Where do we go from here?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

If we go down our crowds don't go above 10,000 and we have even less money to invest in our academy, (needed development in our) scouting, transfer dealings....

Positive change gets further away on every measure.

Ok. Hoofball forever.

Great.

[surge]

The danger is over expectation on the youngsters.
MM has to man-manage the youngsters and cant expect them to perform like seasoned pros week in week out. Rubin had a great game at Forest but starting him at Coventry should never have happened. MM was basically asking him to pick up where he left off and, for a youngster, was way too much to expect.

I agree that high expectations need to be avoided as well as avoiding need to rely on them performing.

I guess that Mick's been brought in to help avoid that and I don't know if he was teaching Colwill a hard lesson about need to manage emotions, thought Colwill had done that and it didn't quite work for him (not unexpected with someone starting out) so is protecting him by making it about manager's error or it was simply the manager's error in picking the same side.

[surge]

Ok. Hoofball forever.

Great.

If Sludge wants hoofball and Blue Lewj wants us to use magic beans then I fall somewhere in the middle.

We're not fully moving away from physical style in near future but majority of signs suggests constant hoofball is being moved away from and soon enough.

[dembethewarrior]

Since Mick McCarthy joined, Cardiff have amassed more away points than any other team in the league.

*Sorry to ‘piss on the chips’, and apologies to all the experts, (and drama queens) on here .

How dare people have an opinion on ccfc on a ccfc MB

[Des Parrot]

1995-1998 or present day, you choose.

[the other bob wilson]

I think an awful lot of people are making the assumption that we're in the process of changing our style without there being enough evidence yet that we are. Yes, we're suddenly picking Academy players after a long period where we weren't, but that could be out of financial necessity and we'll be back to what has become our norm if and when we're able to spend again.

[AfricanBluebird]

I think an awful lot of people are making the assumption that we're in the process of changing our style without there being enough evidence yet that we are. Yes, we're suddenly picking Academy players after a long period where we weren't, but that could be out of financial necessity and we'll be back to what has become our norm if and when we're able to spend again.

I think it is inevitable that some of the youngsters will come in and bring their own strengths to the team - I was impressed with Bowen for 20 minutes in the second half on Sunday - he wanted to pass the ball short and was far more composed on the ball than any other player. However, recognising that, Coventry dropped a player into midfield and all of the sudden Bowen was over run... and surprise surprise we reverted to long ball panic punts.

But you're right - I see little or no evidence of a step change to the way we play - players coming in are expected to fit into the system and there is very little room for changing style.

Can you imagine Paul, that we have NO wide players in the squad - both of our wing backs are not natural wide players and we have no wingers - maybe Giles - but he is injured and we haven't played him wide as the formation doesn't lend itself to wide players. So Mick can't even go to an effective 442.

I must say that while supporting city for over 30 years, seeing a team with no natural pace or wingers is one of the most bizarre situations I have ever seen.

And the reality is, all fans like pacey players with some flair.

I do understand our limited approach and players we have and we can't all of the sudden try and play like Barca, but no wingers? no pace? no flair? no passing?... that's just barmy.

[the other bob wilson]

I think it is inevitable that some of the youngsters will come in and bring their own strengths to the team - I was impressed with Bowen for 20 minutes in the second half on Sunday - he wanted to pass the ball short and was far more composed on the ball than any other player. However, recognising that, Coventry dropped a player into midfield and all of the sudden Bowen was over run... and surprise surprise we reverted to long ball panic punts.

But you're right - I see little or no evidence of a step change to the way we play - players coming in are expected to fit into the system and there is very little room for changing style.

Can you imagine Paul, that we have NO wide players in the squad - both of our wing backs are not natural wide players and we have no wingers - maybe Giles - but he is injured and we haven't played him wide as the formation doesn't lend itself to wide players. So Mick can't even go to an effective 442.

I must say that while supporting city for over 30 years, seeing a team with no natural pace or wingers is one of the most bizarre situations I have ever seen.

And the reality is, all fans like pacey players with some flair.

I do understand our limited approach and players we have and we can't all of the sudden try and play like Barca, but no wingers? no pace? no flair? no passing?... that's just barmy.

I keep on returning to it, but, after we lost at Coventry last season as it happens, Neil Harris decided to go "back to basics" after an alleged desire to play more football failed to produce the desired results. It's a results driven business of course, but that was an admission that the squad he had could not play the more rounded game that was being asked for to a high enough standard. That's a startling acknowledgement, given the tens of millions spent on putting the squad we had after the summer 2019 transfer window together.

