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Thread: So it's National Insurance then

  1. #61

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesp View Post
    Thanks Sludge
    I would contact Age Cymru and ask for guto or Simon, the information and advice workers , if anyone can advise you regarding financial matters they can

    Age Cymru can send you booklets on caring for and funding or applying for funding for home care or residential care for your loved ones

    The number is 0300 303 4498

    Care home fact sheet is 10 W

    Support at home fact sheet 46 W

  2. #62

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesp View Post
    Thank you for the explanation, as always with these things the devil is in the detail eh? It frightens me to think what kind of care we would get for £35,000 per year when we pay nearly double that. I don't know if you've had any experience dealing with Cardiff Council to help with care funding but bloody hell they are slow, still waiting for an assessment of my mum's needs after 6 months!
    You need to contact Age Cymru to hurry up this matter

    Does your mother wish to stay at home ?

    0300 303 4498

    If you can get hold of Simon or guto they will help you

  3. #63

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    Sounds like the politics of envy there to me. Plus, just because you are living in a house worth over £500000 doesnít mean you are rich. There are two or three bed semis in Cardiff worth that. Plus again that most pensioners have worked hard all their life, paid their taxes and National Insurance, and spent/saved their money prudently, so why should they have their property snatched off them later in life.
    You could also take the view that if you have plenty of savings why should the state fund your every need so that you can pass on your wealth to your kids.

  4. #64

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by MOZZER2 View Post
    c,mon starmer now its your chance to shine .....................
    this is going to be good.

  5. #65

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by cityhammer View Post
    You could also take the view that if you have plenty of savings why should the state fund your every need so that you can pass on your wealth to your kids.
    Because they have paid into the system for their WORKING lives.
    Ití should be owed to them.
    Their frugality or smart investments should go to what the **** they want.

  6. #66

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue View Post
    Because they have paid into the system for their WORKING lives.
    Ití should be owed to them.
    Their frugality or smart investments should go to what the **** they want.
    I understand that but there are some very wealthy people out there who could afford nursing care in their final days yet still leave inheritance

    Of course in an ideal world what you say is correct but there has to be some kind of cut off

    If you are worth 5 million and nursing costs will be 300k till you die is it right in general terms that someone who may have had an industrial accident gets crap care whilst you get good care ?

    OK I am taking a utopian look at things but it's late here 🙃

  7. #67

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I understand that but there are some very wealthy people out there who could afford nursing care in their final days yet still leave inheritance

    Of course in an ideal world what you say is correct but there has to be some kind of cut off

    If you are worth 5 million and nursing costs will be 300k till you die is it right in general terms that someone who may have had an industrial accident gets crap care whilst you get good care ?

    OK I am taking a utopian look at things but it's late here 🙃
    Iím looking at it through Working Class lens here.
    For instance my Dad and my Late Motherís resentment of what would become of what they worked for if they had to go into care.

    You are talking shift workers here, the pair of them.
    Their MO was to give my Brother and I a better deal than they had.

    Of Course they surpassed that massively.
    My Mother, A Pill Girl teaching me how to read at a more advanced level than school did back then.

    My Dad, an Alway boy taught me and tested me on my Capital Cities.

    Their love and work was for each other and their kids.
    They paid their dues and worked hard!!

  8. #68

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue View Post
    Iím looking at it through Working Class lens here.
    For instance my Dad and my Late Motherís resentment of what would become of what they worked for if they had to go into care.

    You are talking shift workers here, the pair of them.
    Their MO was to give my Brother and I a better deal than they had.

    Of Course they surpassed that massively.
    My Mother, A Pill Girl teaching me how to read at a more advanced level than school did back then.

    My Dad, an Alway boy taught me and tested me on my Capital Cities.

    Their love and work was for each other and their kids.
    They paid their dues and worked hard!!
    I am not doubting they did mate

    And it's not their level of income I am meaning to debate

    We are talking or I am talking very wealthy people

    Anyway I am off to bed , it's bloody hot over in taffyland tonight

  9. #69

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by dml1954 View Post
    Sounds like the politics of envy there to me. Plus, just because you are living in a house worth over £500000 doesnít mean you are rich. There are two or three bed semis in Cardiff worth that. Plus again that most pensioners have worked hard all their life, paid their taxes and National Insurance, and spent/saved their money prudently, so why should they have their property snatched off them later in life.
    Ive never understood the argument that your house has to be sold of to pay for care

    these people have paid tax's and NI all their lives, yes they own a home, but surely paying NI and tax's for 50 years mean they have paid enough into the " pot " to not have their home sold from under them

    I must have been in my early 20's when I first heard of this, a colleague was angry that his parents were heading into a home, he had been told they had to sell their home ( they had built it themselves down in Cornwall overlooking a beach ) this couple had both worked till retirement ( he was a doctor and she worked as a school nurse giving MMR jabs around Cornwall ) of course they had paid a lot in to the pot, yet were having the house taken away to fund the care home

  10. #70

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue View Post
    Because they have paid into the system for their WORKING lives.
    Ití should be owed to them.
    Their frugality or smart investments should go to what the **** they want.
    You understand we live in a Ponzi scheme right? What we hand out to people who don't need it today can't be spent on a) people who do or b) advancing society so that everybody can live a better life in the future. There isn't 'a pot' as some people like to say. We have an ageing population and haven't spent one second planning for it, even if we had previously had a government willing to look beyond one term, people would have voted against a pragmatic approach anyway.

