HGV Driver Shortages

[the other bob wilson]

Nope. Thousands of EU HGV workers have the right to work here anyway, so if they aren't its clearly not going to change. There is also a substantial driver shortage in Europe - what makes us think they will come here?

The British economy is realigning following Brexit. There will be good changes and bad but some disruption is inevitable.

The answer ultimately is to raise wages for British workers. Opening up our economy to an almost endless supply of workers, most of whom have far lower wages expectations than us has relatively damaged working class wages. It hasn't done so at the top, who benefit from it incidentally (probably why very generally speaking, wealthier people generally voted remain, whilst poorer people generally voted leave)

We are hopefully coming to the end of a pandemic and are in the midst of a realigning economy. We need to hold our nerve and get through it.

Practical steps I would suggest: More use of smaller delivery vans where possible, fast-track HGV driver training, campaigns to get retirees back for 1-2 years, have army on standby.

For me it's critical we stand with the workers on this one.

But I thought we were going to have our cake and eat it along with the ready made deal we had?

[The Lone Gunman]

They voted out because successive governments and the Neo Lib EU systemically contributed towards their pay and conditions dropping.

Is this a fact? Or a guess?

[Tuerto]

Is this a fact? Or a guess?

It's a semi educated opinion. Some would have voted out because they're racist, jingoistic etc, that's the case across the board, I would have thought. Although most, in my opinion, didn't vote leave because they simply disliked foreigners. To me, it was a final act of desperation for many people who must feel that whatever system is put in place or whatever club we join, it simply doesn't affect them in a positive way. The establishment got what it deserved in my opinion. Sad thing is, the poorest are in the hands of Boris. If that doesn't show an extreme level of desperation, then nothing does.

[Feedback]

When you’re in charge of a massive vehicle with huge hazards and long hours in a job you do need to concentrate on I don’t think the finger should be pointed as ‘hoops’

Look at the difference to train and tube drivers and they haven’t got other idiotic road users to deal with

They need plenty of training but it should be free

I think the hoops were about working visas, not HGV skills testing.

[Feedback]

No you didn't. Any economic changes take a long time to come through.

yet here we are seeing economic disruption and impact almost immediately.

[Feedback]

something which seems to have escaped under everyone radar is the IR35 off payroll which came into effect In April this year by this hopeless government

Many HGV drivers left when this was introduced not just confined to HGV drivers but many other sectors too

a cross functional think tank told the government and warned them what would happen and lo and behold its playing out in front of our eyes . a shortage of key staff all over the UK .HGV drivers being a perfect example where the new IR35 legislation is no good which offers no flexibility especially if your working away from home .HGV drivers lost thousands of pounds when this was introduced

IR35 was brought in by Gordon Brown in 2001. Its only recently that HMRC, under orders from the Treasury, have been given the powers to ensure it is enforced.

[Feedback]

It's a semi educated opinion. Some would have voted out because they're racist, jingoistic etc, that's the case across the board, I would have thought. Although most, in my opinion, didn't vote leave because they simply disliked foreigners. To me, it was a final act of desperation for many people who must feel that whatever system is put in place or whatever club we join, it simply doesn't affect them in a positive way. The establishment got what it deserved in my opinion. Sad thing is, the poorest are in the hands of Boris. If that doesn't show an extreme level of desperation, then nothing does.

what I take from this is you're happy when wealth distribution means you benefit from wealth trickling down to you, but you don't like it when those worse off seek work here which results in wealth trickling down from you.

[The Hooded Claw]

The British economy is realigning following Brexit. There will be good changes and bad but some disruption is inevitable

Care to provide an example of those “good changes”?

[the other bob wilson]

what I take from this is you're happy when wealth distribution means you benefit from wealth trickling down to you, but you don't like it when those worse off seek work here which results in wealth trickling down from you.

Do you still believe that trickle down economics works then?

[Feedback]

Do you still believe that trickle economics works then?

it was used a way of stating the direction of wealth distribution. nothing more than that.

[Des Parrot]

I love to know what working class means. It seems people adapt it for their own purposes. My mum worked in Woolworths my dad cut down trees. I’ve worked in Manufacturing every day since September 1975. I consider myself working class, I’ve worked for every penny I’ve earned. Who decides the criteria?

[Monster munch]

Well whatever the cause for HGV drivers shortage its now bloody mental out there with people losing their shit again and queing at the garages. I just don't understand the need to panic panic panic.

Oh well, I'm going up the pub after work, can't bloody wait!!

[JamesWales]

Care to provide an example of those “good changes”?

In the coming years, I would anticipate:
Rising wages
Greater housing affordability
Greater infiltration and engagement with faster growing global economies
GDP to rise slightly faster than typical in the previous years
Lower unemployment than in the last 10-20 years
Greater emphasis on manufacturing
A more dynamic R&D sector
Greater investment in public services.
A more interventionist form of economic management
A more dynamic, agile and faster moving govt
Greater investments in workplace training, apprenticeships etc

Ultimately we have left a club that contains Germany, France, Spain, Italy et al and joined one that contains South Korea, Japan, USA, Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland et al.

In or out of the EU will make far less positive or negative impact than people think, as the foundations of a strong economy are rooted in other issues, but on balance I think Britain will do better and I do think society and the economy will be fairer and more balanced.

