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Thread: People calling for Tan to go

  1. #76

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick View Post
    We'd have missed a season in the EPL. We would have missed more than a decade in the top two tiers. These things were pipe dreams in the 1990s, and the idea that we would have marched through the non leagues back to our current spot is fanciful in the extreme. You talk about the potential for investment- were you around in the 1990s? We were a better buy back then, when everyone actually thought we would get crowds of 40k+ if we made it to what is now the championship.

    I disagree with your statement.
    I would counter the following -

    I enjoyed some of the football more in the nineties than I did the EPL seasons.

    AFC Wimbledon.

    The investment now compared to the investment made in the 90s is incomparable.

  2. #77

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post

    Its more logical wed be non league.
    do you ever justify anything ? ****in awesome person to debate with fair play.

  3. #78

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Bury AFC restarted in North West Counties Division One, which is tier 10. It's asking quite a lot to go from tier 10 to tier 2 in 12 years.

  4. #79

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Wright View Post
    Ye....I realise I was a bit generous on the half a million.

    My point is , if we had gone out of business 12 or 13 years ago and had to reform in non-league, it'd be highly unlikely that we'd be much lower than we are at present, given the amount of money that would be invested in a club with the fanbase and catchment area we have. That's not me being arrogant , I just think it's the most logical outcome. We are not Halifax, Wrexham or Southend.

    People can talk about Tan saving us, but there is a reasonable likelihood that had he not saved us , we would be in a similar or even better situation now.

    We would be better in that we would likely have more supporter involvement. We'd more likely have a team and a style of football that we'd all like to see.
    while this looks great on the screen, let be honest, local business's with enough money were hardly kicking the clubs door down Before VT came, look at the late 90's were really needed some local investment and it never really happened, When Rick Wright was asking people to step forward and push on after the promotion season, very little happened

    When things were Dire, I know a few stepped forward, Steve Borely ploughed enough money in to keep the club alive

  5. #80

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Wright View Post
    do you ever justify anything ? ****in awesome person to debate with fair play.
    Yeah no players no money no owner no manager no coaches.

    First step ownership from somewhere found then we need a manager and players. Do we have a ground or has that gone.?

    We spent 20 plus years in the lower league so I dont think and all conquering phoenix club is going to storm through the non league and the lower divisions with no money and possibly no ground.

    Better going bust!!! Lunacy.

  6. #81

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Bury AFC restarted in North West Counties Division One, which is tier 10. It's asking quite a lot to go from tier 10 to tier 2 in 12 years.
    Wimbledon.

    Also, I think we have more potential to attract investment, even if only fan made, than bury or wimbledon.

    Not saying wed be back in the championship but I think we'd be there or there abouts......and with a sense of "club" that is impossible under the Emperor.

  7. #82

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    Yeah no players no money no owner no manager no coaches.

    First step ownership from somewhere found then we need a manager and players. Do we have a ground or has that gone.?

    We spent 20 plus years in the lower league so I dont think and all conquering phoenix club is going to storm through the non league and the lower divisions with no money and possibly no ground.

    Better going bust!!! Lunacy.

    Wimbledon.


    You'd also need investement from the fan base.

  8. #83

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Wright View Post
    Wimbledon.

    Also, I think we have more potential to attract investment, even if only fan made, than bury or wimbledon.

    Not saying wed be back in the championship but I think we'd be there or there abouts......and with a sense of "club" that is impossible under the Emperor.
    AFC Wimbledon have been going since 2003 and haven't made the Championship. They've actually only finished above 15th once in nine football league seasons (when they won promotion from FL2). Which is not to diminish what they've done, I think it's amazing.

    I used Bury as a recent example as I guessed that the league phoenix clubs go into may change over the years- but it would have made more sense to choose one from 12 years ago I suppose.


    It'd be nice to think that our fanbase would bond and work together to build up a phoenix club, but I dunno. We might end up with three

  9. #84

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Wright View Post
    Ye....I realise I was a bit generous on the half a million.

    My point is , if we had gone out of business 12 or 13 years ago and had to reform in non-league, it'd be highly unlikely that we'd be much lower than we are at present, given the amount of money that would be invested in a club with the fanbase and catchment area we have. That's not me being arrogant , I just think it's the most logical outcome. We are not Halifax, Wrexham or Southend.

    People can talk about Tan saving us, but there is a reasonable likelihood that had he not saved us , we would be in a similar or even better situation now.

