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Thread: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

  1. #61

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    What annoys me TLG is that you label me ignorant when it's basically your personal experience vs. mine. I would never call you (or anyone else) ignorant for expressing their experiences as they see it.

    Here is at least one article that does back up my experience by the way.

    https://inews.co.uk/news/uk-cities-m...easing-1239719

    It's dated from last week, it uses data compiled by Google and it actually cites Cardiff specifically stating:

    "Cardiff had the greatest drop in people in the workplace, with a 47 per cent fall. Edinburgh came second with a 44 per cent cut, followed by London, at 40 per cent."

    And, in respect of why this may be:

    "Ben Bolton, director of Cooke & Arkwright, the largest firm of independent commercial property advisers in Wales, was not surprised that Cardiff had suffered the highest decline.

    He said the city had a high proportion of public-sector workers, who were more likely to work from home due to budget constraints making it more difficult for the workplace to be made Covid-secure."

  2. #62

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    What annoys me TLG.....
    I'll be honest, I couldn't care less what annoys you.

    Have a good evening. I'm off to a gig, Covid passport in hand. I don't need it for the office, though.


  3. #63

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    Thats interesting. My experience is the exact opposite. Everyone I know in public sector offices is generally at home. Private sector, the opposite.

    It would certainly be interesting to see the data
    I went in on Monday to return my IT equipment and I was surprised to see a very tiny proportion of the staff in the office (and there are about 900 on the books). We were blessed with portable laptops and we were used to hot desking before Covid hit, which helped.

  4. #64

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    I don't have a firm opinion either way as the evidence is unclear.

    One thing I will say, though - at the behest of the Tory government, the work of the entire civil service has become increasingly digitalised in recent years and a far greater percentage of civil servants are now working at home either mostly or entirely. There was a very clear drive towards this situation long before Covid-19 reared its ugly head, and in some respects the pandemic has actually slowed the move towards remote working for various departments, including the one I work for.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    I'll be honest, I couldn't care less what annoys you.

    Have a good evening. I'm off to a gig, Covid passport in hand. I don't need it for the office, though.

    No, you don't seem the kind of person who would care.

    Have a nice evening

  5. #65

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    I think this is a cracker!

    At the end of the day there are only two groups of people who constantly worry about the increasing number of people working from home.

    1) Supervisors and Middle Managers whose only purpose in life is to regard themselves as superior to the Hoi polloi. They make limited money out of it but more than the people who accomplish real work. They are the unquestioning slaves of the money men who drive their performance. Their object in life is to accede and command and WFH has seriously eroded their significance. They feel emasculated and have to find other methods to snoop remotely; not easy.

    2) Old Fashioned business owners who believe in old fashioned concepts of work effort and time constraints rather than having the nous to evaluate data.

    Fortunately both groups are likely to wither in time.

  6. #66

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    I don't have a firm opinion either way as the evidence is unclear.

    One thing I will say, though - at the behest of the Tory government, the work of the entire civil service has become increasingly digitalised in recent years and a far greater percentage of civil servants are now working at home either mostly or entirely. There was a very clear drive towards this situation long before Covid-19 reared its ugly head, and in some respects the pandemic has actually slowed the move towards remote working for various departments, including the one I work for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    I think this is a cracker!

    At the end of the day there are only two groups of people who constantly worry about the increasing number of people working from home.

    1) Supervisors and Middle Managers whose only purpose in life is to regard themselves as superior to the Hoi polloi. They make limited money out of it but more than the people who accomplish real work. They are the unquestioning slaves of the money men who drive their performance. Their object in life is to accede and command and WFH has seriously eroded their significance. They feel emasculated and have to find other methods to snoop remotely; not easy.

    2) Old Fashioned business owners who believe in old fashioned concepts of work effort and time constraints rather than having the nous to evaluate data.

    Fortunately both groups are likely to wither in time.
    Completely disagree. There are potentially very serious long term consequences of permanent home working, the loss of sharing of information, mental wellbeing impacts, new staff training, business cultures, isolation, the impact on younger staff, the impact on poorer staff, establishing contacts with new clients, ensuring work is understood properly etc. It definitely has the potential to lead to greater isolation and impacts on some much worse than others, and it's typically those who are younger or with less happy home lives

    Not to mention the impact on business, sustainable transport and the like.

    I know people who have been to a very very dark place through WFH so I have to speak up when you try to charactise it as something simple or wholly positive which it absolutely isn't. It's a very complex topic

  7. #67

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    There are potentially very serious long term consequences of permanent home working.....
    I agree (to a degree), but perhaps you should attempt to express your concerns to the Tory twats you vote for. In my experience, they are extremely keen on digitalization, remote-working, downscaling, cost-cutting, etc. Give it another five years under this shower of shit and I reckon you'll be lucky to speak directly to a civil servant anywhere about anything. Ever.

