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Thread: Tory MP Stabbed

  1. #41

    Re: Tory MP Stabbed

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Not engaging in Debate would be disrespectful to the memory of this poor MP. Murdered by someone who had no intention in participating in discussion or listening to different view points. Keeping quiet would be a tragedy in my opinion.
    I see what you mean and perhaps I phrased it badly but I think we should all try to keep away from petty political point scoring in our debates.

  2. #42

    Re: Tory MP Stabbed

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Not engaging in Debate would be disrespectful to the memory of this poor MP. Murdered by someone who had no intention in participating in discussion or listening to different view points. Keeping quiet would be a tragedy in my opinion.
    Civil debate and acknowledging that we have different views are a thing of the past sadly.

    You just have to look at the pile ons here or any other forum to see how venomous things have become.

  3. #43

    Re: Tory MP Stabbed

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    I see what you mean and perhaps I phrased it badly but I think we should all try to keep away from petty political point scoring in our debates.
    Its a sad moment once again innocent life taken no matter his or her politics one deserves respect.

  4. #44

    Re: Tory MP Stabbed

    Quote Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue View Post
    Civil debate and acknowledging that we have different views are a thing of the past sadly.

    You just have to look at the pile ons here or any other forum to see how venomous things have become.
    So true sadly

  5. #45

    Re: Tory MP Stabbed

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    I see what you mean and perhaps I phrased it badly but I think we should all try to keep away from petty political point scoring in our debates.

  6. #46

    Re: Tory MP Stabbed

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    I can remember him winning Basildon I think it was in 1983, it was one of the first results to come through and confirmed the Tories were on their way to as big a victory as the polls were predicting. So, he was an MP, and a backbencher, for nearly forty years and, based on stuff I’d heard about him before today’s tragedy, he was popular with not just members of his own party. Whether the murder was politically motivated or down to an unhinged constituent, the action which should have been taken after Jo Cox’s murder really has to be now.
    I remember that he had that big beaming smile which probably annoyed a few 🤭 .

    Awful for the family he dedicated his life to his political beliefs which was ended in a dreadful way , no one deserves this , no matter their believes.

    Life can be shit.

  7. #47

    Re: Tory MP Stabbed

    Quote Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue View Post
    Civil debate and acknowledging that we have different views are a thing of the past sadly.

    You just have to look at the pile ons here or any other forum to see how venomous things have become.
    It’s obviously a shocking event and yes things seem to have become a bit more extreme in recent years, and the vital skill of disagreeing but getting by is sparse. But your username suggests you are in the US, and as far as I can tell you guys are in the middle of a slow burning civil war. God knows what the results of the next election will cause.

    It’s not that bad here yet. Covid hasn’t helped as it’s eroded the social structure of the country, but I’ve been heartened in recent weeks by the generally civil manner in which we’ve generally navigated things like extinction rebellion etc. From the outside looking in, the US looks like a powder keg waiting to blow, in particular due to the way that vaccination has become politicised (despite the Donald himself having the jab). We have serious issues to deal with and hopefully some of the issues around fair pay will come in to sharp focus now, but I think we are a long way off the death of civil debate here.

  8. #48

    Re: Tory MP Stabbed

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick View Post
    It’s obviously a shocking event and yes things seem to have become a bit more extreme in recent years, and the vital skill of disagreeing but getting by is sparse. But your username suggests you are in the US, and as far as I can tell you guys are in the middle of a slow burning civil war. God knows what the results of the next election will cause.

    It’s not that bad here yet. Covid hasn’t helped as it’s eroded the social structure of the country, but I’ve been heartened in recent weeks by the generally civil manner in which we’ve generally navigated things like extinction rebellion etc. From the outside looking in, the US looks like a powder keg waiting to blow, in particular due to the way that vaccination has become politicised (despite the Donald himself having the jab). We have serious issues to deal with and hopefully some of the issues around fair pay will come in to sharp focus now, but I think we are a long way off the death of civil debate here.
    It is bonkers over here Mate.
    The politicization of The vaccine and Mask Wearing just baffles me.

    I do think though, that the whole Western World is emersed in the same Cultural Civil War.
    It's no longer just a traditional Left v Right situation....you can throw the Intersectionality powder keg into the mix as well.

    The language used towards others on this board alone (Myself very much included) is terrible.
    Accusations of bigotry and facism are thrown about frivolously on Social Media.

    Maybe the answer is to have to register with ID to use Social Media.

  9. #49

    Re: Tory MP Stabbed

    Quote Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue View Post
    It is bonkers over here Mate.
    The politicization of The vaccine and Mask Wearing just baffles me.

    I do think though, that the whole Western World is emersed in the same Cultural Civil War.
    It's no longer just a traditional Left v Right situation....you can throw the Intersectionality powder keg into the mix as well.

    The language used towards others on this board alone (Myself very much included) is terrible.
    Accusations of bigotry and facism are thrown about frivolously on Social Media.

