfield. Not a McCarthy type player, not a regular Championship starter, but on low wages was worth a few cameos.

I think it's interesting that his average length of time on the field playing club football is 47 minutes per appearance. In international football it is 52 minutes per appearance.

I think the reason we turned the game around today was down to Williams and Harris. Before Williams came on, we passed the ball around slowly, with little impact or penetration. He attacked their midfield and gave us something different.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Harris did really well when he come on fair play.

He did. How Collins is ahead of him in the pecking order is a bit of a mystery.

[dembethewarrior]

I thought he did well on a couple of occasions and gave us something different in midfield. Not a McCarthy type player, not a regular Championship starter, but on low wages was worth a few cameos.

I think it's interesting that his average length of time on the field playing club football is 47 minutes per appearance. In international football it is 52 minutes per appearance.

I think the reason we turned the game around today was down to Williams and Harris. Before Williams came on, we passed the ball around slowly, with little impact or penetration. He attacked their midfield and gave us something different.

If we're going for low wages and cameos I'd rather someone younger.

[dembethewarrior]

He did. How Collins is ahead of him in the pecking order is a bit of a mystery.

And Bacuna more so...

[City123]

Madness to play Colwill as a lone striker against 3 central defenders, seriously poor management from Page that could kill his confidence.

We got the result, but we need to be so much better. I have no faith in Page to make the required adjustments, we saw at the Euros how a simple change in Denmark's shape completely bamboozled him and how he can't react

[19bluebirds27]

As Holloway once said “we were not our best, but we still managed to get her in the taxi”

With all the absentees, the issues that was going to Russia - let’s just enjoy the win tonight, look forward to being able to compete in every game we play towards qualification.

Jonny Williams rarely disappoints for Wales and has helped dig us out of a few holes recently in the minutes he plays - perhaps this is his level?

[dembethewarrior]

As Holloway once said “we were not our best, but we still managed to get her in the taxi”

With all the absentees, the issues that was going to Russia - let’s just enjoy the win tonight, look forward to being able to compete in every game we play towards qualification.

Jonny Williams rarely disappoints for Wales and has helped dig us out of a few holes recently in the minutes he plays - perhaps this is his level?

What club level is Belarus?

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Colewill shouldn’t be anywhere near the international team, let alone starting a WCQ.

He’s clearly not ready for that level yet. Kept giving the ball away and lost it cheaply for their second. He’s played barely a handful of games at senior level for club, he needs time to develop. There seems a neat and tidy player in there but I’m struggling to see all the mega hype at the moment.

Harris did really well when he come on fair play.

Ah, but he did a couple of 'step-overs' against Brizzle City. Everyone's talking about it..

[Eric the Half a Bee]

And Bacuna more so...

Yes, indeed. However, Bacuna runs his nadgers off around the middle of the park. More important than any attacking qualities Harris has.

[dembethewarrior]

Yes, indeed. However, Bacuna runs his nadgers off around the middle of the park. More important than any attacking qualities Harris has.

I'll survive without the running if it means he doesn't play.

[MacAdder]

Colewill shouldn’t be anywhere near the international team, let alone starting a WCQ.

He’s clearly not ready for that level yet. Kept giving the ball away and lost it cheaply for their second. He’s played barely a handful of games at senior level for club, he needs time to develop. There seems a neat and tidy player in there but I’m struggling to see all the mega hype at the moment.

Harris did really well when he come on fair play.

Couldn't agree more.

I am not looking to knock the guy, in fact Page should shoulder the lion's share of blame even though his options were few, but the lad did very little to warrant the "he did well" comments and really should not have started as he hasn't, IMHO, even done that well when he's appeared for City this season.

Mark Harris made a good show of himself when he came on and probably was the better option to have started as at least we know he is a forward. Not having seen as much of Colwill as some one here, I'm not really sure what his best position is. He seems very one paced to be a striker.

Anyway, like I said, I am not trying to hammer the guy and I hope that his confidence hasn't suffered as a result. The fact he played in a win should help.

I do wonder though that if Ruben hadn't been a City player whether those who have been rushing to his defence on here would be commenting differently.
Either that or their technical football knowledge is very limited.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I'll survive without the running if it means he doesn't play.

Same here.

[the other bob wilson]

Couldn't agree more.

I am not looking to knock the guy, in fact Page should shoulder the lion's share of blame even though his options were few, but the lad did very little to warrant the "he did well" comments and really should not have started as he hasn't, IMHO, even done that well when he's appeared for City this season.

Mark Harris made a good show of himself when he came on and probably was the better option to have started as at least we know he is a forward. Not having seen as much of Colwill as some one here, I'm not really sure what his best position is. He seems very one paced to be a striker.

