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Thread: Welsh medium education

  1. #1

    Welsh medium education

    IMO not delivering value for money !!

  2. #2

    Re: Welsh medium education

    Would you care to expand on your reasons for your opinion?

  3. #3

    Re: Welsh medium education

    we could have a seance

  4. #4

    Re: Welsh medium education

    This is all small talk

  5. #5

    Re: Welsh medium education

    Quote Originally Posted by pomeroy View Post
    IMO not delivering value for money !!
    In what way?

    I have a theory that having separate Welsh and English medium schools doesn't help the Welsh language. I'd like to see those schools combined.

    Imagine a merger of an English and Welsh medium secondary school. All departments merge. Lessons are taught in both languages, depending on the choice of the child, so friends A and B are both going to their GCSE music class - A is in one room while B is next door being taught in Welsh. The environment would be truly bilingual. Those who learn in English are aware of Welsh being used and might feel there's more point to the Welsh language than some do currently. They get to go to school with their friends. Resources get pooled and strengthened by a merger. Welsh speaking staff in English medium schools are able to teach in Welsh. There would be some cost benefits as well. Some people might say that children learning through the medium of Welsh won't be in a Welsh-only environment, but the truth is that there is little Welsh spoken by kids in Welsh schools outside of the classroom, unless there are teachers about.

  6. #6

    Re: Welsh medium education

    Personally I hated learning Welsh at school my parents never spoke it at home even though my mother was from the northÖ.still canít get my head around the national anthem.

  7. #7

    Re: Welsh medium education

    Quote Originally Posted by Whisperer View Post
    Personally I hated learning Welsh at school my parents never spoke it at home even though my mother was from the northÖ.still canít get my head around the national anthem.
    Could both of your parents speak Welsh then? I know of a few couples where both speak Welsh but one is from the north and they struggle to understand each other in Welsh so just use English.

  8. #8

    Re: Welsh medium education

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    In what way?

    I have a theory that having separate Welsh and English medium schools doesn't help the Welsh language. I'd like to see those schools combined.

    Imagine a merger of an English and Welsh medium secondary school. All departments merge. Lessons are taught in both languages, depending on the choice of the child, so friends A and B are both going to their GCSE music class - A is in one room while B is next door being taught in Welsh. The environment would be truly bilingual. Those who learn in English are aware of Welsh being used and might feel there's more point to the Welsh language than some do currently. They get to go to school with their friends. Resources get pooled and strengthened by a merger. Welsh speaking staff in English medium schools are able to teach in Welsh. There would be some cost benefits as well. Some people might say that children learning through the medium of Welsh won't be in a Welsh-only environment, but the truth is that there is little Welsh spoken by kids in Welsh schools outside of the classroom, unless there are teachers about.
    Wouldnít work in my personal opinion

    Everyone that goes to a Welsh medium school buys in at the very start.

  9. #9

    Re: Welsh medium education

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Could both of your parents speak Welsh then? I know of a few couples where both speak Welsh but one is from the north and they struggle to understand each other in Welsh so just use English.
    I never heard my old man speak Welsh or any of my friends parents for that matter. Iím talking 60s - 70s

  10. #10

    Re: Welsh medium education

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    In what way?

    I have a theory that having separate Welsh and English medium schools doesn't help the Welsh language. I'd like to see those schools combined.

    Imagine a merger of an English and Welsh medium secondary school. All departments merge. Lessons are taught in both languages, depending on the choice of the child, so friends A and B are both going to their GCSE music class - A is in one room while B is next door being taught in Welsh. The environment would be truly bilingual. Those who learn in English are aware of Welsh being used and might feel there's more point to the Welsh language than some do currently. They get to go to school with their friends. Resources get pooled and strengthened by a merger. Welsh speaking staff in English medium schools are able to teach in Welsh. There would be some cost benefits as well. Some people might say that children learning through the medium of Welsh won't be in a Welsh-only environment, but the truth is that there is little Welsh spoken by kids in Welsh schools outside of the classroom, unless there are teachers about.
    Funny you should say this Eric, cardiff council want to expand a Welsh primary as itís full and has no space to expand in its current site, they also of course receive more money per pupil if they are learning in Welsh. My kids go to an English primary school nearby, a large site with two buildings, lots of space and itís possibly not full due to 3 other schools being within half a mile.
    We heard a few months ago the plan was to either swap sites or possibly merge giving the Welsh lot the smaller building for key stage 1, thus mixing the schools. Thought that might be quite a good idea but the welshy parents wanted all or nothing. The Welsh school is mainly all white middle class and ours is probably only 40%, itís one of the most cosmopolitan schools in cardiff and has kids recently arrived from all over including Iraq and the like. I know a few of the Welsh parents and they donít think they are but their views are bordering on racist which is why they donít want precious Jonny mixing with kids from such places.
    Put the council in a bit of a flux now anyway, all or nothing hasnít gone down well in our school. You would think with covid and kids well being they would have other focus anyway. We will see hey