    Maybe the answer is to have to register with ID to use Social Media.
    Think you’re right about ‘culture wars’ and the West.

    Some countries are suffering more than others not surprisingly these countries have prominent politicians who use the ‘culture wars’ to maintain power and their own position, the states had Trump whilst we’ve got Boris Johnson. Probably the two most toxic countries where these processes have been sown and where they’ll now reap the awards.

  10. #50

    Re: Tory MP Stabbed

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    He won in 1983 as well Bob
    Yes, I knew he'd been an MP for almost forty years, but Pearcey was right. My mistake was that I thought he gained the seat for the Conservatives in the election I talked about, hence why I said 1983, but he was a sitting MP who was expected to lose and it was his holding on to the seat which gave the first real clue that the Conservatives would keep their overall majority in 1992.

    i'm not talking about you here Elwood, but, speaking as someone who does tend to bang on about party politics on here too much, I don't think the response in this thread has been bad at all, the only disagreement I've seen was very minor and related to whether David Amess was a left wing tory or not - of course, that may change in the coming days as more details as to the motives of the murderer emerge.

  11. #51

    Re: Tory MP Stabbed

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Yes, I knew he'd been an MP for almost forty years, but Pearcey was right. My mistake was that I thought he gained the seat for the Conservatives in the election I talked about, hence why I said 1983, but he was a sitting MP who was expected to lose and it was his holding on to the seat which gave the first real clue that the Conservatives would keep their overall majority in 1992.

    i'm not talking about you here Elwood, but, speaking as someone who does tend to bang on about party politics on here too much, I don't think the response in this thread has been bad at all, the only disagreement I've seen was very minor and related to whether David Amess was a left wing tory or not - of course, that may change in the coming days as more details as to the motives of the murderer emerge.
    No the response in this thread has been very respectful Bob. But as we both know (because I think we have both been guilty at times though there are far worse culprits on here) it is all too easy to get too wound up about our views rather than disagree more courteously, which from what I have gathered about Sir David now, and from what I have read in the the past, is the way he did politics.

    I know politicians of all parties are respectfuland complimentary when one of their colleagues dies, but the reaction to his death has been exceptional for the upset and respect on all sides.

  12. #52

    Re: Tory MP Stabbed

    Quote Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue View Post
    You just have to look at the pile ons here or any other forum to see how venomous things have become.
    I have to say I don't use this forum much at all any more for this reason. On the odd occasion I do check a few threads they seem to have descended pretty rapidly into name calling and vitriol. I'm not suggesting the other forum is any better but they do tend to focus a bit more on the football so that's where I tend to go for info and opinion.

  13. #53

    Re: Tory MP Stabbed

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
    No the response in this thread has been very respectful Bob. But as we both know (because I think we have both been guilty at times though there are far worse culprits on here) it is all too easy to get too wound up about our views rather than disagree more courteously, which from what I have gathered about Sir David now, and from what I have read in the the past, is the way he did politics.

    I know politicians of all parties are respectfuland complimentary when one of their colleagues dies, but the reaction to his death has been exceptional for the upset and respect on all sides.
    In Southend, there is shock tbh. He was a respected man and even tried to make Southend a city.

  14. #54

    Re: Tory MP Stabbed

    If you Google and listen to his speeches you will be impressed even those as a strong right winger and Brexiteer .

    As someone has pointed out he'd have hated healthy political debate to be effected by this tradegy and that of Jo Cox both good people.

    Debate should continue as a right of free speech, but in a respectful way , and away from poor throw away four worded insults .

    Politics and its verbal exchanges have become worryingly aggressive, personal and near to harassment and bullying at times .

  15. #55

    Re: Tory MP Stabbed

    Quote Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue View Post
    It is bonkers over here Mate.
    The politicization of The vaccine and Mask Wearing just baffles me.

    I do think though, that the whole Western World is emersed in the same Cultural Civil War.
    It's no longer just a traditional Left v Right situation....you can throw the Intersectionality powder keg into the mix as well.

    The language used towards others on this board alone (Myself very much included) is terrible.
    Accusations of bigotry and facism are thrown about frivolously on Social Media.

    Maybe the answer is to have to register with ID to use Social Media.
    There has to be a line though right? We can't sanitise debate to the degree where nobody can have a strong opinion because it might incite some twat to go and stab somebody. On the point of civil debate, yeah you wont find me arguing that people dismiss and belittle other peoples opinions by chucking around words/phrases that don't often apply when scrutinised (nazi, fascist, far left, far right) but sometimes they do apply and some opinions are abhorrent, shouldn't be viewed as legitimate counter-positions and don't actually warrant respect.

  16. #56

    Re: Tory MP Stabbed

    Nice gesture

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-58951768

    A mural of Sir David Amess has appeared at a skatepark he opened 13 years ago

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