FT: WALES 0 - 0 ESTONIA. Match thread

[City123]

Was awful and has been terrible recently apart from the Turkey performance.

We basicslly wasted the first half practicing our passing and keeping possesion against a team who are happy to give it up. I know there were injuries but its not good enough.

This passing philosophy isnt going to get us anywhere as any decent team we are coming up against are going to do it better, plus Allen and Morrell arent good enough. We have good ball carriers in the forward positions and shpuld be utilising that. The passing was so slow that by the time the ball got to anyone decent they were covered.

We should have won the game but its been poor under Page for long enough.

I think his stubborn attitude towards older players left is massively short for options in this squad. I said it before but dont tell me that Vokes or Evans wouldnt have offered more than Colwill or Roberts playing out of position.

Sam Vokes wouldn't, he wasn't particularly impressive when he was in his 20s nevermind now. I assume you're on about Ched? He's not worth the hassle and at 32 (33 in December) isn't a realistic long term option anyway

Harris should have started both games, he's the only recognised striker in the squad.

[mazadona10]

Its not a long term option of course not but they are more like for like with moore. These games are now. Especially when teams are going to flood the middle and you have to try and get something in the box to work a chance. Yes we did manage to get through the middle a couple of times but we didnt create enough. Page saying had enough chances to win 2 games is trying to cover his own tracks.

[City123]

Its not a long term option of course not but they are more like for like with moore. These games are now. Especially when teams are going to flood the middle and you have to try and get something in the box to work a chance. Yes we did manage to get through the middle a couple of times but we didnt create enough. Page saying had enough chances to win 2 games is trying to cover his own tracks.

I think we do need actual strikers on the pitch, we look far better and more structured, but Vokes/Evans aren't the answer for me.

[bluesp]

Sorry, I think the last part of your post is pre 2016 thinking, Wales have moved on and nothing but six points would do from games against teams sixty and ninety places below us in the world rankings.

No need for the sorry, it's all about opinions isn't it? I prefer to look for the positives where possible, a stronger squad over the next 4 games and we can still finish 2nd in the group and get some momentum going in to a play off.

[bluesp]

4 points over two games against those teams is bad. The team we had out yesterday was more than strong enough to beat an awful Estonian team.

Agreed we should have won last night, and had the chances to do so. I think we will win away in Estonia as they'll be forced to come at us more and leave more gaps. I fancy us to perform better in October and November than these recent early season performances.

[City123]

Last night's result really heaps pressure on the net round of fixtures. There's no room for more slip ups now if we want a decent draw in the playoffs. We could have gone into that 2 points clear of the Czechs with a game in hand, now we have to get something away in Prague and go and beat Estonia away in the space of 3 days

[Don Corleone]

Last night's result really heaps pressure on the net round of fixtures. There's no room for more slip ups now if we want a decent draw in the playoffs. We could have gone into that 2 points clear of the Czechs with a game in hand, now we have to get something away in Prague and go and beat Estonia away in the space of 3 days

Very true, a win yesterday would have meant a point away in the Czech Republic and we wouldn’t need to worry about getting anything from the Belgium game to come 2nd, now there is pressure on to come away with a min 4 points from those 2 games. Estonia were not very good, we should beat them at home even if it’s only by one goal

[Dave Blue]

Great, good for you. Now why do you feel the need to join a Wales thread to tell us who have the intelligence and emotional capacity to support a club AND national team to stop talking about it? Just leave us to it

Quite a bizzare thing to say wasn't it. No logic whatsoever.

[Citizen's Nephew]

No late winner to paper over Welsh attacking limitations this time – a really bad night.

Young attackers still not doing enough as Keiffer Moore is badly missed.

http://mauveandyellowarmy.net/

100% agree that Giggs should have done the honorable thing and put Wales first. I think it's a fair reflection of the match and performance but I do feel you're being very charitable in describing Page as being 'limited tactically'.

I came home really disappointed with everyone and I'm not even convinced Moore could have saved that managerial performance. Let's face it, Bale got him out of jail against Belarus. But talking of Bale, I watched him off the ball last night and I was struck by just how unfit he looks. In the first half, he made a run down the right flank with a burst of slowish speed by his standards which beat an average Estonian RB(?) to make a cross which was poor. There were roughly 20 mins on the clock. I'm pretty sure the cameras wouldn't have picked him out bent over, hands on knees, recovering whilst play is happening in the centre of the park (did they?). That's 20 mins in.

In the second half, I can't recall a single right flank attack (and if there was I must have blinked) because the second half consisted of a rinse and repeat festival of football consisting of an 'attack' which went: Ward to Ampadu to Davies to James and then something involving Williams falling over or an Estonian making a mistake only for MOM IMO Hein to pull off an obscenely brilliant save.

Morell shouldn't be in a Wales squad (4 loan spells from Bristol City to Sutton, Margate, Cheltenham and Lincoln) before heading off to Luton and ending up with Portsmouth. In that time he's scored 3 goals over all clubs between 2013 - 2021. He's made 21 senior appearances for Wales since 2019! How?

I really feel for Vaulks.

Estonia made 5 substitutions (2 @ 20mins to go when they were knackered and we made none in that same period). Page made 2 (one forced because of Wilson's injury but chose to bring on a Swindon player who was released by Cardiff City) and Harris for Roberts. One of the Estonian subs was @ 30 mins in.

