Not many big clubs left outside the top two flights now

[dembethewarrior]

Just adding this to the conversation - I've worked out the average league position of every one of the 92 sides currently in the league. Teams with an average position of 1-20 could claim their home is the Premier League, 21-44 - The Championship, 45-66 - League One, 67-92 - League Two. Note that

Premier League clubs (in average points order):

Liverpool
Arsenal
Everton
Manchester United
Aston Villa
Tottenham Hotspur
Chelsea
Manchester City
Newcastle United
Sunderland
West Bromwich Albion
West Ham United

Championship clubs (in average points order):

Blackburn Rovers
Leeds United
Wolverhampton Wanderers
Derby County
Middlesbrough
Sheffield Wednesday
Leicester City
Sheffield United
Bolton Wanderers
Stoke City
Birmingham City
Nottingham Forest
Southampton
Burnley
Ipswich Town
Preston North End
Portsmouth
Fulham
Huddersfield Town
Charlton Athletic
Blackpool
Coventry City
Norwich City
Queens Park Rangers
Cardiff City
Crystal Palace
Bristol City
Luton Town
Barnsley
Hull City

League One clubs:

Millwall
Watford
Oldham Athletic
Swansea City
Wigan Athletic
Brighton & Hove Albion
Plymouth Argyle
Reading
Bradford City
Oxford United
Brentford
Port Vale
Rotherham United
Leyton Orient
Swindon Town
Milton Keynes Dons
Bristol Rovers
AFC Bournemouth
Lincoln City
Fleetwood Town
Walsall
Doncaster Rovers
Tranmere Rovers
Shrewsbury Town
Peterborough United
Burton Albion
Carlisle United
Gillingham

League Two clubs:

Wycombe Wanderers
Accrington Stanley
Cambridge United
Scunthorpe United
Colchester United
Crewe Alexandra
Northampton Town
Mansfield Town
AFC Wimbledon
Newport County
Crawley Town
Exeter City
Rochdale
Stevenage
Hartlepool United
Barrow
Salford City
Cheltenham Town
Forest Green Rovers
Morecambe
Harrogate Town
Sutton United

Based on that, I'd say Sunderland are the biggest club outside the top two divisions, followed by Ipswich, Charlton, Bolton, Sheffield Wednesday and Portsmouth. In the opposite direction, from within the top two divisions, Watford, Brighton and Brentford are the smallest clubs inside the top flight, while Millwall, Swansea, Bournemouth, Reading and Peterborough are overachieving by being in the Championship.

Those 5 teams do stand out.

[bobh]

I think it's all tied up to a long running saga about a new 'Stadium for Cornwall' to be built in Truro as the club there was making a go of rising up the leagues and had some success with that.

The more controversial element is that Cornish Pirates, who are pretty successful, plan to move from Penzance to Truro to share the ground. Amidst all the drama I guess Truro City fell into difficulty and got bought out by the rugby club and temporarily moved to Plymouth. Not sure why they themselves didn't temporarily relocate to Penzance where the rugby club currently play.

Either way, I don't think people in Cornwall have much of an issue supporting Plymouth Argyle which is on the Cornish border anyway. Rugby is also pretty big there.

My daughter's bf is from St Ives. Truro would be his nearest club; Plymouth/Exeter neaest League clubs, no naturally he supports...

Chelsea!

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Maybe, football and rugby have never been great bed buddies. See Wasps and Coventry as a typical example.

I still don't get how you came to your initial conclusion regarding the Truro scenario.

[blue lewj]

I still don't get how you came to your initial conclusion regarding the Truro scenario.

Maybe it is with the intention of backing them up the leagues, who knows. I'm not that clued up on Truro City or the story behind it. Why do you think a rugby club buys a football club?

I just don't know of many (any) rugby clubs that own football clubs and question why they own this one. Probably for the shared ground route.
Do you know of any others?

Can you name a rugby club that has had any dealing with a football club that doesn't mean some kind of financial gain for them?

