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Thread: Christmas

  1. #141

    Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Show me a Christian who doesn't and I would question their Christianity! Faith without works is dead etc.
    I completely agree, while good works can't save anyone they are verification of our new relationship - by grace, through faith - with Christ being genuine - Lord knows there is no shortage of false christians all over the place.

    Jesus said 'by their fruits shall you know them' and once again He was correct.

    As we are into the advent season, have you ever seen this video? - The Star of Bethlehem.
    A few of my agnostic friends have found it particularly interesting as science is naturally their lense for viewing life and purpose in general.

  2. #142
    International jon1959's Avatar
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    Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Show me a Christian who doesn't and I would question their Christianity! Faith without works is dead etc.
    Your point really needs an illustration:

    Trump bible.jpeg

  3. #143

    Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lung View Post
    Anyone got any idea what I can get my mother for Christmas?
    I came into this thread a bit late so have not replied to the OP (who has probably given up and gone away by now )

    I don't know how old your mother is or her circumstances but if she is my age (70+) then I would say she wants nothing other than to know that her son still loves and cares for her.

  4. #144

    Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    Your point really needs an illustration:

    Trump bible.jpeg
    I said show me a Christian!

  5. #145

    Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    I completely agree, while good works can't save anyone they are verification of our new relationship - by grace, through faith - with Christ being genuine - Lord knows there is no shortage of false christians all over the place.

    Jesus said 'by their fruits shall you know them' and once again He was correct.

    As we are into the advent season, have you ever seen this video? - The Star of Bethlehem.
    A few of my agnostic friends have found it particularly interesting as science is naturally their lense for viewing life and purpose in general.
    I made a note of the link from your earlier post but have not got around to watching it yet.

  6. #146

    Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Thanks. Yes, I agree, these threads often descend into puerile name calling and abuse. Sadly this inevitably reflects the character of the poster and denigrates them, rather than the intended recipient. " But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them". Matthew 15:18.

    I tend not to reply to such posts anymore anyway unless there is some specific point to address.
    Iím not religious at all (if thatís even a thing?) but I do have faith in people most of the time and that quote resonates with me. I donít always live up to it but I wish I did.

  7. #147

    Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    I understand that, however what gofer blue and myself have isn't a dry, boring, negative, dated and irrelevant religion; it's vibrant, relevant and as up to date as ever relationship with a God who has never let us down (and I am saying that knowing what all genuine Christians would say, not having consulted Gofer Blue, he can either confirm this or otherwise).

    So in short, we have no negative aspects, because our faith isn't IN religion.
    Your "god" has never let you down? I find that very, very hard to believe. Why did she not intervene with Covid-19? Or Hitler? Or ISIS? Or Mick McCarthy? Or that fake Chelsea equalizer?

    From my viewpoint your god's a complete blow-hard wastrel.

  8. #148

    Re: Christmas

    I think I'll give up on these religious 'debates'. A great many people who are indoctrinated as children will believe the most ridiculous tosh for which there is absolutely zero evidence. The following are just a miniscule proportion of the ludicrous stories that people swallow whole. The list could go on and on and rational debate is impossible with people who believe it all.

    A talking snake
    Virgin birth
    Noah being 500 years old when he built the Ark
    David presenting the foreskins of 200 victims in order to marry the king's daughter
    God making a donkey have the power of speech
    Creatures with wings and four faces
    Moses banishing people with damaged testicles offering food at the temple
    Lot offering his daughters to be raped to save two angels being raped
    Lot's daughter getting their father drunk to have sex with him
    Human-God hybrids
    God punishing Nebuchadnezzar by making him live in the fields as a cow for 7 seasons
    Jonah being rescued by living in a fish for 3 days
    God sparing Moses from death after the latter's wife cuts their child's foreskin and applies the blood to Moses' feet

    Oh yeah, God created a miracle by raising the ground under the feet of St David so that the crowd could see him but chose not to intervene during the holocaust. It's an insult to one's intelligence, it really is.

  9. #149

    Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    I think I'll give up on these religious 'debates'. A great many people who are indoctrinated as children will believe the most ridiculous tosh for which there is absolutely zero evidence. The following are just a miniscule proportion of the ludicrous stories that people swallow whole. The list could go on and on and rational debate is impossible with people who believe it all.

    A talking snake
    Virgin birth
    Noah being 500 years old when he built the Ark
    David presenting the foreskins of 200 victims in order to marry the king's daughter
    God making a donkey have the power of speech
    Creatures with wings and four faces
    Moses banishing people with damaged testicles offering food at the temple
    Lot offering his daughters to be raped to save two angels being raped
    Lot's daughter getting their father drunk to have sex with him
    Human-God hybrids
    God punishing Nebuchadnezzar by making him live in the fields as a cow for 7 seasons
    Jonah being rescued by living in a fish for 3 days
    God sparing Moses from death after the latter's wife cuts their child's foreskin and applies the blood to Moses' feet

    Oh yeah, God created a miracle by raising the ground under the feet of St David so that the crowd could see him but chose not to intervene during the holocaust. It's an insult to one's intelligence, it really is.
    You're a wizard Harry, a wizard.

  10. #150

    Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bloop View Post
    You're a wizard Harry, a wizard.
    Is that a Frank Bruno quote?

  11. #151

    Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Is that a Frank Bruno quote?


    Is the talking donkey from the bible the same one as in Shrek do you think?