  8. #68

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    I don't have a firm opinion either way as the evidence is unclear.

    One thing I will say, though - at the behest of the Tory government, the work of the entire civil service has become increasingly digitalised in recent years and a far greater percentage of civil servants are now working at home either mostly or entirely. There was a very clear drive towards this situation long before Covid-19 reared its ugly head, and in some respects the pandemic has actually slowed the move towards remote working for various departments, including the one I work for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    I think this is a cracker!

    At the end of the day there are only two groups of people who constantly worry about the increasing number of people working from home.

    1) Supervisors and Middle Managers whose only purpose in life is to regard themselves as superior to the Hoi polloi. They make limited money out of it but more than the people who accomplish real work. They are the unquestioning slaves of the money men who drive their performance. Their object in life is to accede and command and WFH has seriously eroded their significance. They feel emasculated and have to find other methods to snoop remotely; not easy.

    2) Old Fashioned business owners who believe in old fashioned concepts of work effort and time constraints rather than having the nous to evaluate data.

    Fortunately both groups are likely to wither in time.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    I agree (to a degree), but perhaps you should attempt to express your concerns to the Tory twats you vote for. In my experience, they are extremely keen on digitalization, remote-working, downscaling, cost-cutting, etc. Give it another five years under this shower of shit and I reckon you'll be lucky to speak directly to a civil servant anywhere about anything. Ever.
    Yes, I don't agree with 'digital first' strategies in many cases as we are losing a lot of contact and communication, empathy, and the finer grain understanding of issues. It's not helpful for a cohesive society.

    I don't see any difference from Labour or other parties however (if I did I would applaud it) and as stated earlier, if anything they seem keener on it all. I would like more organisations to stand up for and recognise the value of human interaction. The loss of it can be devastating.

    Anyway, hope you enjoyed your gig.

  9. #69

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    I don't see any difference from Labour or other parties however......
    Perhaps if you worked in the public sector, you would.

    I've worked in the same department for almost 30 years. The reductions in resources and staff numbers that have occurred within the last four or five years have dwarfed anything that has gone before. Many of our long-standing customers can't understand why our services have deteriorated so rapidly in recent times. Many think we're joking when we tell them about our staffing levels.

    Brexit has resulted in an approximate 40% increase in the workload of the team that I'm currently overseeing. Nevertheless, during the pandemic our staffing levels have been slashed by 60%. I work in transport. Like the DVLA, we have large backlogs of work, and that's despite 100% of our staff being onsite for almost all of this year (despite the fact that a large percentage would have been equally productive if they'd been at home). This is life in the civil service under the Tories.

  10. #70

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Part of the trade off for the Patent Office allowing me to become a working from home “Guinea Pig” back in 2000 was that my annual target of cases was increased by, I seem to remember, fifteen per cent - there were better, more efficient, Trade Mark Examiners working there than me, but I was able to achieve that target for nine years before I took up an offer of early retirement.

    In those pre Covid days, I’d say home working was not for everyone, but it was fine for me because I went into work for one and a half days a week and would not have liked the idea of permanent home working, so I can understand the desire to cut back on it somewhat to a small degree.

    However, as so often these days with the what’s in it for me party in power, money seems to be behind efforts to reduce home working - it certainly was this time last year when pressure from places like sandwich bars and other food outlets prompted a short lived change of policy where civil servants especially were told they had to reduce home working and this, along with Sunak’s barmy “eat out to help out” scheme played a part in creating the autumn second wave which eventually led to another lockdown.

    The OP’s motives for starting this thread became clear from the first sentence of his first message , while James Wales, who tries to come over as all reasonable and even handed and yet, without fail in my experience, comes down on the what’s in it for me party side of the argument. Frankly, the arguments against home working in this thread would have been more convincing if they had come from people with less of an agenda than the OP and James Wales.

  11. #71

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Perhaps if you worked in the public sector, you would.

    I've worked in the same department for almost 30 years. The reductions in resources and staff numbers that have occurred within the last four or five years have dwarfed anything that has gone before. Many of our long-standing customers can't understand why our services have deteriorated so rapidly in recent times. Many think we're joking when we tell them about our staffing levels.

    Brexit has resulted in an approximate 40% increase in the workload of the team that I'm currently overseeing. Nevertheless, during the pandemic our staffing levels have been slashed by 60%. I work in transport. Like the DVLA, we have large backlogs of work, and that's despite 100% of our staff being onsite for almost all of this year (despite the fact that a large percentage would have been equally productive if they'd been at home). This is life in the civil service under the Tories.
    I do work in the public sector and have done for many years

  12. #72

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Part of the trade off for the Patent Office allowing me to become a working from home “Guinea Pig” back in 2000 was that my annual target of cases was increased by, I seem to remember, fifteen per cent - there were better, more efficient, Trade Mark Examiners working there than me, but I was able to achieve that target for nine years before I took up an offer of early retirement.