I don't know too much on the subject but the rugby club will have bought the club for some future benefit or perceived benefit to the rugby club. I'm almost certain of that.

Maybe it is me being a bit cynical but say Cardiff RFC bought Cardiff City would you not at least question what their intentions were?

[blue lewj]

I've just taken a look at the Stadium for Cornwall that the rugby club has been aiming to build for some time with Truro City being earmarked as tenants.

October 2018 Pete Masters, the Chairman of Truro City, admitted that "there is a shadow hanging over the club putting money into the new Stadium for Cornwall".
Cornish Pirates then buy the club in May 2019.

If you think them buying the football club is purely to do well by the football club then fair enough. I think it is more to give them more clout to get this stadium across the line and it stops Truro City doing their own thing.
I am a cynic when it comes to rugby and football doing business though but also think I'm realistic in that one does not acquire another unless it makes sense and benefits them in doing so.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Maybe it is with the intention of backing them up the leagues, who knows. I'm not that clued up on Truro City or the story behind it. Why do you think a rugby club buys a football club?

I just don't know of many (any) rugby clubs that own football clubs and question why they own this one. Probably for the shared ground route.
Do you know of any others?

Can you name a rugby club that has had any dealing with a football club that doesn't mean some kind of financial gain for them?

I don't know too much on the subject but the rugby club will have bought the club for some future benefit or perceived benefit to the rugby club. I'm almost certain of that.

Maybe it is me being a bit cynical but say Cardiff RFC bought Cardiff City would you not at least question what their intentions were?

I think you drew a negative conclusion without bothering to find out any facts.

[life on mars]

I've just taken a look at the Stadium for Cornwall that the rugby club has been aiming to build for some time with Truro City being earmarked as tenants.

October 2018 Pete Masters, the Chairman of Truro City, admitted that "there is a shadow hanging over the club putting money into the new Stadium for Cornwall".
Cornish Pirates then buy the club in May 2019.

If you think them buying the football club is purely to do well by the football club then fair enough. I think it is more to give them more clout to get this stadium across the line and it stops Truro City doing their own thing.

I am a cynic when it comes to rugby and football doing business though but also think I'm realistic in that one does not acquire another unless it makes sense and benefits them in doing so.

You would think that such a partnership came with a thought out business plan .

[Taunton Blue Genie]

You would think that such a partnership came with a thought out business plan .

It did. Cornwall Council developed the business plan to assist both teams. Still, there's no point spoiling a prejudice with facts.

[JamesWales]

My daughter's bf is from St Ives. Truro would be his nearest club; Plymouth/Exeter neaest League clubs, no naturally he supports...

Chelsea!

From one father to another, I wish your daughter all the best in getting out of this obviously toxic relationship

[bobh]

From one father to another, I wish your daughter all the best in getting out of this obviously toxic relationship

Fat chance, though Cardiff is now his "second team".

My other daughter married a Manu fan!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Fat chance, though Cardiff is now his "second team".

My other daughter married a Manu fan!

From pontypridd?

[bobh]

From pontypridd?

From Blackwood.

[Forest Green Bluebird]

One club that I'm surprised has never been in the the football league is Truro
City in Cornwall massive fan base. Nice city but poor football team.

Large city yes, but it is well out of the way. Difficult to attract anything but local players.

Plymouth, Exeter, Torquay, Yeovil do find it difficult to prosper.

Forest Green is a small 'estate' just outside Nailsworth, but it has grown largely due to the ability to attract playing staff from a much wider and more accessible catchment area.

I cannot think of any successful / big clubs that are a considerable distance away from large populated areas.

Perhaps the likes of Norwich is a counter example.

