Another Brexit Bonus

[Doucas]

Nearly every 'prediction' of doom regarding Brexit has proven to be totally untrue. I can't think of a single one that hasn't? Maybe something around some fishing problems? Perhaps it's true when you re-read it that the predictions referred only to teething problems hidden behind apocalyptic headlines?

It was always going to be so, for three key reasons.

1 / the public generally don't vote against their own economic interests.

2 / the predictions were always nakedly political and impossible to obtain a genuine non partisan prediction for

3 / even if the predictions were true (and they werent) when circumstances or variables change then the results change. So for example if importing something from abroad did become trickier (and in some cases it has) then the purchaser is now probably buying the same product from within the UK. There's no net economic cost, just a change

Yeah just the £80 billion extra costs per year which has led to national insurance increasing. Exports and imports down significantly. Nhs and care on the brink due to staff shortages.

[JamesWales]

Yeah just the £80 billion extra costs per year which has led to national insurance increasing. Exports and imports down significantly. Nhs and care on the brink due to staff shortages.

That's made up stuff though isn't it. And if you think there were no staff shortages before 2020 then I have a bridge to sell you. National Insurance rises to cover social care. Looking after our elderly parents doesn't come free.

[Doucas]

That's made up stuff though isn't it. And if you think there were no staff shortages before 2020 then I have a bridge to sell you. National Insurance rises to cover social care. Looking after our elderly parents doesn't come free.

Please point out where I said there were never staff shortages before? Exactly I didn't, you know you've got such a weak argument there you actually just made up what I said and argued against that. But it's undeniable that brexit has made that situation far far worse.

£80 billion a year is widely quoted https://www.ft.com/content/6885073e-...9-5a7bc6122d72

And we wouldn't need to have increased national insurance if we weren't hemorrhaging money from brexit.

How much have the tories added to our debt? £1.1 trillion?! You say things aren't free but then you vote for a party who has decimated our economy.

Many in my generation are so utterly beyond fed up of people like you and are counting down the days until your voting block (which had all the advantages and passed **** all onto us) pisses off.

[JamesWales]

Please point out where I said there were never staff shortages before? Exactly I didn't, you know you've got such a weak argument there you actually just made up what I said and argued against that. But it's undeniable that brexit has made that situation far far worse.

£80 billion a year is widely quoted https://www.ft.com/content/6885073e-...9-5a7bc6122d72

And we wouldn't need to have increased national insurance if we weren't hemorrhaging money from brexit.

How much have the tories added to our debt? £1.1 trillion?! You say things aren't free but then you vote for a party who has decimated our economy.

Many in my generation are so utterly beyond fed up of people like you and are counting down the days until your voting block (which had all the advantages and passed **** all onto us) pisses off.

Yeah but our economy isn't decimated in the slightest

National debt increased, no question. But that's what furlough and the rest does.

And how old do you think I am btw🤣

Wishing death on people doesn't encourage people to see things your way either. It makes people think you must be a right bellend..won't listen to him then.

[life on mars]

You do get the feeling that people are preying Brexit doesnt develop into a positive ,driven by political views and dislike of certain politicians or parties, you would hope that people could celebrate success if that's the outcome.

Let's be fair though not one of us know if it be a success or failure , as this is a long journey , the one thing we can agree on its not been the devastation as some predicted , in fact some have seen welcome wage increases at the lower end of the pay scales and jobs like HGV drivers an there's jobs to be had.

[JamesWales]

You do get the feeling that people are preying Brexit doesnt develop into a positive ,driven by political views and dislike of certain politicians or parties, you would hope that people could celebrate success if that's the outcome.

Let's be fair though not one of us know if it be a success or failure , as this is a long journey , the one thing we can agree on its not been the devastation as some predicted , in fact some have seen welcome wage increases at the lower end of the pay scales and jobs like HGV drivers an there's jobs to be had.

This broadly is my views on it. I really think some don't want to see success. Generally those with more financial safety net I would suggest.

It's well past the time to move on

[Doucas]

You do get the feeling that people are preying Brexit doesnt develop into a positive ,driven by political views and dislike of certain politicians or parties, you would hope that people could celebrate success if that's the outcome.