    In those pre Covid days, I’d say home working was not for everyone, but it was fine for me because I went into work for one and a half days a week and would not have liked the idea of permanent home working, so I can understand the desire to cut back on it somewhat to a small degree.

    However, as so often these days with the what’s in it for me party in power, money seems to be behind efforts to reduce home working - it certainly was this time last year when pressure from places like sandwich bars and other food outlets prompted a short lived change of policy where civil servants especially were told they had to reduce home working and this, along with Sunak’s barmy “eat out to help out” scheme played a part in creating the autumn second wave which eventually led to another lockdown.

    The OP’s motives for starting this thread became clear from the first sentence of his first message , while James Wales, who tries to come over as all reasonable and even handed and yet, without fail in my experience, comes down on the what’s in it for me party side of the argument. Frankly, the arguments against home working in this thread would have been more convincing if they had come from people with less of an agenda than the OP and James Wales.
    That's an extremely unfair thing to say, and you saying the "what's in it for me party" does somewhat undermine your position to be even handed on it. I've not mentioned party politics whatsoever other than to say that I don't see other parties as being any better and perhaps worse on WFH issues from my perspective. (And I only mentioned that cos TLG decided the conversation couldn't continue without some sectarian element coming in..."I hear what your saying but are you saying it with the right colour rosette on!?"

    WFH disproportionately impacts upon those with difficult home lives. There has been some very dark moments in the last 18 months and I can think of at least a dozen people who have felt really very low as a result. If it suits you, fine, but you're lucky. Howerver, when you isolate people you can isolate their problems too.

    It's a serious topic. We spend 40 hours a week surrounded by other humans and then suddenly sat on your own for the rest of your career? The changes are stark and I don't think you help by politicising it tbh

  13. #73

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Driving examiners striking next week I believe.

    With the bufoon and co waffling on about a high pay economy but with many public service workers having their pay frozen , rising fuel prices , rising cost of living , you wonder who will be next to strike.

    Still Jeremy Corbyn , Diane Abbot , Captain Hindsight etc etc etc.

  14. #74

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Perhaps if you worked in the public sector, you would.

    I've worked in the same department for almost 30 years. The reductions in resources and staff numbers that have occurred within the last four or five years have dwarfed anything that has gone before. Many of our long-standing customers can't understand why our services have deteriorated so rapidly in recent times. Many think we're joking when we tell them about our staffing levels.

    Brexit has resulted in an approximate 40% increase in the workload of the team that I'm currently overseeing. Nevertheless, during the pandemic our staffing levels have been slashed by 60%. I work in transport. Like the DVLA, we have large backlogs of work, and that's despite 100% of our staff being onsite for almost all of this year (despite the fact that a large percentage would have been equally productive if they'd been at home). This is life in the civil service under the Tories.
    It's death by a thousand cuts (pun intended), one of the teams where I work has reached the death bit after years of enforced cuts and workload increases, 95% of the team left within 2 months. Anybody they recruit now will leave once they see what is going on.

  15. #75

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    That's an extremely unfair thing to say, and you saying the "what's in it for me party" does somewhat undermine your position to be even handed on it. I've not mentioned party politics whatsoever other than to say that I don't see other parties as being any better and perhaps worse on WFH issues from my perspective. (And I only mentioned that cos TLG decided the conversation couldn't continue without some sectarian element coming in..."I hear what your saying but are you saying it with the right colour rosette on!?"

    WFH disproportionately impacts upon those with difficult home lives. There has been some very dark moments in the last 18 months and I can think of at least a dozen people who have felt really very low as a result. If it suits you, fine, but you're lucky. Howerver, when you isolate people you can isolate their problems too.

    It's a serious topic. We spend 40 hours a week surrounded by other humans and then suddenly sat on your own for the rest of your career? The changes are stark and I don't think you help by politicising it tbh
    No, although I haven’t been entirely critical of this Government, I freely admit I’m not even handed in my judgement of them. You’re not even handed though either because, despite attempting to make out that you are, you always end up arriving at the same conclusion and come down on the side of the UK Government.

    When I read the OP, I thought of two or three posters who could well reply broadly agreeing with it, you were one of them and here you are. Why did I do that I wonder?

  16. #76

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    Completely disagree. There are potentially very serious long term consequences of permanent home working, the loss of sharing of information, mental wellbeing impacts, new staff training, business cultures, isolation, the impact on younger staff, the impact on poorer staff, establishing contacts with new clients, ensuring work is understood properly etc. It definitely has the potential to lead to greater isolation and impacts on some much worse than others, and it's typically those who are younger or with less happy home lives

    Not to mention the impact on business, sustainable transport and the like.