    As for not intervening in the Holocaust, maybe your man Jesus really holds a grudge

  12. #152

    Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    I think I'll give up on these religious 'debates'. A great many people who are indoctrinated as children will believe the most ridiculous tosh for which there is absolutely zero evidence. The following are just a miniscule proportion of the ludicrous stories that people swallow whole. The list could go on and on and rational debate is impossible with people who believe it all.

    A talking snake
    Virgin birth
    Noah being 500 years old when he built the Ark
    David presenting the foreskins of 200 victims in order to marry the king's daughter
    God making a donkey have the power of speech
    Creatures with wings and four faces
    Moses banishing people with damaged testicles offering food at the temple
    Lot offering his daughters to be raped to save two angels being raped
    Lot's daughter getting their father drunk to have sex with him
    Human-God hybrids
    God punishing Nebuchadnezzar by making him live in the fields as a cow for 7 seasons
    Jonah being rescued by living in a fish for 3 days
    God sparing Moses from death after the latter's wife cuts their child's foreskin and applies the blood to Moses' feet

    Oh yeah, God created a miracle by raising the ground under the feet of St David so that the crowd could see him but chose not to intervene during the holocaust. It's an insult to one's intelligence, it really is.
    Regarding indoctrinated children. Children tend to grow into adults don't they and make their own minds up? I rejected Christianity in my teens because of the hypocrisy I witnessed among some ďChristiansĒ plus I thought science had all the answers.

    You are right, the early Jews certainly had some strange notions/customs/events it seems and I cannot explain them all. Thankfully Jesus speaks about the new covenant and it is he that I choose to follow. Without Jesus I would find it difficult to believe in God as the one sometimes portrayed in the Old Testament. I would say that Jesus is far more concerned with matters of the human condition, how a person thinks and lives, and having a personal relationship with him, not whether they believe in every detail in the Old Testament. I am content with the knowledge that the books therein point to the coming of a Messiah and the prophesies about Jesus, all of which have been fulfilled so far, bar the second coming.

    Let's suppose you and others are right, I am completely deluded, and the whole thing is indeed a load of baloney. All I can say is I was glad I chose to follow the Jesus way, tried to be a good witness for him, and hopefully played some (minuscule) part in leaving the world in a slightly better shape for having been here. It's a shame that more people do not accept Jesus, even if just for his teachings alone, the world would be a much better place IMO.

    This may now be a good time for me to bow out gracefully from this thread. You and others on here know where I stand, there is no more to be said. Feel free to ridicule me in my absence!

    Let this verse have the last say: "Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires". 2 Peter 3:3.

  13. #153

    Re: Christmas

    Fair enough, itís clearly helpful for you Gofer.

    And for those aspire to live a good life without the supernatural there is always something like this: https://understandinghumanism.org.uk/what-is-humanism/

    Although Iíd say itís not really necessary to sign-up and commit to any particular religion or Ďismí. There are wide-ranging of sources of inspiration and guidance easily accessible to us today if helpful from time to time.

  14. #154

    Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    I think I'll give up on these religious 'debates'. A great many people who are indoctrinated as children will believe the most ridiculous tosh for which there is absolutely zero evidence. The following are just a miniscule proportion of the ludicrous stories that people swallow whole. The list could go on and on and rational debate is impossible with people who believe it all.

    A talking snake
    Virgin birth
    Noah being 500 years old when he built the Ark
    David presenting the foreskins of 200 victims in order to marry the king's daughter
    God making a donkey have the power of speech
    Creatures with wings and four faces
    Moses banishing people with damaged testicles offering food at the temple
    Lot offering his daughters to be raped to save two angels being raped
    Lot's daughter getting their father drunk to have sex with him
    Human-God hybrids
    God punishing Nebuchadnezzar by making him live in the fields as a cow for 7 seasons
    Jonah being rescued by living in a fish for 3 days
    God sparing Moses from death after the latter's wife cuts their child's foreskin and applies the blood to Moses' feet

    Oh yeah, God created a miracle by raising the ground under the feet of St David so that the crowd could see him but chose not to intervene during the holocaust. It's an insult to one's intelligence, it really is.
    Yes, you'd need to be almighty to do ALL of those things!

  15. #155

    Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Yes, you'd need to be almighty to do ALL of those things!
    But not stop the Holocaust and let babies be born with aids

  16. #156

    Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    But not stop the Holocaust and let babies be born with aids
    Give the guy a break, he's 6,000 years old!

  17. #157

    Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    But not stop the Holocaust and let babies be born with aids
    If this was it, then I would fully understand your problem with inherited diseases or the attempted extermination of a nation.
    However if this life is just a brief period (even if we live to 100 years+) of preparation in allowing your eternal soul to reside in the domain you yourself have chosen, then the entire picture changes.

  18. #158

    Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    If this was it, then I would fully understand your problem with inherited diseases or the attempted extermination of a nation.
    However if this life is just a brief period (even if we live to 100 years+) of preparation in allowing your eternal soul to reside in the domain you yourself have chosen, then the entire picture changes.
    I'm not sure it justifies it tbh. Do you believe god is all powerful and omnipotent?

  19. #159

    Re: Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    I'm not sure it justifies it tbh. Do you believe god is all powerful and omnipotent?
    Yes I do. Yet why do you think He should always act using the limited wisdom of humanity?

    If He had stuck to such limitations could He have produced amazing DNA or all the features of the Universe?

    If you need to see His "Signature" (the image by which he's known across the planet) then it can be seen at the centre of this NASA image of the Whirlpool Galaxy:-
    >> whirlpool galaxy nasa

  20. #160

    Re: Christmas

    Sounds a bit of a dick move to let that happen to kids when he could stop it.

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