Let's be fair though not one of us know if it be a success or failure , as this is a long journey , the one thing we can agree on its not been the devastation as some predicted , in fact some have seen welcome wage increases at the lower end of the pay scales and jobs like HGV drivers an there's jobs to be had.

What planet are you on? People are against brexit because it's devastating to the economy (source - https://fullfact.org/europe/online-c...contributions/), this isn't an opinion, it's a stone cold fact.

So stop saying NoBoDy KnOwS HoW iT wIlL TuRn OuT because I can't think of one realistic scenario where it brings in benefits, don't forget next year we will see more consequences.

Honestly I look around at the people who voted for brexit and it's usually people who are either old (and generally clueless about how their generation have destroyed the economy for young people) or were in the retard class at school.

[JamesWales]

What planet are you on? People are against brexit because it's devastating to the economy (source - https://fullfact.org/europe/online-c...contributions/), this isn't an opinion, it's a stone cold fact.

So stop saying NoBoDy KnOwS HoW iT wIlL TuRn OuT because I can't think of one realistic scenario where it brings in benefits, don't forget next year we will see more consequences.

Honestly I look around at the people who voted for brexit and it's usually people who are either old (and generally clueless about how their generation have destroyed the economy for young people) or were in the retard class at school.

Did you even read the article you posted as 'evidence'. Quote from the second paragraph

"While it’s difficult to put a single, definitive figure on the economic impact of Brexit, these claims don’t currently add up."

UK is currently outperforming our peers on most measures on official latest economic data. Do I need to repost this stuff again?!

It is too soon to form a clear opinion, especially with Covid, but to say Brexit is devastating the economy is frankly, plain wrong. Even if it is damaging (and the data doesnt suggest that but I'll accept it could be true in some cases) then you need a far more anodyne verb than 'devastating'.

I'm sure from other posts you are a rabidly anti-Thatcher too, so god knows why you now are so supportive of membership of a free-trading arrangement that is essentially Thatcherism on steroids.

Get a grip and realise it's nearly 2022 now, not 2016 or you'll just be even further left behind.

[ninian opinian]

Fantastic news. Go Brexit https://www.itv.com/news/2021-12-10/...ade-in-october

[Dorcus]

Fantastic news. Go Brexit https://www.itv.com/news/2021-12-10/...ade-in-october

Well done to Boris and his sycophants yet again 👍

[life on mars]

A lot of folk are now saying (including European modellers) that the UK will not have the predicted devastating turmoil we do need to move on and stop moaning .

[Dorcus]

A lot of folk are now saying (including European modellers) that the UK will not have the predicted devastating turmoil we do need to move on and stop moaning .

A lot of folks say lots of things (in a folksy sort of way). That's all folks 👍

[JamesWales]

A lot of folks say lots of things (in a folksy sort of way). That's all folks ��

Yes, the Annual GDP growth rates for the UK and the EU up until Quarter three 2022 are significantly in the UK's favour.

https://tradingeconomics.com/forecas...ntinent=europe

However, facts are always better than predictions, so we will wait and see.

In the meantime, I have them at hand for FBPE cultists.

[the other bob wilson]

Yes, the Annual GDP growth rates for the UK and the EU up until Quarter three 2022 are significantly in the UK's favour.

https://tradingeconomics.com/forecas...ntinent=europe

However, facts are always better than predictions, so we will wait and see.

In the meantime, I have them at hand for FBPE cultists.

Weren’t our most recent growth figures (announced last week) described as disappointing?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/15...cs-ONS-figures

[JamesWales]

Weren’t our most recent growth figures (announced last week) described as disappointing?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/15...cs-ONS-figures

Yep, the latest estimates, especially the monthly data were disappointing, albeit on the back of what were generally very good before that. The general picture remains pretty positive, all things considered and compared to our peers.

https://tradingeconomics.com/country...al-growth-rate

No one should get carried away because that would be unhelpful, but more so, no one should paint a disastrous picture that is manifestly false.

Unemployment and wage growth data out tomorrow.

Inflation on wednesday - that won't be pretty.

The fun never ends does it!?

[Rjk]

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so is Brexit bad? or have we just handled covid worse than anyone else?

[life on mars]

20211118_183619.jpg

so is Brexit bad? or have we just handled covid worse than anyone else?

We don't know until we get out of Covid .