    We would be better in that we would likely have more supporter involvement. We'd more likely have a team and a style of football that we'd all like to see.
    IF, now there’s a little word with a BIG meaning. No one knows exactly what would have happened if the Club had gone out of business 12 or so years ago. It’s all if’s and buts, only the present matters and what Vincent Tan does or doesn’t do now.

  10. #85

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    AFC Wimbledon have been going since 2003 and haven't made the Championship. They've actually only finished above 15th once in nine football league seasons (when they won promotion from FL2). Which is not to diminish what they've done, I think it's amazing.

    I used Bury as a recent example as I guessed that the league phoenix clubs go into may change over the years- but it would have made more sense to choose one from 12 years ago I suppose.


    It'd be nice to think that our fanbase would bond and work together to build up a phoenix club, but I dunno. We might end up with three
    Its a fair point. It would mean Cardiff City has died and gone forever. Your talking about a new club.

    There could be a couple of phoenix clubs. Why are we assuming a new Welsh Club would go straight through the English system. Could have a club in the Welsh league system.

    Thankfully its a scenario that hasnt happened and wishing it had happened as to our current predicament of a likely relegation to L1 is far far a better option.

  11. #86

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilts View Post
    Why are we assuming a new Welsh Club would go straight through the English system. Could have a club in the Welsh league system.

    I guess Newport were allowed back in.

  12. #87

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Wright View Post
    I guess Newport were allowed back in.
    No appetite from their support to set up a club in the Welsh system.

    Nothing to stop a group setting up a new club to compete in the Welsh system alongside a different club.

  13. #88

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    You can't have a Director of Football until you have someone competent enough to choose the right person for the job.

    If it's left to Choo and Dalman to pick the best man for the job, i.e. someone who has a wealth of football knowledge but hasn't held such a position before, then you wouldn't be overly confident they'd get it right - in the same way they seldom get their managerial selection right.
    The chain of events would require Choo and Dalman to leave first, before a DoF was brought in.

    If they were to remain, the only hope would be that they headhunt a 'tried and tested' DoF who is currently employed at another club, but that will likely come at a high risk of compensation payment.

  14. #89

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    AFC Wimbledon have been going since 2003 and haven't made the Championship. They've actually only finished above 15th once in nine football league seasons (when they won promotion from FL2). Which is not to diminish what they've done, I think it's amazing.

    I used Bury as a recent example as I guessed that the league phoenix clubs go into may change over the years- but it would have made more sense to choose one from 12 years ago I suppose.


    It'd be nice to think that our fanbase would bond and work together to build up a phoenix club, but I dunno. We might end up with three
    Cardiff, Unsalted Cardiff and I can't believe it's not Cardiff

  15. #90

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Tan has been a good owner in many respects but not having a football man on the board and leaving Dalman and co to select the manager has been gross incompetence.

  16. #91

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five View Post
    You can't have a Director of Football until you have someone competent enough to choose the right person for the job.

    If it's left to Choo and Dalman to pick the best man for the job, i.e. someone who has a wealth of football knowledge but hasn't held such a position before, then you wouldn't be overly confident they'd get it right - in the same way they seldom get their managerial selection right.
    The chain of events would require Choo and Dalman to leave first, before a DoF was brought in.

    If they were to remain, the only hope would be that they headhunt a 'tried and tested' DoF who is currently employed at another club, but that will likely come at a high risk of compensation payment.
    It cant happen, in the current football world and financial climate. How many other EFL clubs have a director of football currently ? - very few I would guess. Most managers also don't like working with a DoF.

  17. #92

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Bald Barry Bastad View Post
    Tan has been a good owner in many respects but not having a football man on the board and leaving Dalman and co to select the manager has been gross incompetence.
    The thing is, it is his club and his money. He can basically do what he likes and all the sniping and moaning is a waste of time. Fans would be better off using their time and efforts to get behind the team and help get them out of this dreadful run before it is too late. That, after all, is what the fans ‘job’ is. How can anyone call themselves a fan if they don't go to games or stop going because they don't like the manager, individual players, team tactics or the owner/chairman. That to me is the antithesis of what a fan should be.

  18. #93

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Tan has never been shy on the investment side of the club ( training complex, unused tier an academy)

    He has been badly burned by his advisors..
    -- those investors who reclaimed their millions for advising him we would love red leaving him to take the flak
    -- Warnock, spent millions on average aging players and allegedly taking backhanders.
    -- Malky as mentioned above somewhere was probably the catalyst Tan not trusting managers
    -- His 'yes' men at the club who take a huge wage and have allowed this situation.