[Forest Green Bluebird]

Just adding this to the conversation - I've worked out the average league position of every one of the 92 sides currently in the league. Teams with an average position of 1-20 could claim their home is the Premier League, 21-44 - The Championship, 45-66 - League One, 67-92 - League Two. Note that

Premier League clubs (in average points order):

Liverpool
Arsenal
Everton
Manchester United
Aston Villa
Tottenham Hotspur
Chelsea
Manchester City
Newcastle United
Sunderland
West Bromwich Albion
West Ham United

Championship clubs (in average points order):

Blackburn Rovers
Leeds United
Wolverhampton Wanderers
Derby County
Middlesbrough
Sheffield Wednesday
Leicester City
Sheffield United
Bolton Wanderers
Stoke City
Birmingham City
Nottingham Forest
Southampton
Burnley
Ipswich Town
Preston North End
Portsmouth
Fulham
Huddersfield Town
Charlton Athletic
Blackpool
Coventry City
Norwich City
Queens Park Rangers
Cardiff City
Crystal Palace
Bristol City
Luton Town
Barnsley
Hull City

League One clubs:

Millwall
Watford
Oldham Athletic
Swansea City
Wigan Athletic
Brighton & Hove Albion
Plymouth Argyle
Reading
Bradford City
Oxford United
Brentford
Port Vale
Rotherham United
Leyton Orient
Swindon Town
Milton Keynes Dons
Bristol Rovers
AFC Bournemouth
Lincoln City
Fleetwood Town
Walsall
Doncaster Rovers
Tranmere Rovers
Shrewsbury Town
Peterborough United
Burton Albion
Carlisle United
Gillingham

League Two clubs:

Wycombe Wanderers
Accrington Stanley
Cambridge United
Scunthorpe United
Colchester United
Crewe Alexandra
Northampton Town
Mansfield Town
AFC Wimbledon
Newport County
Crawley Town
Exeter City
Rochdale
Stevenage
Hartlepool United
Barrow
Salford City
Cheltenham Town
Forest Green Rovers
Morecambe
Harrogate Town
Sutton United

Based on that, I'd say Sunderland are the biggest club outside the top two divisions, followed by Ipswich, Charlton, Bolton, Sheffield Wednesday and Portsmouth. In the opposite direction, from within the top two divisions, Watford, Brighton and Brentford are the smallest clubs inside the top flight, while Millwall, Swansea, Bournemouth, Reading and Peterborough are overachieving by being in the Championship.

Is your analysis based on league position since the start of the Premier League?

If so I would argue that Swansea Town would be above us in the ranking.

[J R Hartley]

Slight twist on this are teams like Burnley or Wrexham. Both fairly small towns but with long-standing football history/heritage, with a long view both over performing given their size in an area of the world with many league clubs and some of the most illustrious in the UK.

Both towns known for their interbreeding

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Both towns known for their interbreeding

Wrexham

Taking it to the football lads alliance

Always there when it matters

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Is your analysis based on league position since the start of the Premier League?

If so I would argue that Swansea Town would be above us in the ranking.

No, it's based on league positions since each team joined the league.

If you're interested in rankings based solely on positions since the start of the Premier League, ours is 43rd, Swansea's is 45th.

[blue lewj]

It did. Cornwall Council developed the business plan to assist both teams. Still, there's no point spoiling a prejudice with facts.

Prejudice?

I couldn't give two hoots about Truro City or Cornish Pirates.

I like both sports and questioned the motives of the rugby club. That is it. Nothing less, nothing more.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Prejudice?

I couldn't give two hoots about Truro City or Cornish Pirates.

I like both sports and questioned the motives of the rugby club. That is it. Nothing less, nothing more.

Nah. There was no question involved. Still, I think it best to move on.

[blue lewj]

Nah. There was no question involved. Still, I think it best to move on.

I'd say so. You've made far more of it for a throw away comment than was necessary already.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I'd say so. You've made far more of it for a throw away comment than was necessary already.

I'm laughing regarding what you consider necessary but I wish you good karma on this fine day, old fruit.

[blue lewj]

I'm laughing regarding what you consider necessary but I wish you good karma on this fine day, old fruit.

Same to you TBG

[Forest Green Bluebird]

No, it's based on league positions since each team joined the league.

If you're interested in rankings based solely on positions since the start of the Premier League, ours is 43rd, Swansea's is 45th.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Those vermin based on time spent in the top flight have a far more Successful recent history than us