  11. #11

    Re: Welsh medium education

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    Funny you should say this Eric, cardiff council want to expand a Welsh primary as itís full and has no space to expand in its current site, they also of course receive more money per pupil if they are learning in Welsh. My kids go to an English primary school nearby, a large site with two buildings, lots of space and itís possibly not full due to 3 other schools being within half a mile.
    We heard a few months ago the plan was to either swap sites or possibly merge giving the Welsh lot the smaller building for key stage 1, thus mixing the schools. Thought that might be quite a good idea but the welshy parents wanted all or nothing. The Welsh school is mainly all white middle class and ours is probably only 40%, itís one of the most cosmopolitan schools in cardiff and has kids recently arrived from all over including Iraq and the like. I know a few of the Welsh parents and they donít think they are but their views are bordering on racist which is why they donít want precious Jonny mixing with kids from such places.
    Put the council in a bit of a flux now anyway, all or nothing hasnít gone down well in our school. You would think with covid and kids well being they would have other focus anyway. We will see hey
    Yeah even the twee English middle class are learning the Welsh language - itís so in vogue.

  12. #12

    Re: Welsh medium education

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    Funny you should say this Eric, cardiff council want to expand a Welsh primary as itís full and has no space to expand in its current site, they also of course receive more money per pupil if they are learning in Welsh. My kids go to an English primary school nearby, a large site with two buildings, lots of space and itís possibly not full due to 3 other schools being within half a mile.
    We heard a few months ago the plan was to either swap sites or possibly merge giving the Welsh lot the smaller building for key stage 1, thus mixing the schools. Thought that might be quite a good idea but the welshy parents wanted all or nothing. The Welsh school is mainly all white middle class and ours is probably only 40%, itís one of the most cosmopolitan schools in cardiff and has kids recently arrived from all over including Iraq and the like. I know a few of the Welsh parents and they donít think they are but their views are bordering on racist which is why they donít want precious Jonny mixing with kids from such places.
    Put the council in a bit of a flux now anyway, all or nothing hasnít gone down well in our school. You would think with covid and kids well being they would have other focus anyway. We will see hey
    All schools are funded in the same way, a bloc grant depending on the number of places available and a set amount per pupil. A full school actually gets less per pupil than one with unfilled places Other grants top this up, a one class entry Welsh medium school, for example, would get just under £5000 for Welsh language resources out of a total grant of £150000, a school with falling numbers gets a share of a pot of over £1,000,000, grants are also made to schools for asylum seekers, pupils with special needs and those living in deprivation, the school you describe would be better funded than itís neighbouring welsh school. I appreciate that our childrenís education is always going to be an emotive topic, more so when issues like class, ethnicity and language are in the mix, but letís stick to the facts, I not sure using phrases like Ďthe welshy parentsí, Ďthe welsh lotí and Ďbordering on racistí really helps a sensible discussion, letís keep it civil.

  13. #13

    Re: Welsh medium education

    Quote Originally Posted by Whisperer View Post
    Yeah even the twee English middle class are learning the Welsh language - itís so in vogue.
    It's 'faux' Welsh. Probably the only language you'll hear around Riverside - sorry Pontcanna, most weekends. It's a major leg-up in getting a career in the Assembly, Local Council, or any of the 100's of quangos that have been created here in Wales over the past 20yrs.
    The Missus's 1st language was Welsh, and she would prefer our grandson was at a main stream English speaking school

  14. #14

    Re: Welsh medium education

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Could both of your parents speak Welsh then? I know of a few couples where both speak Welsh but one is from the north and they struggle to understand each other in Welsh so just use English.
    The accent is very weird isn't it.