As for our lack of wingers, I thought they were part of the problem because they weren't delivering on a consistent enough basis once Hoilett began to lose his pace and am not unhappy that the likes of him, Mendez-Laing, Murphy and Whyte are no longer in the squad. However, I expected to see some replacements coming in, Giles is a plus and Keiron Evans could play out there, but neither of them are what I would call wingers and, in both cases, I'd argue they're more effective in other positions.

The best modern wing backs have flair and spend more time attacking than they do defending, but, when we've used wing backs, the players concerned, with the possible exception of Tom Sang have been, first and foremost, defenders and any quality they produce in attacking play is almost regarded as a bonus. Ng has some quality when crossing (the one he put in for Collins on Wednesday couldn't have been bettered by a Giles, Hoilett or Whitts) and Bagan keeps on getting into positions where you feel goals should be coming from him, but, generally speaking, the quality of crossing without Giles in the side leaves much to be desired and opponents of ours will figure they've been unlucky if one of our wing backs scores against them, because, generally speaking, their finishing has not been good enough.

[UNDERHILL1927]

How dare people have an opinion on ccfc on a ccfc MB

Haha makes you a drama queen apparently.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

If Sludge wants hoofball and Blue Lewj wants us to use magic beans then I fall somewhere in the middle.

We're not fully moving away from physical style in near future but majority of signs suggests constant hoofball is being moved away from and soon enough.

Really?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Haha makes you a drama queen apparently.

Drama queen's who watch us I can tolerate

[surge]

I think an awful lot of people are making the assumption that we're in the process of changing our style without there being enough evidence yet that we are. Yes, we're suddenly picking Academy players after a long period where we weren't, but that could be out of financial necessity and we'll be back to what has become our norm if and when we're able to spend again.

In my opinion, you can't look at:

1. The players we've recently let go (sale or release), and
2. The players we're bringing in (signings or from academy), and
3. Young players coming here after release from likes of Man United, Leeds and Arsenal in a way Brentford picked up second best from London clubs, and
4. Steve Morrison saying we're not going to stock-pile young players and are only interested in youth that we believe in, and
5. Choosing not to swell up the squad that takes away attention from the youth we have, and
6. Players that we're linked with but not ending up here going to "progressive clubs" such as Huddersfield or Luton - whether they become successes or not ...

And not say we're doing things differently to what we were three/four years ago. (That is potentially because players Warnock was interested in three/four years ago simply don't exist any more because whole of UK football has moved on.)

Of course I'm not saying everything is going right but I think "yet" is an apt word because we're either going to see all this come off (while still being Nuno's Wolves rather than Bruno's) or I'm reading too much into all these small signs and we get our next off-season badly wrong.

I'm just saying have a bit more patience and wait and see which it is

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

In my opinion, you can't look at:

1. The players we've recently let go (sale or release), and
2. The players we're bringing in (signings or from academy), and
3. Young players coming here after release from likes of Man United, Leeds and Arsenal in a way Brentford picked up second best from London clubs, and
4. Steve Morrison saying we're not going to stock-pile young players and are only interested in youth that we believe in, and
5. Choosing not to swell up the squad that takes away attention from the youth we have, and
6. Players that we're linked with but not ending up here going to "progressive clubs" such as Huddersfield or Luton - whether they become successes or not ...

And not say we're doing things differently to what we were three/four years ago. (That is potentially because players Warnock was interested in three/four years ago simply don't exist any more because whole of UK football has moved on.)

Of course I'm not saying everything is going right but I think "yet" is an apt word because we're either going to see all this come off (while still being Nuno's Wolves rather than Bruno's) or I'm reading too much into all these small signs and we get our next off-season badly wrong.

I'm just saying have a bit more patience and wait and see which it is

Absolutely let's have patience

People are acting like jury , judge and executioners and he's not even been with us a year for Christ's sake

MM and TC should have our support not this constant pestering and back stabbing

Mind you it's always been the same with our fans and I doubt it will ever change

Miserable moaning bastards

[dembethewarrior]

Haha makes you a drama queen apparently.

All a bit silly isn't it.

[City123]

I think an awful lot of people are making the assumption that we're in the process of changing our style without there being enough evidence yet that we are. Yes, we're suddenly picking Academy players after a long period where we weren't, but that could be out of financial necessity and we'll be back to what has become our norm if and when we're able to spend again.