  11. #71

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    Ive never understood the argument that your house has to be sold of to pay for care

    these people have paid tax's and NI all their lives, yes they own a home, but surely paying NI and tax's for 50 years mean they have paid enough into the " pot " to not have their home sold from under them

    I must have been in my early 20's when I first heard of this, a colleague was angry that his parents were heading into a home, he had been told they had to sell their home ( they had built it themselves down in Cornwall overlooking a beach ) this couple had both worked till retirement ( he was a doctor and she worked as a school nurse giving MMR jabs around Cornwall ) of course they had paid a lot in to the pot, yet were having the house taken away to fund the care home
    There isn't a pot. We are 2 Trillion in debt, if anything, the longer you have been alive, the longer you have been bankrupting the country.

  12. #72

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    There isn't a pot. We are 2 Trillion in debt, if anything, the longer you have been alive, the longer you have been bankrupting the country.
    Austerity or euthanasia.
    Heck of a choice.

    Those people who have worked all their lives donít matter.
    They can no longer be part of the production line regardless of what they have put in.

    Fcuk off you Bell!

  13. #73

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    Ive never understood the argument that your house has to be sold of to pay for care

    these people have paid tax's and NI all their lives, yes they own a home, but surely paying NI and tax's for 50 years mean they have paid enough into the " pot " to not have their home sold from under them

    I must have been in my early 20's when I first heard of this, a colleague was angry that his parents were heading into a home, he had been told they had to sell their home ( they had built it themselves down in Cornwall overlooking a beach ) this couple had both worked till retirement ( he was a doctor and she worked as a school nurse giving MMR jabs around Cornwall ) of course they had paid a lot in to the pot, yet were having the house taken away to fund the care home
    Think how much they've paid in, and how quickly that would be used up in pension and care costs. they will never have paid "enough" into the pot, and its unwise to use that as an argument when discussing the issue.

  14. #74

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by cityhammer View Post
    Think how much they've paid in, and how quickly that would be used up in pension and care costs. they will never have paid "enough" into the pot, and its unwise to use that as an argument when discussing the issue.
    And here is where the conversation gets tasty isnít it.
    An ever increasing amount of people taking out more than they have put in, in addition to those that have never put in at all.

  15. #75

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    I'd described my politics as, first and foremost, anti Conservative these days, but, although I think the Government are only doing what they did yesterday because they have to (like many who came before him, Johnson would kick this can further down the road in typical fashion if he could), I can't get too worked up in these circumstances about what are, effectively, tax rises. Similarly, although it's somehow typical that it happens less than five months before I reach state pension age (having had it put back to sixty six), I can understand the decision to suspend the triple lock on pensions for a year (will it ever return I wonder?).

    The thing is though, yesterday's announcement was similar to a budget in some ways as, on the day, the discussion is all about what the Government wants it to be about, it usually takes a few hours for the downsides of the Chancellor's announcements to come to light. That's what's happened today with those two bastions of Corbynite socialism, the Daily Telegraph and Times, running stories about how the tax burden in the UK will become the highest it's been for seventy years (according to the Times), while the Telegraph says it'll be the highest it's been since the Second World War - all of this from a party that sells itself as being much more anti tax than Labour.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-58483020

    For decades, Tories wishing to score points at Labour's expense have branded them the "tax and spend" party, but has there ever been a Government that deserves that description more than this one? It'll be very interesting to see if the forty two per cent or so who, according to the polls, have stuck with Johnson and his inept Cabinet through thin and thin still do so after this - the front page of the Telegraph also carries an opinion piece saying that Johnson sounded "the death knell for Conservatism" yesterday.

  16. #76

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    Very interesting. If true there is not a single commentator who has analysed the implications in such detail. I presume the upshot of today's plan will mean those in residential care will still be required to sell their homes to pay for their care.

    If that is the case I cannot understand why so much money is required to pay for a system that is not very much different (except for some tinkering around the edges) to the present arrangements.
    Looks like the media are starting to provide the analysis which Re-sign Carl Dale has helpfully set out.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58442991

  17. #77

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    Ive never understood the argument that your house has to be sold of to pay for care

    these people have paid tax's and NI all their lives, yes they own a home, but surely paying NI and tax's for 50 years mean they have paid enough into the " pot " to not have their home sold from under them

    I must have been in my early 20's when I first heard of this, a colleague was angry that his parents were heading into a home, he had been told they had to sell their home ( they had built it themselves down in Cornwall overlooking a beach ) this couple had both worked till retirement ( he was a doctor and she worked as a school nurse giving MMR jabs around Cornwall ) of course they had paid a lot in to the pot, yet were having the house taken away to fund the care home
    I feel bad for people in that situation. Chances are, I'll be in that situation myself one day.

    But realistically, how can 'the pot' completely support a beautiful beachfront property and care home costs?

    When you say the house was taken away, was it being repossessed by the mortgage company?

  18. #78

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue View Post
    Because they have paid into the system for their WORKING lives.
    Ití should be owed to them.
    Their frugality or smart investments should go to what the **** they want.
    Young people are going to work all their lives for lower wages, worse housing, worse pensions and for longer so I really don't care if for once the older generation takes a hit.

  19. #79

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I feel bad for people in that situation. Chances are, I'll be in that situation myself one day.

    But realistically, how can 'the pot' completely support a beautiful beachfront property and care home costs?

    When you say the house was taken away, was it being repossessed by the mortgage company?
    Because they owned a home they had to use the equity on this home to fund their care - itís not free to them.
    How bad would they have felt in their final years knowing this has happened and leave little to pass on
    Then there are people who have lived off the state forever and continue to get that care for free.

  20. #80

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by 19bluebirds27 View Post
    Because they owned a home they had to use the equity on this home to fund their care - it’s not free to them.
    How bad would they have felt in their final years knowing this has happened and leave little to pass on
    Then there are people who have lived off the state forever and continue to get that care for free.
    Yes I see your point here

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