Anyway, like I said, I am not trying to hammer the guy and I hope that his confidence hasn't suffered as a result. The fact he played in a win should help.

I do wonder though that if Ruben hadn't been a City player whether those who have been rushing to his defence on here would be commenting differently.
Either that or their technical football knowledge is very limited.

You say Colwill is not a forward and then knock him for not playing like Keiffer Moore!

[MacAdder]

You say Colwill is not a forward and then knock him for not playing like Keiffer Moore!

Oh really, is that what I say, how have you come to that conclusion?

[the other bob wilson]

Oh really, is that what I say, how have you come to that conclusion?

You say at least we know Mark Harris is a forward implying, rightly I’d say, that Colwill isn’t.

[MacAdder]

You say at least we know Mark Harris is a forward implying, rightly I’d say, that Colwill isn’t.

I also said that I didn't know what his best position was and that Rob Page should take the lions share of the flak for playing him where he did, also that Mark Harris would have been the better option.

I said earlier in the thread that Ruben was out of his depth and you agreed with another poster that he had played well.

Do you really think he played well then Bob and that he wasn't out of his depth?

[Heathblue]

Wales got the job done in the end but made very hard work of it, the pitch looked awful, very slow, uneven bounce, plenty of divots but applicable to both teams, was delighted to see Rubin get the nod but on seeing how the game panned out maybe it was a few games too early for him, he did OK but didn’t have that much of an impact in difficult circumstances, hopefully will get fitter, stronger and be the type of player (footballer) that helps Cardiff eventually settle into a passing outfit, for me Mark Harris had more of an impact and was gutted he didn’t bury his opportunity to win the game but a Bale Hat-trick not a bad result form the opportunity, looking at the make-up of the group the 3 points were obviously vital and keeps us in with a great chance of securing the 2nd spot all in all a good day for Cardiff and Wales, on the down side I though a few of the top players Bale excluding, had a day off, Dan James, Joe Allen, Ben Davies were all out of sorts.

[UNDERHILL1927]

Wales got the job done in the end but made very hard work of it, the pitch looked awful, very slow, uneven bounce, plenty of divots but applicable to both teams, was delighted to see Rubin get the nod but on seeing how the game panned out maybe it was a few games too early for him, he did OK but didn’t have that much of an impact in difficult circumstances, hopefully will get fitter, stronger and be the type of player (footballer) that helps Cardiff eventually settle into a passing outfit, for me Mark Harris had more of an impact and was gutted he didn’t bury his opportunity to win the game but a Bale Hat-trick not a bad result form the opportunity, looking at the make-up of the group the 3 points were obviously vital and keeps us in with a great chance of securing the 2nd spot all in all a good day for Cardiff and Wales, on the down side I though a few of the top players Bale excluding, had a day off, Dan James, Joe Allen, Ben Davies were all out of sorts.

Joe Allen is way passed his best, not his fault he's just too old to play the role we need him to play. Morrell shouldn't be anywhere near the squad let alone the first team. Ben Davies wasn't great but doesn't play regular enough football. Thought Dan James was quiet but the pitch didn't help his game and he played an intelligent ball for the winning goal.

Page seems to have his favourites and tactically he concerns me, that was proven against Denmark when he didn't have a plan B

[FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead]

Main points for me:

- Colwill is not a striker and it was unfair of Page to play him as one. His game is about getting on the ball and taking players on, not receiving it with his back to goal while two giant centre halves roll him over. Poor management.

- Speaking of which, Page is way out of his depth at this level and that becomes clearer with every game. He has his favorites, and he doesn't know how to play to our strengths and minimize our weaknesses in the way that Coleman did. The first rule of international football is be hard to score against and out non existent midfield is constantly leaving our defence horribly exposed.

- The midfield. Allen's legs have gone. Legend of a player for Wales but there were times yesterday when he was chasing back on counter attacks and it was painful to watch. Joe Morrell came in and plugged a gap for a few games but the fact that not only is he still in the squad but a nailed on starter is shocking. Absolutely nowhere near the quality required to be an international. Page needs to address this, we have some decent young prospects in those positions like Elliot Thorpe, Robbie Burton, Dylan Levitt, and even Sion Spence, and it pisses me off that their pathway is being blocked by lower league mediocrity like Morrell and Sheehan.

- James Lawrence should never play for Wales again. That was the worst performance I've ever seen by a centre back at international level, the guy is horrendous. Mepham isn't much better either. Giggs and Page have this obsession with ball playing defenders but if they can't, you know, actually defend then what's the point?

- On the plus side, Bale showed immense leadership qualities (again), Mark Harris did well (and was singled out for praise by Bale which was nice). Brennan Johnson looks to have a lot of promise, and Jonny Williams carried on his weird streak of having more impact at international level than club level.