I suggest its remarkable to see where we are considering the doom and gloom fired out by many over Brexit and then Covid .

Is the country more resilient than we thought and were the right decisions made .

And I do wonder if the painful austerity measures applied due to financial crash has given us some wriggle room, although it did cause pain for a lot of working folk ??

[the other bob wilson]

We don't know until we get out of Covid .

I suggest its remarkable to see where we are considering the doom and gloom fired out by many over Brexit and then Covid .

Is the country more resilient than we thought and were the right decisions made .

And I do wonder if the painful austerity measures applied due to financial crash has given us some wriggle room, although it did cause pain for a lot of working folk ??

It’s been claimed that it caused more than pain.

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom...than-expected/

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Although it's an urban myth that Mao stated that it was too early to tell what the effects of the French Revolution were, it's very early days to make an objective valuation about Brexit in this unusual short-term.
From a personal perspective, a friend of mine works in a food export business which is now laying off staff due to the bureacracy, difficulties and expense of exporting perishable food to the EU - and that's after they lost a quite a few EU citizens who were members of staff in the warehouse and decamped earlier this year due to Brexit. It seems that the company is either going to relocate in The Netherlands or go out of business. A singular anecdote and meaningless in the great scheme of things perhaps.
I also spend one weekend a month walking the South West Coast Path and staff shortages in pubs, cafés and restaurants are commonplace. It's not totally clear as to how much that problem is down to Covid and/or Brexit respectively but let's wait and see.

[Swiss Peter]

Although it's an urban myth that Mao stated that it was too early to tell what the effects of the French Revolution were, it's very early days to make an objective valuation about Brexit in this unusual short-term.
From a personal perspective, a friend of mine works in a food export business which is now laying off staff due to the bureacracy, difficulties and expense of exporting perishable food to the EU - and that's after they lost a quite a few EU citizens who were members of staff in the warehouse and decamped earlier this year due to Brexit. It seems that the company is either going to relocate in The Netherlands or go out of business. A singular anecdote and meaningless in the great scheme of things perhaps.
I also spend one weekend a month walking the South West Coast Path and staff shortages in pubs, cafés and restaurants are commonplace. It's not totally clear as to how much that problem is down to Covid and/or Brexit respectively but let's wait and see.

Quite right. We need to wait and see.

In the meantime we will all draw our own conclusions and interpretations from news as it emerges.

In that context, this looks a little desperate

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1976711.html

(CAVEAT, DISCLAIMER etc: It's from the 'lefty' independent, contains no facts and figures, and may well result in 'confirmation bias' )

[Dorcus]

Although it's an urban myth that Mao stated that it was too early to tell what the effects of the French Revolution were, it's very early days to make an objective valuation about Brexit in this unusual short-term.
From a personal perspective, a friend of mine works in a food export business which is now laying off staff due to the bureacracy, difficulties and expense of exporting perishable food to the EU - and that's after they lost a quite a few EU citizens who were members of staff in the warehouse and decamped earlier this year due to Brexit. It seems that the company is either going to relocate in The Netherlands or go out of business. A singular anecdote and meaningless in the great scheme of things perhaps.
I also spend one weekend a month walking the South West Coast Path and staff shortages in pubs, cafés and restaurants are commonplace. It's not totally clear as to how much that problem is down to Covid and/or Brexit respectively but let's wait and see.

However, one does get the impression lots of folk are (preying?) Brexit turns out to be a success for political reasons and are keen to shut down debate at the earliest opportunity.

These (hawks?) seem anxious to get their retaliation in as early as they can. So much for these raptors. Maybe Brexit will be destined to be debated upon till the end of time.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

However, one does get the impression lots of folk are (preying?) Brexit turns out to be a success for political reasons and are keen to shut down debate at the earliest opportunity.

These (hawks?) seem anxious to get their retaliation in as early as they can. So much for these raptors. Maybe Brexit will be destined to be debated upon till the end of time.

No, not 'preying'. You did ask.

[Rjk]

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here's an unexpected bonus

[ninian opinian]

More fantastic news for the farmers the fisherman and the UK https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/br...eveals-1361797

[cyril evans awaydays]

More fantastic news for the farmers the fisherman and the UK https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/br...eveals-1361797

Whatever became of that slogan "No Deal is better than a bad deal" I wonder?