[Tuerto]

what I take from this is you're happy when wealth distribution means you benefit from wealth trickling down to you, but you don't like it when those worse off seek work here which results in wealth trickling down from you.

I don't know how you have come to that conclusion, I was simply giving my opinion on why some people in the poorest areas voted to leave. I think that you're trying to be too clever. Incidentally, wealth has never dripped down to me.

[Wash DC Blue]

In the coming years, I would anticipate:
Rising wages
Greater housing affordability
Greater infiltration and engagement with faster growing global economies
GDP to rise slightly faster than typical in the previous years
Lower unemployment than in the last 10-20 years
Greater emphasis on manufacturing
A more dynamic R&D sector
Greater investment in public services.
A more interventionist form of economic management
A more dynamic, agile and faster moving govt
Greater investments in workplace training, apprenticeships etc

Ultimately we have left a club that contains Germany, France, Spain, Italy et al and joined one that contains South Korea, Japan, USA, Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland et al.

In or out of the EU will make far less positive or negative impact than people think, as the foundations of a strong economy are rooted in other issues, but on balance I think Britain will do better and I do think society and the economy will be fairer and more balanced.

Gammon!!

[the other bob wilson]

it was used a way of stating the direction of wealth distribution. nothing more than that.

I wasn’t having a go, just interested in knowing.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I love to know what working class means. It seems people adapt it for their own purposes. My mum worked in Woolworths my dad cut down trees. I’ve worked in Manufacturing every day since September 1975. I consider myself working class, I’ve worked for every penny I’ve earned. Who decides the criteria?

I think it is an outdated and ill-defined concept and has been for quite some time. In fact, I think that's why the Labour party has a bit of a difficulty in targeting a voter base thesedays

[IanD]

This makes an interesting read re driver shortages. UK faces a perfect storm of contributory factors which cannot be solved in the short to medium term.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/57810729

[az city]

In the coming years, I would anticipate:
Rising wages
Greater housing affordability
Greater infiltration and engagement with faster growing global economies
GDP to rise slightly faster than typical in the previous years
Lower unemployment than in the last 10-20 years
Greater emphasis on manufacturing
A more dynamic R&D sector
Greater investment in public services.
A more interventionist form of economic management
A more dynamic, agile and faster moving govt
Greater investments in workplace training, apprenticeships etc

Ultimately we have left a club that contains Germany, France, Spain, Italy et al and joined one that contains South Korea, Japan, USA, Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland et al.

In or out of the EU will make far less positive or negative impact than people think, as the foundations of a strong economy are rooted in other issues, but on balance I think Britain will do better and I do think society and the economy will be fairer and more balanced.

Laughable. Most, if not all of that, is complete tripe.

It's complete conjecture from you. What expertise are you drawing upon to spout such utter rubbish?

[JamesWales]

Laughable. Most, if not all of that, is complete tripe.

It's complete conjecture from you. What expertise are you drawing upon to spout such utter rubbish?

They are predictions about the future, completely unprovable either way, until say 2024, 2025. but that is what I think will happen based on my knowledge of current affairs and economics.

What evidence do you have that advanced western nations such as the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, Japan etc do worse economically than Italy, Germany, Belgium, Spain, Sweden, France etc? The evidence doesn't exist.

[The Bloop]

Laughable. Most, if not all of that, is complete tripe.

It's complete conjecture from you. What expertise are you drawing upon to spout such utter rubbish?

It sounds like it's been lifted from a speech made at a young conservatives branch meeting.

[JamesWales]

It sounds like it's been lifted from a speech made at a young conservatives branch meeting.

Challenge specific bits then. The EU generally has higher unemployment and lower growth than comparable countries outside, so while the laissez faire single market model does have some benefits, it clearly has costs too.

Explain why you think I am wrong - cite the advanced nations outside the EU that are struggling so. Which are they? Norway? Australia? Canada? South Korea? Where? Where are these economic disaster nations?

Where is your evidence that prolonged membership of the EU for advanced western nations (as we are) is better long term than those outside? I'm afraid the evidence doesnt really exist.

[az city]

They are predictions about the future, completely unprovable either way, until say 2024, 2025. but that is what I think will happen based on my knowledge of current affairs and economics.

What evidence do you have that advanced western nations such as the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, Japan etc do worse economically than Italy, Germany, Belgium, Spain, Sweden, France etc? The evidence doesn't exist.

So, to summarize:

1. it's complete conjecture on your part;
2. you have absolutely zero expertise in the area.

Utter BS from you.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Ultimately we have left a club that contains Germany, France, Spain, Italy et al and joined one that contains South Korea, Japan, USA, Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland et al.

What club do they all belong to? I wasn't aware that those countries have formed an alliance similar to the EU.

[az city]

Challenge specific bits then. The EU generally has higher unemployment and lower growth than comparable countries outside, so while the laissez faire single market model does have some benefits, it clearly has costs too.

Explain why you think I am wrong - cite the advanced nations outside the EU that are struggling so. Which are they? Norway? Australia? Canada? South Korea? Where? Where are these economic disaster nations?

Where is your evidence that prolonged membership of the EU for advanced western nations (as we are) is better long term than those outside? I'm afraid the evidence doesnt really exist.

What are you asking for? Your statements/conjectures are so vague that it's difficult to tell.