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Thread: So it's National Insurance then

  1. #1

    So it's National Insurance then

    Thanks Boris

  2. #2

  3. #3

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    The richest in the UK made huge amounts of money on the back of the pandemic, why not tax them?

    Answer - because the tories have been bought out by them and the average person from the UK decides its immigrants fault instead of the mega rich (thanks to the daily mail and the sun)

  4. #4

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Ah yes - but it's only a 1.25% increase and not the 2% we were being told - or spun.

  5. #5

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by Doucas View Post
    The richest in the UK made huge amounts of money on the back of the pandemic, why not tax them?

    Answer - because the tories have been bought out by them and the average person from the UK decides its immigrants fault instead of the mega rich (thanks to the daily mail and the sun)
    Yeah, that's a good outline for a Socialist Worker editorial at any point in the last 50 years, but it isn't really true.

    The top 1% of income tax payers pay around a 25% of all income tax.
    The bottom half of all income tax payers pay 10%.
    https://ifs.org.uk/publications/9178

    And rightly so, may I add.

    I would probably rather they increased income tax than national insurance, but something had to be done.

  6. #6

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by Doucas View Post
    The richest in the UK made huge amounts of money on the back of the pandemic, why not tax them?

    Answer - because the tories have been bought out by them and the average person from the UK decides its immigrants fault instead of the mega rich (thanks to the daily mail and the sun)
    Yeah but at the same time lets acknowledge that a generation has completely underpaid into the system and now we are starting to see the problems that has caused. At the same time, the property ponzi scheme has favoured them as supply has dried up.

    For reference, I stand to gain from this policy in the long run as my parents have significant (but not obscene) wealth so this isn't about envy or a generational attack (I know these are the favoured tools of people without a point to make) but about fairness and cold hard logic.

  7. #7

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    Yeah, that's a good outline for a Socialist Worker editorial at any point in the last 50 years, but it isn't really true.

    The top 1% of income tax payers pay around a 25% of all income tax.
    The bottom half of all income tax payers pay 10%.
    https://ifs.org.uk/publications/9178

    And rightly so, may I add.

    I would probably rather they increased income tax than national insurance, but something had to be done.
    We desperately needed to make sure that pensioners with 500k+ wealth only need to spend a fraction of it on care? They can't spend it when you are dead and their 'kids' are already retirement age.

  8. #8

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    Yeah, that's a good outline for a Socialist Worker editorial at any point in the last 50 years, but it isn't really true.

    The top 1% of income tax payers pay around a 25% of all income tax.
    The bottom half of all income tax payers pay 10%.
    https://ifs.org.uk/publications/9178

    And rightly so, may I add.

    I would probably rather they increased income tax than national insurance, but something had to be done.
    Well obviously the bottom half pay less because income equality led by right wing thinking is off the charts. Look at wages and house prices from 50 years ago compared to today its insane.

    Specifically tell me what I said that isn't true.

  9. #9

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    We desperately needed to make sure that pensioners with 500k+ wealth only need to spend a fraction of it on care? They can't spend it when you are dead and their 'kids' are already retirement age.
    They will still pay upto £85,000, no?

  10. #10

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    They will still pay upto £85,000, no?
    They pay until their savings reach 85000

  11. #11

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    They will still pay upto £85,000, no?
    Yep, what does that work out as? 18 months worth? I would love to see a breakdown of cost of care and cost of occupancy/sustenance within a care home, I think it is probably right that care is paid for out of some kind of general taxation (that rich pensioners aren't excluded from paying themselves). But what does the 1k a week for a care home pay for currently, at least a third of that must be 'rent' and food, maybe the answer is more pragmatism about the true cost breakdown and a reflection on who should pay for that and why?

  12. #12

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    They pay until their savings reach 85000
    Other way around, nobody will pay more than 85k

  13. #13

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Bloody Socialists

    Germany’s system offers a minimum level of benefits and does not cover the full costs of care.

    Individual service users must pay the remaining costs plus any costs of bed and board in residential care (social assistance pays in the case of people with very low means).

  14. #14

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Yep, what does that work out as? 18 months worth? I would love to see a breakdown of cost of care and cost of occupancy/sustenance within a care home, I think it is probably right that care is paid for out of some kind of general taxation (that rich pensioners aren't excluded from paying themselves). But what does the 1k a week for a care home pay for currently, at least a third of that must be 'rent' and food, maybe the answer is more pragmatism about the true cost breakdown and a reflection on who should pay for that and why?
    The care home my mum is in it works out around 17 months, so we'll be at that point in about a month's time. be interesting to see this pans out now The home she is in is brilliant but obviously expensive.

  15. #15

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    A health and social care tax will be introduced across the UK to pay for reforms to the care sector and NHS funding in England
    So what's going to happen in NI, Scotland and Wales?

  16. #16

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    So what's going to happen in NI, Scotland and Wales?
    Sounds like they will get a population share of around £6billion between them, and the bit I didn't like... to spend as they see fit.

  17. #17

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    We desperately needed to make sure that pensioners with 500k+ wealth only need to spend a fraction of it on care? They can't spend it when you are dead and their 'kids' are already retirement age.
    Sounds like the politics of envy there to me. Plus, just because you are living in a house worth over £500000 doesn’t mean you are rich. There are two or three bed semis in Cardiff worth that. Plus again that most pensioners have worked hard all their life, paid their taxes and National Insurance, and spent/saved their money prudently, so why should they have their property snatched off them later in life.

  18. #18

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by Doucas View Post
    The richest in the UK made huge amounts of money on the back of the pandemic, why not tax them?

    Answer - because the tories have been bought out by them and the average person from the UK decides its immigrants fault instead of the mega rich (thanks to the daily mail and the sun)
    I would say that for every ‘rich’ person who has done well out of the pandemic, there are others that have lost loads of money or even their businesses.

  19. #19

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesp View Post
    Sounds like they will get a population share of around £6billion between them, and the bit I didn't like... to spend as they see fit.
    Step up socialist minded Mr Drakeford , simple one waste the Tory right social care extra funding taxation , or spend it wisely

  20. #20

    Re: So it's National Insurance then

    Having been through the existing system when I had to sell my parents house to pay Nursing Home fees these new arrangements are an improvement even though it is far from perfect. Whatever system anyone comes up with will generate objections but at least Johnson and co have grasped the nettle even though it breaks a major manifesto commitment.

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