Where do we go from here?

[UNDERHILL1927]

We haven't got the players to dramatically change our style and Tan isn't willing to invest big (rightly so in the middle of a pandemic if I'm letting my head rule my heart). We are stuck with what we have got sadly; do we really think a better manager could do much better with what we have left at the club? Tactics are poor yes, but we lack any real quality or creativity and haven't filled the massive gap that Tomlin has left in the squad. I've never seen a Cardiff team that looks so uncomfortable on the ball, the basics just aren't there.

[insider]

As said before it starts above Mick McCarthy.
The club has been mis managed for years by Tans cronies that have absolutely no football knowledge at all.
It's all well and good saying we have no creativity or pace but the club hasn't just stumbled upon this it's been allowed to happen over several seasons.
Anyone who thought Harris and then mick would be the answer in the long run ie Dalmen Choo and Tan showed that lack of knowledge.
Fans see a win at Forest and can't see the bigger picture.
You need to have a long term plan change the club from top to bottom and as a fan accept short term losses for the bigger picture.

[the other bob wilson]

As said before it starts above Mick McCarthy.
The club has been mis managed for years by Tans cronies that have absolutely no football knowledge at all.
It's all well and good saying we have no creativity or pace but the club hasn't just stumbled upon this it's been allowed to happen over several seasons.
Anyone who thought Harris and then mick would be the answer in the long run ie Dalmen Choo and Tan showed that lack of knowledge.
Fans see a win at Forest and can't see the bigger picture.
You need to have a long term plan change the club from top to bottom and as a fan accept short term losses for the bigger picture.

[surge]

These threads should start by posting link to side Warnock left us (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E...ty_F.C._season) and posters saying what they would have done differently since.

Most will say they'd spend money or magically get the players playing a different style....would you actually have done differently to what the board have done since Warnock left?

Next step is asking where we'll be at the end of the season and whether we think we'll need to change direction at that point. That's the next time we have a clean slate.

[blue lewj]

These threads should start by posting link to side Warnock left us (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E...ty_F.C._season) and posters saying what they would have done differently since.

Most will say they'd spend money or magically get the players playing a different style....would you actually have done differently to what the board have done since Warnock left?

Next step is asking where we'll be at the end of the season and whether we think we'll need to change direction at that point. That's the next time we have a clean slate.

In short, what I would have done as a board if they were serious about going in a new direction would be not to have employed Neil Harris followed by Mick McCarthy.

I'm not even sure anybody at the club knows what they want other than to save money. If they are or ever were serious about changing the way we play and being a more footballing, entertaining team then their choice of manager since that statement (Harris and McCarthy) is worrying.

The fans are slowly getting fed up with it and I can honestly see it hitting attendances soon. What then, save more money? Play all of the Under 23s?

[surge]

In short, what I would have done as a board if they were serious about going in a new direction would be not to have employed Neil Harris followed by Mick McCarthy.

I'm not even sure anybody at the club knows what they want other than to save money. If they are or ever were serious about changing the way we play and being a more footballing, entertaining team then their choice of manager since that statement (Harris and McCarthy) is worrying.

The fans are slowly getting fed up with it and I can honestly see it hitting attendances soon. What then, save more money? Play all of the Under 23s?

What manager are you hiring to change style of play who can't be promised money to spend on squad? What manager is interested in coming to work with players Warnock left?

Simple facts are that Warnock left a squad which wasn't ready to compete for promotion (at least in a non-covid year) and work Harris and Mick have done so far suggests our squad will be far closer to that once they've gone*.

*depending on what is done at end of this season in terms of renewals and replacements. If we play hoofball next year then concerns about what we're teaching the kids are well founded.

Fans might not be inclined to stick around but that's not the best measure of how well things are going - they usually show up in number right at the end of a process when things are obviously better.

[blue lewj]

Changes needed at the top. Grateful to Tan but if he thinks Dalman and Choo are the people to guide us then he is wrong.
If he wants any return on his investment and to stop the club hemorrhaging money then he needs the right people in place.
People might point to the two promotions we got. I think about 80% of this board could have taken us up with the budget Malky had and they just struck lucky with Warnock as he is very good at manipulating those around him to get what he wants and at most clubs he has short term success. A stopped clock is right twice a day.

As for the footballing style I think rip off the plaster now rather than this gradual change in philosophy (is it even happening?).
We are throwing kids into the mix as a cost cutting measure and labelling it 'bringing through youth' like it is some well thought out plan. Problem being these kids try to play football then hit a first team and manager that actively encourages getting rid of the ball as quickly as possible and has under the last three manager including Mick.