    He is the owner of a global company and probably has little time to get involved in any of his football teams so relies on 'trusted' advisors whom are shockingly letting him down.

    Shame Rick Wright never had the money like Tan so just remember the owners like the Kumars and Hamman who cleaned us out all while pretending to love us!! oh and the riddler.

    maybe his new liverpool supporting addition to us could bear fruit

  19. #94

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by blue lewj View Post
    Cardiff, Unsalted Cardiff and I can't believe it's not Cardiff
    One would play in blue, one in red, and one in a mixture of red and blue, surely?

  20. #95

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    It always amazes me that not all the idiots are on the other board. Tan owns CCFC lock stock and barrel. Almost all of the debt is owed directly to Tan and without him the club is insolvent. In other words the club, at the present moment, is not a saleable proposition and nobody, in their right mind, would offer enough to at least cover Tan’s debt. Those buffoons calling for Vincent to go must ask themselves what lunatic is prepared to pay in excess of £100 million for a Championship club soon to be manager less and threatened with relegation!!

  21. #96

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by pomeroy View Post
    It always amazes me that not all the idiots are on the other board. Tan owns CCFC lock stock and barrel. Almost all of the debt is owed directly to Tan and without him the club is insolvent. In other words the club, at the present moment, is not a saleable proposition and nobody, in their right mind, would offer enough to at least cover Tan’s debt. Those buffoons calling for Vincent to go must ask themselves what lunatic is prepared to pay in excess of £100 million for a Championship club soon to be manager less and threatened with relegation!!
    Makes you wonder why Tan bought us in the first place.

  22. #97

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Soul '68 View Post
    One would play in blue, one in red, and one in a mixture of red and blue, surely?
    With an earwig on the badge.

  23. #98

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    I can understand people clinging to what we've currently got (which isn't much) rather than contemplate a future which could be even worse. Who knows what's round the corner?

    However, there's surely a stark reality to the direction the club is heading. It must be obvious to everyone Tan is looking to extricate himself from the club at the earliest opportunity and at a price of his choosing. When the red debacle finally ended he made it clear "no further significant investment' and for all his failings I believe him to be a man of his word.

    We will never make progress under his watch. His only concern is to make the club saleable and he wants hands on control of his personnel. Therefore even if he got rid of Dalman and Choo he would only likely recruit two lookalikes. He is never going to employ football people in the interests of developing the club.

    It actually might be in our interests to get relegated so that he might take a much lower bid just to get out of a failed project. Hopefully that might enable more forward thinking owners to put cash and knowledge into getting us on the right road.

  24. #99

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Money is a very good starting point though and my point is that the owner has pumped enough in for any vaguely competent CEO and Chairman to have made a better job of running the club than ours have.

    I’d like to believe that Tan, Dalman and Choo would finally see the light and accept that they don’t have the football knowledge collectively to tyrn us into, for example, a Burnley, Brighton, Palace, Brentford or even a Coventry, but City fans have been talking about the need for something like a Director of Football for five years and more and we’re still as far away as ever from appointing one.

    I’m guessing and I may be wrong, but I think the Mackay/Moody incident deeply effected Vincent Tan and has left him with a deep distrust of “football people” - it’s as if he has an advisor he trusts who makes recommendations on things like managerial appointments based on the sort of person they think Tan could work with.

    Four of our last five managers have been, basically, defensive, long ball merchants, hence we’ve ended with the current very limited technically squad of senior pros which are so much worse at retaining the ball than almost every team they play. This has been a gradual process which Tan, Dalman and Choo have done nothing to try to halt, so I can only conclude that it is a route they have been happy to go down - for me, given his public pronouncements on the game, it seems reasonable to believe that Vincent Tan likes us to be bigger and more physical than our opponents and has little patience with what he sees as messing about with the ball at the back, it’s entirely believable that he’d want us to lump it forward as soon as possible.
    I was just pointing out that too often money is seen as the answer, and people expect success just because money has been pumped in, but too often it doesn't work.

    There are more important things for the club to fix.

  25. #100

    Re: People calling for Tan to go

    Quote Originally Posted by pomeroy View Post
    Tan owns CCFC lock stock and barrel. Almost all of the debt is owed directly to Tan and without him the club is insolvent. In other words the club, at the present moment, is not a saleable proposition and nobody, in their right mind, would offer enough to at least cover Tan’s debt.
    If this is the case, does it mean Vincent Tan will own Cardiff City until he dies? And what happens then?

    If not, what do you reckon are the likeliest future scenarios?

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