I don't see how anyone can watch today's 90 minutes and think we're changing into a more progressive passing side, if anything we're becoming even more long ball!

[surge]

I don't see how anyone can watch today's 90 minutes and think we're changing into a more progressive passing side, if anything we're becoming even more long ball!

My point has been that often the 90minutes is the last thing to change and reflects positive moves that have already been made off-the-pitch. There are signs that positive moves are happening away from the pitch.

I don't expect too many changes to the 90 minutes this season, but I can't understand how anyone on the board (the one headed up by Dalman or this message board) can watch us today and think there isn't need to change.

[Forest Green Bluebird]

We are throwing kids into the mix as a cost cutting measure and labelling it 'bringing through youth' like it is some well thought out plan. Problem being these kids try to play football then hit a first team and manager that actively encourages getting rid of the ball as quickly as possible and has under the last three manager including Mick.

Jason Perry included this point in his rant on the radio earlier.

The academy / under-23s have got used to the Steve Morrison style of play. Being promoted into a team playing in a completely different manner is hopefully not going to harm their careers going forward.

He went on to criticise the shortcomings of those who give out lengthy contracts to players who arguably have not deserved them. Unsure whether MM is on a 3-year contract.

[City123]

We are throwing kids into the mix as a cost cutting measure and labelling it 'bringing through youth' like it is some well thought out plan. Problem being these kids try to play football then hit a first team and manager that actively encourages getting rid of the ball as quickly as possible and has under the last three manager including Mick.

Jason Perry included this point in his rant on the radio earlier.

The academy / under-23s have got used to the Steve Morrison style of play. Being promoted into a team playing in a completely different manner is hopefully not going to harm their careers going forward.

He went on to criticise the shortcomings of those who give out lengthy contracts to players who arguably have not deserved them. Unsure whether MM is on a 3-year contract.

2 year deal for Mick I think. Loads of contracts expire this summer though, perfect time to bring someone new in

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Where do we go from here ? In footballing terms nowhere fast. Our squad has degraded to an extent where all the clumsy, slow, footballers available have been found a home in south east Wales. Apart from drop down a division or 2, aka Coventry where completely re-building is possible but at extreme risk of staying there, all City can do is chip away one position at a time being careful not to make the situation on the pitch even worse.
We're precariously perched on a tightrope where too much tinkering in the wrong place or too quickly could see us slide rapidly towards the lower reaches of the Championship. In footballing terms we're just existing..

[billy.ronson]

Getting the line up @2pm , you knew what we were in for ...no pace in the team , no natural width with a converted midfielder and centre back at wing back. A workmanike midfield then Harris and Bacuna to try to get forward when they could to support Moore off a long ball hoping for a set piece. Bournemouth werent just a footballing team, they had strength and height too (Moore won very little yesterday and they nearly always picked up 2nd ball)on their team and so it proved to be. In our manager's own words post match "we set ourselves up to frustrate Bournemouth and it worked for 65 minutes ..." this is the formula for the season especially the next month of games playing some of the fancied teams!
the ambition is to not go down , let the high earners go , get free signings and hope the youth we have are good enough with the caveat that should they do well a decent offer may come in and we make some money .....understandable as Tan said change to blue and the club has to be self sufficient, he hasn't deviaited from that . People just have to decide if that is enough to make them want to pay to go and watch this season and hope a change if style is an option next season ....

[blue lewj]

What makes anybody think Mick can or will change style?

If he doesn't, and there was nothing yesterday to suggest he's seen the entertaining football light, then he will sign a load of new players to fit into a long ball system. That is then us stuck with it for another 2 years or so.

[surge]

It seems so weird to think that "greater focus on youth" can only be about cost-cutting or about implementing a strategy and not a bit of both.

There is clearly a desire to have a pathway from youth to first team now and small connection's between Bagan and Colwill - or the second Forest goal - is evidence of that but still some way to go.

Patience and support needed this season though. I mean, Birmingham and Huddersfield are in the process of changing styles but lost by multiple goals to sides in the relegation spots, Swansea are in the process but have picked up one win this season while Fulham and West Brom are expected by many to blow everyone away and yesterday picked a point collectively.

We can talk about whether Mick is right man for next season's task towards the end of this season but time to recognise i) we're very slowly going through a process of change and ii) every side this year is going to have at least one really frustrating day.

We should also probably recognise that Derby are in the worst position in the league (they have 8 players on the books for next season, 5 under the age of 22 and desperately needing to sell) but they had a large supportive crowd yesterday. We as fans have a role to play as well.