Saying we have no money and we can't play that way with what we have just compounds the problem for me and excuses what they are doing. To change things they need to at least start going in that direction. All the money needs to be spent on improving our playing style. Signing midfielders, loaning them out and sticking with your toothless and ponderous midfield will not see change any time soon.

For anything to happen though the board need to have even the slightest idea what they are doing or plan to do. We need change at board level and nothing they have done since being here convinces me otherwise.

[Forest Green Bluebird]

We are throwing kids into the mix as a cost cutting measure and labelling it 'bringing through youth' like it is some well thought out plan. Problem being these kids try to play football then hit a first team and manager that actively encourages getting rid of the ball as quickly as possible and has under the last three manager including Mick.

Jason Perry included this point in his rant on the radio earlier.

The academy / under-23s have got used to the Steve Morrison style of play. Being promoted into a team playing in a completely different manner is hopefully not going to harm their careers going forward.

He went on to criticise the shortcomings of those who give out lengthy contracts to players who arguably have not deserved them. Unsure whether MM is on a 3-year contract.

[surge]

It seems so weird to think that "greater focus on youth" can only be about cost-cutting or about implementing a strategy and not a bit of both.

There is clearly a desire to have a pathway from youth to first team now and small connection's between Bagan and Colwill - or the second Forest goal - is evidence of that but still some way to go.

Patience and support needed this season though. I mean, Birmingham and Huddersfield are in the process of changing styles but lost by multiple goals to sides in the relegation spots, Swansea are in the process but have picked up one win this season while Fulham and West Brom are expected by many to blow everyone away and yesterday picked a point collectively.

We can talk about whether Mick is right man for next season's task towards the end of this season but time to recognise i) we're very slowly going through a process of change and ii) every side this year is going to have at least one really frustrating day.

We should also probably recognise that Derby are in the worst position in the league (they have 8 players on the books for next season, 5 under the age of 22 and desperately needing to sell) but they had a large supportive crowd yesterday. We as fans have a role to play as well.

[Rock_Flock_of_Five]

I woke up with a hangover, watching that rubbish served to us last night - and I hadn't even been drinking.

[Hilts]

Mick keeps us in the division for the next 2 years brings through a core of young players and a new coach when his contract expires.

You cant just write off the 2 promotions as a cheque book achievement and lucky.

Malky took a depleted squad in a mess left by 442 Jones who had splashed the cash including pathetic money wasted on the likes of Fowler JFH Sinclair and got us up with Helgusson as a free as our striker.

Warnock took us from a possible relegation scrap to the PL.

Its going to be a difficult few years. Stay in the division and bring through young players looks the plan.

[WJ99mobile]

Mick keeps us in the division for the next 2 years brings through a core of young players and a new coach when his contract expires.

You cant just write off the 2 promotions as a cheque book achievement and lucky.

Malky took a depleted squad in a mess left by 442 Jones who had splashed the cash including pathetic money wasted on the likes of Fowler JFH Sinclair and got us up with Helgusson as a free as our striker.

Warnock took us from a possible relegation scrap to the PL.

Its going to be a difficult few years. Stay in the division and bring through young players looks the plan.

Tend to agree with that

We haven't flourished like we could have, but we haven't withered like so many others.

Yes we could have been Brighton or Leicester, but we could have also been Derby, Wednesday etc.

[Der Kaiser]

Mick keeps us in the division for the next 2 years brings through a core of young players and a new coach when his contract expires.

You cant just write off the 2 promotions as a cheque book achievement and lucky.

Malky took a depleted squad in a mess left by 442 Jones who had splashed the cash including pathetic money wasted on the likes of Fowler JFH Sinclair and got us up with Helgusson as a free as our striker.

Warnock took us from a possible relegation scrap to the PL.

Its going to be a difficult few years. Stay in the division and bring through young players looks the plan.

Reluctantly agree with this. Won't be pretty at all, we're just going to have to survive for a few years and hopefully turn a corner like Stoke/Brum appear to have done.

[Cardiff Ultra]

Mick keeps us in the division for the next 2 years brings through a core of young players and a new coach when his contract expires.

You cant just write off the 2 promotions as a cheque book achievement and lucky.

Malky took a depleted squad in a mess left by 442 Jones who had splashed the cash including pathetic money wasted on the likes of Fowler JFH Sinclair and got us up with Helgusson as a free as our striker.

Warnock took us from a possible relegation scrap to the PL.

Its going to be a difficult few years. Stay in the division and bring through young players looks the plan.

Yeah all that money Jones wasted...