    I know people who have been to a very very dark place through WFH so I have to speak up when you try to charactise it as something simple or wholly positive which it absolutely isn't. It's a very complex topic
    On the other side of the coin is that I have a friend who has been forced to go back into the office twice a week for no logical reason other than her boss liking having her staff around her. The two lengthy commutes a week cost her over £100 a month. She doesn't like driving but it's the only way she can get to work. Two weeks ago someone brought Covid into the office and half of the staff couldn't work last week as they were isolating.

    She is a quiet, private person who quite often doesn't like mixing others but enjoys her own space. Breaks and lunchtimes working from home are great for her to do things that interest her without having to play office niceties. Being back in the office has affected her mental health, a point her boss has little regard for. As a result her relationship with her boss has plummeted and she's looking for another job, which has not been easy on her wage, meaning more stress and deterioration of her mental health.

  17. #77

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    No, although I haven’t been entirely critical of this Government, I freely admit I’m not even handed in my judgement of them. You’re not even handed though either because, despite attempting to make out that you are, you always end up coming to t(e same conclusion and come down on the side of the UK Government.

    When I read the OP, I thought of two or three posters who could well reply broadly agreeing with it and you were one of them. Why did I do that I wonder?
    This thread is almost nothing to do with the government. I certainly didn't bring it up, and I certainly am critical of them when needs be. It only got brought up when the debate takes it's usual downward trajectory when the political insults start flowing.

    I've voted for Labour far more times than I have Tory. I've voted to the left of Labour too. On this, my interest was initially a personal experience from the DVLA (and I hope the dispute is sorted soon) and my personal experience on WFH, which when called 'ignorant' I managed to back up with some data.

    I'm more than happy to criticise the UK government or the Welsh government and orthodox left or right wing positions - in fact, it's critical we all do, but I'm not interest in partisan political battles, personal insults or mistruths.

    And if you want a grown up message board you should be able to accept different opinions without resorting to insults IMO.

  18. #78

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    On the other side of the coin is that I have a friend who has been forced to go back into the office twice a week for no logical reason other than her boss liking having her staff around her. The two lengthy commutes a week cost her over £100 a month. She doesn't like driving but it's the only way she can get to work. Two weeks ago someone brought Covid into the office and half of the staff couldn't work last week as they were isolating.

    She is a quiet, private person who quite often doesn't like mixing others but enjoys her own space. Breaks and lunchtimes working from home are great for her to do things that interest her without having to play office niceties. Being back in the office has affected her mental health, a point her boss has little regard for. As a result her relationship with her boss has plummeted and she's looking for another job, which has not been easy on her wage, meaning more stress and deterioration of her mental health.
    Yes, I totally recognise there are two sides to it. I don't think anyone should be forced either way. That said, I do think there are serious, and sometimes hidden, long term impacts of people working alone. If your friend can prove she can work okay at home she should be allowed to do so, perhaps with catch up visits every fortnight or so.

    It's a really nuanced and difficult issue, which is kinda the point I want to make, and given 'the norm' at the moment is WFH, I am more inclined to present the dangers of that. You are right though, long commutes and covid-anxiety are certainly arguments against it.

  19. #79

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    This thread is almost nothing to do with the government. I certainly didn't bring it up, and I certainly am critical of them when needs be. It only got brought up when the debate takes it's usual downward trajectory when the political insults start flowing.

    I've voted for Labour far more times than I have Tory. I've voted to the left of Labour too. On this, my interest was initially a personal experience from the DVLA (and I hope the dispute is sorted soon) and my personal experience on WFH, which when called 'ignorant' I managed to back up with some data.

    I'm more than happy to criticise the UK government or the Welsh government and orthodox left or right wing positions - in fact, it's critical we all do, but I'm not interest in partisan political battles, personal insults or mistruths.

    And if you want a grown up message board you should be able to accept different opinions without resorting to insults IMO.
    Of course its to do with the government.

    The DVLA are going out on strike over a dispute with them at a time of backlogs and a desperate need for HGV drivers.

  20. #80

    Re: DVLA Adding To HGV Shortages

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    Of course its to do with the government.

    The DVLA are going out on strike over a dispute with them at a time of backlogs and a desperate need for HGV drivers.
    It's primarily to do with management, safety in reference to Covid and is specific to the DVLA in Swansea. Widening into some wider political battle is what some may want, but it's not really true. The DVLA may well be a govt department, but that doesn't mean every issue flows from the top. Just as every NHS dispute isn't necessarily government related.

    Either way, lets hope it is resolved soon to the benefit of all involved.

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