So it's National Insurance then

[bluesp]

If anyone can do it they can

Is anyone living in the house at the moment as their only residence ?

Nice one, I'll go back to them.
No, it's rented out for the summer/ autumn at the moment

[dandywarhol]

Do pensioners pay NI still?

To clarify working pensioners will pay the new tax.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Yes fortunately we have POA in place, before my mum's dementia set in.
With Cardiff there's a £330 set up charge, then no interest providing you pay back with 56 days of the end of the contract. The house is in a holiday area so we are renting it out to help with her funding, trying hard to avoid selling it as it's an investment for myself and brothers in the long run as well as generating income now.
Thank you

I think the deferred payment scheme will mean a charge is made on the house and in order to avoid selling mum's house you have to between you pay that charge or the council will force a sale

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

And there is debate about one tax , however in 2023 the levy will appear separated on wage slips as a health levy , for me I want to see the overall of the NHS and Social Care in which is coming in a bill as you have to have a plan to spend this in the right places there is so much waste and abuse of the NHS services because the services is free in its ( entirety unlike a lot of other countries where you get basic minimum health care free and pay insurance thereafter for social care ie Italy and Germany to name two ).

The big move for me would be to drag the social care back under the NHS umbrella , get rid of private companies running social care , to ensure we get the buck we deserve not for someone to profit from , and critically pay those carers a decent wage

I totally agree

Private companies raking in the money and paying crap wages to the carers

Many on under 9 quid an hour

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Nice one, I'll go back to them.
No, it's rented out for the summer/ autumn at the moment

Get some advice on your concerns too , you are helping mum but it's understandable you have a future life too

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

something always doesn't seem to add up with care in this country. the costs are always eye watering. thousands per week. that can wipe through a value of a house in a couple of years.
yet at the same time there is no money to pay the carers adequately, they are hugely stressed and leaving the industry in droves.

where does it all go?

I don't know how to address it but the current system is completely broken.
someone who is really rich, can afford to pay for their care in old age from pensions and investments or rental income that they don't need to work for, so their house isn't touched.
whereas many other people will end up losing everything they e ever saved to pay for their last few years.

If social care was brought under direct control of NHS and local authorities then that would be a start .....better wages , secure employment , workers rights .......but for many years thanks to thatcher private companies bid for care packages from local councils

They treat the staff like shit and pay them shit ........and therfore the standard of care is shit

Yet the private companies roll more and more money in , year in year out

And anyone who thinks the care staff looking after their loved ones in a nice home are on good wages ........don't be mistaken

The owners of these care homes ?

Minted

[Rjk]

If social care was brought under direct control of NHS and local authorities then that would be a start .....better wages , secure employment , workers rights .......but for many years thanks to thatcher private companies bid for care packages from local councils

They treat the staff like shit and pay them shit ........and therfore the standard of care is shit

Yet the private companies roll more and more money in , year in year out

And anyone who thinks the care staff looking after their loved ones in a nice home are on good wages ........don't be mistaken

The owners of these care homes ?

Minted

I think it needs to be all under the NHS, local authorities should not be involved.
if the budgets are controlled by the same group then there aren't conflicts of interest and they can focus on better outcomes for patients.
they might be able to redirect some NHS money into care to ensure better availability, meaning less beds are blocked and less hospital acquired infections etc

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

thank feck for those immigrants that are willing to work for peanuts...oh yeah, they all got sent home

Well I wasn't going to say it but ....

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

If both parents are alive, the value of the home is completely ignored providing that one owner (or anyone relative over the age of 60 is living there as their main home) - it doesn't matter if t's owned as tenants in common or jointly tenancy.

Top advice from Ian about Lasting Power of Attorney - absolutely essential for everyone of any age. The example I give clients is Kate Garraway who had to rely on financial support from friends and family when her husband was suffering from Covid and everything was frozen as he hadn't set up Power of Attorney.

Does the other half , as it were or any relative living there as their main home whilst wife or husband is in care home eventually have to pay care home fees for loved one as you say the house is ignored ?

I assume savings are then looked at ?

But once they run out what happens regarding care fees , if the house isn't counted and there is no savings or investments left .....who pays ?

[Vindec]

There's an argument about whether it should NI, income tax or some other form of tax, but I don't see he had much choice - don't forget he was telling us he had a plan for social care before the pandemic was heard about.

As I see it not much has changed and the new arrangements are far from being a solution to the problem of long term care. The government's statement is all smoke and mirrors. Originally I thought the government had at least made a decision about future care but the bottom line is that even under the new arrangements, once savings are exhausted, houses will have to be sold to pay for the housing element of care for a single individual as well as for care itself. This of course pre-supposes that the house is not required to house a partner/spouse who is able to remain as that component is not included.