Season CCFC transfer spend CCFC transfer income Manager
05/06 1.58m 4.46m Jones
06/07 1.72m 4.01m Jones
07/08 0 10.31m Jones
08/09 1.11m 8.89m Jones
09/10 6.82m 5.72m Jones
10/11 0.11m 0.4m Jones
11/12 2.56m 1.73m Malky
12/13 11.77m 1.38m Malky
13/14 41.23m 3.37m Malky

[ToTaL ITK]

Yeah all that money Jones wasted...

Season CCFC transfer spend CCFC transfer income Manager
05/06 1.58m 4.46m Jones
06/07 1.72m 4.01m Jones
07/08 0 10.31m Jones
08/09 1.11m 8.89m Jones
09/10 6.82m 5.72m Jones
10/11 0.11m 0.4m Jones
11/12 2.56m 1.73m Malky
12/13 11.77m 1.38m Malky
13/14 41.23m 3.37m Malky

Its not unusual so lets bring back Jones

[SunderlandBluebird]

That was the worst performance I’ve seen in a long time last night. Cannot remember a game where we barely had a shot never mind tested the keeper in a while. You could even question the effort of a few of the players.

It will be a tough season results wise no doubt with bringing through a few youngsters but it’s the manner of the performances for me. I’m not sure what Colwill and Harris will have learned yesterday from chasing 15 balls into the channel and seeing how many throw ins they can win. That genuinely seemed the tactic. Can’t get on board with McCarthy at all, last time I remember a reaction that bad in the away end was Swansea away under Warnock.

[life on mars]

Huge change of ownership and structure which brings its own risks, ask Swansea, Sunderland Portsmouth .

[Tuerto]

Huge change of ownership and structure which brings its own risks, ask Swansea, Sunderland Portsmouth .

It doesn't even take that. Someone who understands the game at board level would be a start. That's hardly revolutionary.

[blue lewj]

This almost guarantee that Mick will keep us in the division while throwing kids in at all angles is far from certain in my opinion.

If teams could throw kids in and it was just a case of them getting exposure and improving and they will reach the level required then every team would do it. Why spend money if it was that easy?
I've seen a few signs one or two of our kids may not be up to it. Give the kids chance yes, when they are good enough and when the situation allows and their confidence doesn't get shot to bits. I don't think some of the kids are at the level needed and it certainly isn't an environment to nurture them and gradually bring them into the team. Apart from against Blackpool we've been bad for large spells of the other games. It is worrying.

[DubaiDai]

This almost guarantee that Mick will keep us in the division while throwing kids in at all angles is far from certain in my opinion.

If teams could throw kids in and it was just a case of them getting exposure and improving and they will reach the level required then every team would do it. Why spend money if it was that easy?
I've seen a few signs one or two of our kids may not be up to it. Give the kids chance yes, when they are good enough and when the situation allows and their confidence doesn't get shot to bits. I don't think some of the kids are at the level needed and it certainly isn't an environment to nurture them and gradually bring them into the team. Apart from against Blackpool we've been bad for large spells of the other games. It is worrying.

Agree with part of this. If fans truly believe we have too much to be relegated then they are under an illusion.
Check the tables again after 15 games and see where we are. Also ask our friends down west if they think they have too much quality to go down.
Yes we seem to be playing many more youngsters, but are they being coached the Mick way ?

[Dorcus]

As said before it starts above Mick McCarthy.
The club has been mis managed for years by Tans cronies that have absolutely no football knowledge at all.
It's all well and good saying we have no creativity or pace but the club hasn't just stumbled upon this it's been allowed to happen over several seasons.
Anyone who thought Harris and then mick would be the answer in the long run ie Dalmen Choo and Tan showed that lack of knowledge.
Fans see a win at Forest and can't see the bigger picture.
You need to have a long term plan change the club from top to bottom and as a fan accept short term losses for the bigger picture.

Hear hear

[198bore]

The youth will be ruined here, frantically hooking balls into the channel and scrapping for seconds. Cardiff is no place to learn your craft.

[NYCBlue]

We haven't got the players to dramatically change our style and Tan isn't willing to invest big (rightly so in the middle of a pandemic if I'm letting my head rule my heart). We are stuck with what we have got sadly; do we really think a better manager could do much better with what we have left at the club? Tactics are poor yes, but we lack any real quality or creativity and haven't filled the massive gap that Tomlin has left in the squad. I've never seen a Cardiff team that looks so uncomfortable on the ball, the basics just aren't there.

We can't go anywhere. We're stuck for another 20 months. At least.

[City123]

We can't go anywhere. We're stuck for another 20 months. At least.

I still can't quite believe they gave Mick a 2 year deal

[Tuerto]

I still can't quite believe they gave Mick a 2 year deal

It'll probably get extended before Christmas, knowing those absolute pellets.