Yes, I think you're being very charitable in describing Page as 'limited tactically'. I think the man's an awful manager and typifies everything I dislike about the FAW's current approach. The match against Denmark should have been his last.

[Citizen's Nephew]

beat an average Estonian RB(?)

obviously meant LB(?)

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

obviously meant LB(?)

I disagree about Vaulks; we have a way of playing that he wouldn't manage. I'm not enamoured with Morrell either but he's been brought through the system and can trap a ball most of the time.

The players who should be taking his place in the long run are Levitt and Smith (it looks like Ampadu will become a centre half) but are probably deemed to be too inexperienced at present. It's not ideal but there it is. Our conveyor belt runs a little slower most of the time.

Bale's fitness has been discussed for a while. He's been burning those hamstrings off for 16 years but still managed to burst through to hit the post near the end. This was the rusty international break too.

Edit: It's not often you see a sub subbed but Williams should've been taken off; he was being bullied out of everything.

[City123]

I disagree about Vaulks; we have a way of playing that he wouldn't manage. I'm not enamoured with Morrell either but he's been brought through the system and can trap a ball most of the time.

The players who should be taking his place in the long run are Levitt and Smith (it looks like Ampadu will become a centre half) but are probably deemed to be too inexperienced at present. It's not ideal but there it is. Our conveyor belt runs a little slower most of the time.

Bale's fitness has been discussed for a while. He's been burning those hamstrings off for 16 years but still managed to burst through to hit the post near the end. This was the rusty international break too.

Edit: It's not often you see a sub subbed but Williams should've been taken off; he was being bullied out of everything.

Williams was the completely wrong player to bring on. Headless chicken. Wilson was stretching Estonia's defence by running in behind, Williams didn't do that once as far as I can recall.

[Don Corleone]

Williams was the completely wrong player to bring on. Headless chicken. Wilson was stretching Estonia's defence by running in behind, Williams didn't do that once as far as I can recall.

Agree, Brennan Johnson should have come on for Wilson, it would have been much more like for like and Johnson did okay against Belarus. Williams would have been worth a gamble with 15 mins left to go by taking off Morrell

[Citizen's Nephew]

Williams was the completely wrong player to bring on. Headless chicken. Wilson was stretching Estonia's defence by running in behind, Williams didn't do that once as far as I can recall.

Even Roberts was making runs early on and I thought looked lively until 15 minutes when a hologram took his place. It didn't come off but they completely stopped trying after rattling the Estonian CBs. There were acres of space early on and they were there for the taking. We had plenty of subs to play and fresh legs to start the match against a side like Estonia at Cardiff.

I can't help feeling we could have rested an aging Bale and Allen until the second half (if needed), started with Harris, and rotated a rested midfield who are quick and lively. Page had so many better options and a more than adequate bench after a long trip and tough win a few days earlier. We were playing the minnows at home and bottled it.

I agree with Bluebirdman that he should have subbed the sub, probably at 50 mins when we really needed a goal. Some managers are indecisive. He was found wanting against Denmark so shouldn't have been allowed to manage vital WCQs after that match.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Agree, Brennan Johnson should have come on for Wilson, it would have been much more like for like and Johnson did okay against Belarus. Williams would have been worth a gamble with 15 mins left to go by taking off Morrell

Agree apart from Williams who I never want to see in a Wales squad again. He just doesn't need to be there and in my view, doesn't deserve to be anymore. I'm so not a sentimentalist and Gunter should have been hooked to give us some attacking options on the right (yes I know he put Wilson through early on but was poor after that. Estonia weren't a threat on either flank - we could have played a completely different formation halfway through the first half when they'd been worked out.

[Rhiwbina Blues]

I dont understand this blooding of youth in qualifying matches. We need to have players who have scored at international level available from the bench.

Surely Chester, Vaulks, Andy King, Tom Laurence, Vokes, Robson-Kanu and Ched Evan's would be better options?

King should be starting instead of Morrell.

[City123]

I dont understand this blooding of youth in qualifying matches. We need to have players who have scored at international level available from the bench.

Surely Chester, Vaulks, Andy King, Tom Laurence, Vokes, Robson-Kanu and Ched Evan's would be better options?

King should be starting instead of Morrell.

Vaulks can't control or pass the ball, Lawrence was injured, Vokes was never particularly impressive when he was in his prime, never mind now, Robson-Kanu doesn't have a club, Evans isn't worth the trouble picking him would bring. King I think should be in there though, Chester I suppose can't be relied upon fitness wise

We had the players in the squad to win, they weren't properly utilised by Page

[Baloo]

For much of that game it was almost as if we'd convinced ourselves we'd need to be patient to the extent we just waited for things to happen, rather than imposing ourselves but staying calm if they proved resilient.

[Citizen's Nephew]

For much of that game it was almost as if we'd convinced ourselves we'd need to be patient to the extent we just waited for things to happen, rather than imposing ourselves but staying calm if they proved resilient.

It's kind of weird because I know what you mean but we certainly didn't seem calm and did everything at 100mph except have a plan to impose ourselves. A lot of throw-ins, free-kicks, were rushed and there didn't seem to be any training-ground moves on show.

I was going to ask a general question about Sheehan and found this piece in The Bolton News.