Many thanks to Carl Dale who has advanced my understanding of the situation.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

the point here is that the NICs paid by today's pensioners were based on life expectancy after retirement of 5 may be 10 years. We are now seeing pensioners live well into their 90s, meaning the cost of their pension is 3x what it was originally thought to be. You factor in social care and health care costs too and suddenly you appreciate today's pensioners have paid in nowhere near enough.

the issue is that pensioners forma huge voting block, and governments are scared of upsetting the block for fear of losing large swathes of votes.

something had to be done, although whether the way to finance it was the way chosen by this government is debatable.

I think this is sticking plaster

Pensioners tend to vote tory and read the daily mail

If there were tax rises across the board , which is needed to claw things back , then half the country would be up in arms

The tories have been in charge for 11 years now , they have to break out of this no tax increases nonsense

[Feedback]

I think this is sticking plaster

Pensioners tend to vote tory and read the daily mail

If there were tax rises across the board , which is needed to claw things back , then half the country would be up in arms

The tories have been in charge for 11 years now , they have to break out of this no tax increases nonsense

Sludge

this government is collecting more in tax than any government before it. We currently pay around 35% of GDP in taxation. The Tories are not a party of low taxes, a complete myth peddled by the party and its supporters.

People seem to be ignoring that employers will also pay an extra 1.25% NIER and shareholders will also pay an extra 1.25% on dividends.

The devil is in the detail, and if this was Labour announcing these tax rises and spend decisions, those on the left would be hailing it as revolutionary and much needed. which it is.

[Rjk]

they should raise inheritance tax. make it massive. close the loopholes that people avoid paying it.

many older people are sitting on huge property values that by mostly luck have increased incredibly while they've lived there. they've done nothing to create that increase it has just happened.
people inheriting that wealth have done nothing to earn it either other than be born to the right people

[Feedback]

they should raise inheritance tax. make it massive. close the loopholes that people avoid paying it.

many older people are sitting on huge property values that by mostly luck have increased incredibly while they've lived there. they've done nothing to create that increase it has just happened.
people inheriting that wealth have done nothing to earn it either other than be born to the right people

inheritance tax is 40%, the second highest rate of tax after surtax on employment income.

why should the state take someone's house after they die?

[Rjk]

inheritance tax is 40%, the second highest rate of tax after surtax on employment income.

why should the state take someone's house after they die?

make it 100%

[Feedback]

make it 100%

why?

[Rjk]

why?

you don't need it when you're dead and your kids didn't do anything to earn it

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

LAs can stipulate that those tendering must meet certain obligations, such as a minimum level of pay. There is no reason why the LAs can't dictate the terms.

Well somethings not right because the carers in South Wales are all on 9 pound an hour

The private companies are making a killing on the backs of the vulnerable and the carers they employ

The council put the contracts out for care to care companies and those that get the work are the cheapest

That's the free market for you 😉

[Feedback]

Well somethings not right because the carers in South Wales are all on 9 pound an hour

The private companies are making a killing on the backs of the vulnerable and the carers they employ

The council put the contracts out for care to care companies and those that get the work are the cheapest

That's the free market for you ��

surely the council can state in the tender what the terms of engagement must be...the council hold all the aces, but they put out to tender for the lowest cost bidder.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Dividend tax is also going up by 1.5% - so if like me you are a director of your own company I'll pay 1.5% extra NI as an employee, 1.5% extra as an employer and 1.5% extra for dividends.

My wife and I are both employees and directors fo in total thats 9%....

Kin hell

[Feedback]

Kin hell

its not 9% sludge, that's a little wide of the mark

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

As I see it not much has changed and the new arrangements are far from being a solution to the problem of long term care. The government's statement is all smoke and mirrors. Originally I thought the government had at least made a decision about future care but the bottom line is that even under the new arrangements, once savings are exhausted, houses will have to be sold to pay for the housing element of care for a single individual as well as for care itself. This of course pre-supposes that the house is not required to house a partner/spouse who is able to remain as that component is not included.

Many thanks to Carl Dale who has advanced my understanding of the situation.

It's fair to say I wouldn't vote conservative if it were my last act on earth

However what have Labour and the liberals , together stronger .......suggested ?

[Fine Lines]

Just jumping on this thread as the whole thing confuses me.

My situation is I own 50% of my mothers home as tenants in common. I also have power of attorney set up.

My mother does not need care home etc at the moment but I’m unsure as to what I can do to protect the house ?

[Feedback]

Just jumping on this thread as the whole thing confuses me.

My situation is I own 50% of my mothers home as tenants in common. I also have power of attorney set up.

My mother does not need care home etc at the moment but I’m unsure as to what I can do to protect the house ?

given it is unlikely your mother has paid enough NICs in her lifetime to cover her social care, who do you think should pay for your mothers care, if it came to that?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

We went through years of austerity where so many things were cut. Is this latest announcement proof that there is no more left to cut, even that austerity was the wrong course of action?