  15. #15

    Re: Welsh medium education

    Quote Originally Posted by Toggs View Post
    All schools are funded in the same way, a bloc grant depending on the number of places available and a set amount per pupil. A full school actually gets less per pupil than one with unfilled places Other grants top this up, a one class entry Welsh medium school, for example, would get just under £5000 for Welsh language resources out of a total grant of £150000, a school with falling numbers gets a share of a pot of over £1,000,000, grants are also made to schools for asylum seekers, pupils with special needs and those living in deprivation, the school you describe would be better funded than it’s neighbouring welsh school. I appreciate that our children’s education is always going to be an emotive topic, more so when issues like class, ethnicity and language are in the mix, but let’s stick to the facts, I not sure using phrases like ‘the welshy parents’, ‘the welsh lot’ and ‘bordering on racist’ really helps a sensible discussion, let’s keep it civil.
    Sure but my next door neighbour whose kids go to the Welsh school told me a lot of the parents don’t want their kids mixing with “foreign” kids in educational settings as they believe it holds them back or whatever excuse they can come up with, some of which I cannot repeat. 95% of the parents don’t speak Welsh anyway, so their not welshies really. And a very good mate of mine told me the council get more funding for Welsh speaking places, he’s very high up in the education dept.

  16. #16

    Re: Welsh medium education

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    Sure but my next door neighbour whose kids go to the Welsh school told me a lot of the parents donít want their kids mixing with ďforeignĒ kids in educational settings as they believe it holds them back or whatever excuse they can come up with, some of which I cannot repeat. 95% of the parents donít speak Welsh anyway, so their not welshies really. And a very good mate of mine told me the council get more funding for Welsh speaking places, heís very high up in the education dept.
    Most kids taught in a Welsh medium school end up at a major disadvantage when later attending an English medium uni. I have many lecturer friends who have highlighted this a major issue, more so in science based subjects. Why not learn a modern European language? Much more useful.

  17. #17

    Re: Welsh medium education

    It's great to hear welsh spoken , I am certain the language is stronger than it has been for many many years . Welsh is not going to vanish .

    I do worry when the Welsh govt puts targets such as 20 percent etc speaking Welsh as first language within 5 years or whatever

    We surely have enough Welsh medium schools now ?

    We know that the language was nearly wiped out 100 plus years ago .....thankfully that's not going to happen now

    I am not interested in learning Welsh but it sounds great 👍

  18. #18

    Re: Welsh medium education

    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    Most kids taught in a Welsh medium school end up at a major disadvantage when later attending an English medium uni. I have many lecturer friends who have highlighted this a major issue, more so in science based subjects. Why not learn a modern European language? Much more useful.
    This is something I noticed as a teenager, after going to Welsh primary then English comp.

    It is definitely an issue

  19. #19

    Re: Welsh medium education

    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    Most kids taught in a Welsh medium school end up at a major disadvantage when later attending an English medium uni. I have many lecturer friends who have highlighted this a major issue, more so in science based subjects. Why not learn a modern European language? Much more useful.
    I know, quite a few of my mates went to glantaff and struggled a bit at uni. Itís such an easy language Welsh anyway, my 8 year old has had a few Welsh speaking teachers so is pretty good already as they do learn a fair bit. He will easily be fluent by 16 so why the need to do everything in Welsh? Seems a bit OTT.

  20. #20

    Re: Welsh medium education

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    It's great to hear welsh spoken , I am certain the language is stronger than it has been for many many years . Welsh is not going to vanish .

    I do worry when the Welsh govt puts targets such as 20 percent etc speaking Welsh as first language within 5 years or whatever

    We surely have enough Welsh medium schools now ?

    We know that the language was nearly wiped out 100 plus years ago .....thankfully that's not going to happen now

    I am not interested in learning Welsh but it sounds great ��
    Yeah definitely embrace it, all kids can learn it, it’s pretty simple, no need to ram it down though

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