[Wash DC Blue]

We all know what was stacked against us.
So it’s a great result.

That being said, I have zero confidence in Page.

[Rjk]

in fairness, this kind of game, with that many players out, in years gone by would have been a disaster.
it wasn't a good performance but we left with 3 points.

our best players from the last decade - bale, Ramsey and Allen, are all in various stages of decline, we have some good younger players, but none of them likely to reach that kind of level.

[J R Hartley]

Main points for me:

- Colwill is not a striker and it was unfair of Page to play him as one. His game is about getting on the ball and taking players on, not receiving it with his back to goal while two giant centre halves roll him over. Poor management.

- Speaking of which, Page is way out of his depth at this level and that becomes clearer with every game. He has his favorites, and he doesn't know how to play to our strengths and minimize our weaknesses in the way that Coleman did. The first rule of international football is be hard to score against and out non existent midfield is constantly leaving our defence horribly exposed.

- The midfield. Allen's legs have gone. Legend of a player for Wales but there were times yesterday when he was chasing back on counter attacks and it was painful to watch. Joe Morrell came in and plugged a gap for a few games but the fact that not only is he still in the squad but a nailed on starter is shocking. Absolutely nowhere near the quality required to be an international. Page needs to address this, we have some decent young prospects in those positions like Elliot Thorpe, Robbie Burton, Dylan Levitt, and even Sion Spence, and it pisses me off that their pathway is being blocked by lower league mediocrity like Morrell and Sheehan.

- James Lawrence should never play for Wales again. That was the worst performance I've ever seen by a centre back at international level, the guy is horrendous. Mepham isn't much better either. Giggs and Page have this obsession with ball playing defenders but if they can't, you know, actually defend then what's the point?

- On the plus side, Bale showed immense leadership qualities (again), Mark Harris did well (and was singled out for praise by Bale which was nice). Brennan Johnson looks to have a lot of promise, and Jonny Williams carried on his weird streak of having more impact at international level than club level.

Excellent post. Agree with all of that.

[the other bob wilson]

I also said that I didn't know what his best position was and that Rob Page should take the lions share of the flak for playing him where he did, also that Mark Harris would have been the better option.

I said earlier in the thread that Ruben was out of his depth and you agreed with another poster that he had played well.

you really think he played well then Bob and that he wasn't out of his depth?

At half time yesterday, I answered a message saying "He hasn't been too bad, the shambles has originated elsewhere." with "Agreed, Lawrence had a horror ten minutes and you just don’t expect Gunter to make mistakes like that in international football. Wales got careless for about two or three minutes before the penalty.".

So, I didn't say Colwill had played well, I agreed that, at half time, he hadn't been too bad. I thought Colwill matched Wales in many ways by making a decent start before finding things a struggle as Wales, through accident or design, began to play to him as if he was a target man.

If you're rating him as a target man, then I'd say he was out of his depth, but when Wales were playing well in the first quarter he was more comfortable when he didn't have to play with his back to goal - I'd say he played pretty well then, but his performance fell away in the same way as the teams did.

[dembethewarrior]

Main points for me:

- Colwill is not a striker and it was unfair of Page to play him as one. His game is about getting on the ball and taking players on, not receiving it with his back to goal while two giant centre halves roll him over. Poor management.

- Speaking of which, Page is way out of his depth at this level and that becomes clearer with every game. He has his favorites, and he doesn't know how to play to our strengths and minimize our weaknesses in the way that Coleman did. The first rule of international football is be hard to score against and out non existent midfield is constantly leaving our defence horribly exposed.

- The midfield. Allen's legs have gone. Legend of a player for Wales but there were times yesterday when he was chasing back on counter attacks and it was painful to watch. Joe Morrell came in and plugged a gap for a few games but the fact that not only is he still in the squad but a nailed on starter is shocking. Absolutely nowhere near the quality required to be an international. Page needs to address this, we have some decent young prospects in those positions like Elliot Thorpe, Robbie Burton, Dylan Levitt, and even Sion Spence, and it pisses me off that their pathway is being blocked by lower league mediocrity like Morrell and Sheehan.

- James Lawrence should never play for Wales again. That was the worst performance I've ever seen by a centre back at international level, the guy is horrendous. Mepham isn't much better either. Giggs and Page have this obsession with ball playing defenders but if they can't, you know, actually defend then what's the point?

- On the plus side, Bale showed immense leadership qualities (again), Mark Harris did well (and was singled out for praise by Bale which was nice). Brennan Johnson looks to have a lot of promise, and Jonny Williams carried on his weird streak of having more impact at international level than club level.

Nicely summarised.