£9.50 Minimum Living Wage On The Way

[Feedback]

I recall you calling George Osborne a centrist...

Osborne was a centrist, certainly his approach was not all tax cuts followed by cuts to spending. Under Osborne, the Tories embarked on a policy of increasing tax revenues as a proportion of national income way above what New Labour had done previously.

[Croesy Blue]

To clarify: I don't think they are "doing nothing", I said that because an earlier post said that is a criticism of UBI.

My point was that I didnt understand in practice how it was different to current benefits, although I do appreciate, in theory, it could provide more of a safety blanket.

Why have such strong opinions about things you don’t fully understand ?

[JamesWales]

Why have such strong opinions about things you don’t fully understand ?

I don't have strong opinions about it. As you will see if you scroll up.

[Feedback]

Why have such strong opinions about things you don’t fully understand ?

this is not your first day on the internet is it?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I'll introduce you to them sludge. A £1000 to the charity of your choice if I'm shown to be wrong. £1000 to my charity of choice if I'm right.

Just so you know, my charity is the Rescue Hotel who are building a new dogs home on Penarth Road. I'll let them know you'll be making the donation before the weekend. please have courage in your convictions as I'm sure you'll agree the cause is worthy

I know someone who runs an international top 3 bank but I wouldn't introduce him to you

Tell me their names , I can speak to them myself and tell them you think they are second rate keynsians

[Feedback]

I know someone who runs an international top 3 bank but I wouldn't introduce him to you

Tell me their names , I can speak to them myself and tell them you think they are second rate keynsians

I don't think I said they're second rate. I said the IFS is full of economists who lean to the left. Conversely, I'd also say those at the top of the IFS tree lean to the right.

One of the economists is a local boy from Ponty, ex Cambridge and LSE. just saying

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Osborne was a centrist, certainly his approach was not all tax cuts followed by cuts to spending. Under Osborne, the Tories embarked on a policy of increasing tax revenues as a proportion of national income way above what New Labour had done previously.

Austerity

Huge cuts to spending

Nothing to do with Osborne

It must have been someone else

[Feedback]

Austerity

Huge cuts to spending

Nothing to do with Osborne

It must have been someone else

Sludge,

as always with you it is black and white with nothing inbetween (a bit like your ears).

The deficit was £157bn in 2008 and back then the general perception was that it needed trimming. The way to do this was cuts to public spending. Now if Osborne embarked on a cuts only programme without raising taxes, there would be some merit in your argument. But Osborne opted to raise taxes and cut services to try and balance the books.

[Croesy Blue]

this is not your first day on the internet is it?

I wish it was your last

[Feedback]

I wish it was your last

[life on mars]

Osborne was a centrist, certainly his approach was not all tax cuts followed by cuts to spending. Under Osborne, the Tories embarked on a policy of increasing tax revenues as a proportion of national income way above what New Labour had done previously.

He was considered too left within the Tory party, introduced triple pension lock some folk I know like that policy.

[AfricanBluebird]

I'm sceptical, but also interested in it.

What I don't really understand is how or why it would be so transformative. If someone is currently unemployed or in low paid work and struggling with housing costs then they will receive benefits for "doing nothing". UBI essentially proposes the same doesn't it?

Is the main difference that they know they will keep the UBI even if they take on work? I can see how this provides some stability, but again isn't entirely different in practice to how benefits currently work.

I also struggle to see how other costs won't just realign themselves to the new income reality.

Yeah it's super interesting.

And the reality is that there needs to be social change as well... So people are unshackled by the capatalist systems of old which quite frankly have proven that the markets are not the Be all and End all ... And can cause huge disparity in wealth.

In the valleys there are three generations of people who gave been on benefits and the mentality becomes institutionalised. And sadly the Tories stripped away funding for surestart centres which were helping address that.

Of course the answer is not cutting benefits... I certainly wouldn't want someone working for me because they are forced to because their benefits have been cut ...

But the answer is of course a different structure of supporting people and also improving opportunities, self esteem etc

[dembethewarrior]

I remember my sister had a small business, she started out on her own then as she got busier she needed to take on help, I remember it being a while before she started making any real money as she saw the benefit of having help there.

If she had to pay £13 an hour to those staff it wouldn't be worth opening the doors.

I can imagine plenty of others are in a similar position.

[Eric Cartman]

I remember my sister had a small business, she started out on her own then as she got busier she needed to take on help, I remember it being a while before she started making any real money as she saw the benefit of having help there.

If she had to pay £13 an hour to those staff it wouldn't be worth opening the doors.

I can imagine plenty of others are in a similar position.

If you want to set minimum wage by asking business what they can afford to pay then you probably shouldn't bother having one.

[blue matt]

Many Skilled Manual jobs dont even earn £13 a hour, Hairdressers, people employed in the building trades ( even getting close to carpenters ), its certainly above even Teacher assistants in Primary schools aswell

So I guess that'll mean they will get a increase in salary

[Tuerto]

Many Skilled Manual jobs dont even earn £13 a hour, Hairdressers, people employed in the building trades ( even getting close to carpenters ), its certainly above even Teacher assistants in Primary schools aswell

So I guess that'll mean they will get a increase in salary

Any skilled labour in the building trade is on at least £20 per hour.

[blue matt]

Any skilled labour in the building trade is on at least £20 per hour.

A old work mate of mine has just started doing housing association work ( fitting kitchens ) and he is on the books and is getting 15 quid a hour, suppling his own power tools aswell

[Tuerto]

A old work mate of mine has just started doing housing association work ( fitting kitchens ) and he is on the books and is getting 15 quid a hour, suppling his own power tools aswell

Is he a chippie? Time served?

[blue matt]

Is he a chippie? Time served?

Yes and Yes, He used to run Jobs with me as a Foreman about 20 years go in fact the last time I was " on the books " we were the 2 foreman of the building firm we worked for

[dembethewarrior]

Many Skilled Manual jobs dont even earn £13 a hour, Hairdressers, people employed in the building trades ( even getting close to carpenters ), its certainly above even Teacher assistants in Primary schools aswell

So I guess that'll mean they will get a increase in salary

Some companies don't pay safety critical staff that wage on the railways.

Literally have peoples lives in their hands.

But yeah let's pay everyone that.

[delmbox]

Some companies don't pay safety critical staff that wage on the railways.

Literally have peoples lives in their hands.

But yeah let's pay everyone that.

XXXX are underpaid therefore everybody beneath them should be underpaid accordingly on a sliding scale is a pretty depressing point of view

[Eric Cartman]

XXXX are underpaid therefore everybody beneath them should be underpaid accordingly on a sliding scale is a pretty depressing point of view

I remember a few years back when Labour proposed increasing tax on those earning over 80k and this board was full of people saying '80k doesn't go far in London', now £13 an hour is raking it in, what has changed?

[Feedback]

Some companies don't pay safety critical staff that wage on the railways.

Literally have peoples lives in their hands.

But yeah let's pay everyone that.

some pilots are on £25k per annum, which is around £12.50 for a 40 hour week. There aren't many jobs which are as skilled as a pilot.

[Citizen's Nephew]

some pilots are on £25k per annum, which is around £12.50 for a 40 hour week. There aren't many jobs which are as skilled as a pilot.

Except the literally thousands of other professions that are, of course. All of those skilled professions are needed. It's just as a society, we don't value them in the same way. We do clap though, which is something I suppose.

[Jimmy the Jock]

some pilots are on £25k per annum, which is around £12.50 for a 40 hour week. There aren't many jobs which are as skilled as a pilot.

Perhaps they should retrain ?

Truck drivers are earning 40-50k per annum at the moment. Another skilled job...