Reply With QuoteIt's not a solid progressive principle, its antagonism towards blm , thats what it's aboutOriginally Posted by JamesWales
I hope you are sensible enough to see that
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If someone actually thinks all lives matter is the equivalent of blm I honestly don’t think they’re worth engaging with if they still think it after it’s pointed out why it was started. I wouldn’t waste my time replying to James again.
Again for the hard of hearing; Black Lives Matter doesn’t mean only Black Lives Matter. It means they currently don’t matter and should matter as much as other people’s lives do.
It's not a solid progressive principle, its antagonism towards blm , thats what it's about
I hope you are sensible enough to see that
In one
Is it a start though? Or is it exacerbating and highlighting differences between groups and allowing some very unsavoury groups to be associated under the banner?
No one is saying it's the same. I'm just saying thatconsistently preaching that all lives matter is, or certainly can be, a pretty reasonable and progressive statement that doesn't seel to drive wedges.
Bad characters will always attach themselves to all groups, BLM certainly included but it doesn't mean it represents all members.
I honestly think it will create more division than it solves. There's a reason the football authorities rightly stressed the taking of the knee shouldn't be seen as connected to the organisation
All lives matter is always going to be associated with racists
And that's because it attracts them
People I know but do not associate with who cry all lives matter are racists and have been long before the George Floyd murder
I am afraid its like moths to a light
Perhaps in hindsight, Black Lives Matter Too may have been a more understandable slogan, especially to the ignorant churning out all lives matter.
It wouldn’t matter the type of people you’d want it to be more clear for don’t actually give a shit anyway. They would have come up with something as equally disingenuous as all lives matter.
I can’t believe there are people who say it in good faith with no agenda.
Gammon lives don't matter
Agreed, or they're really thick and don't understand the message. Protests aren't really protests if they encompass every last person on this planet. Just aint gonna work.
Can you please enlighten me as to why saying Black Lives Matter drives wedges?
Everyone shouted 'All lives Matter' Then they went home.
Speaking as someone who has brought a Syrian refugee family to live in the UK under the Home Office local community sponsorship scheme I would say that first priority needs to be given to families with young children. These families could be segregated in France and be brought over safely by normal means i.e. cross channel ferries, thus avoiding the sea crossing in flimsy inflatables and of course the people smugglers who provide them.
Saying it doesn't, same as saying Jewish lives matter or all lives matter doesn't.
The organisation though, at the forefront of identity politics fundamentally is shifting how we view society, entrenching within us that our most important characteristics are those which we cannot control; sex, skin colour, nationality etc
By endlessly prefixing people with a skin colour you seperate us up. Sometimes that is relevent in understanding social issues, but usually it isn't.
There is very little progressive about it. It is the wrong diagnosis of the problem and when you get the diagnosis wrong, you get the medicine to fix it wrong. For example, there has been a massive increase in black people murdered in the last year as police have retreated more. This helps no one. It's far from all tied to th BLM movement but it's all connected. There is no focus on what actually kills most black people.
I don't advocate some of the extremists that latch on to 'all lives matter' anymore than the small minority of extremists those who latch onto 'black lives matter' (and someone who does and who posted about killing white people murdered six of them last week by driving his car into them).
It's just all very reactionary and the end result will drive us apart and amplify difference, where we stop seeing people and start seeing a colour.
There's loads of interesting articles on it.
https://unherd.com/2020/08/why-racia...e-reactionary/
https://youtu.be/HT0P3eeMO08
I think this sums up the regressive nature of a lot of identity politics for me.
https://youtu.be/Ev373c7wSRg
Good for you, and I agree.
The same people who say all lives matter will go about “identity politics” like it’s some silver bullet to the whole thing.
To most people Black Lives Matter means don’t be racist. People will twist it and the politics but they’re very transparent.
Anyone saying all lives matter is either stupid, ignorant or trying to detract from the actual message. They aren’t worth debating it with .
To effectively say "anyone who disagrees with me is ignorant or stupid" takes quite some lack of self awareness.
I hope ur right. I suspect you aren't. I think you are making things worse.
What does All lives matter mean then? It's obvious what black lives matter means.
I would suggest it means that it's better, more progressive to go down the route of treating all human beings with equal dignity and not dividing up along racial lines.
I'm not saying I go around saying it - I don't. My point was that the debate has become so utterly preposterous that someone felt, admittedly in jest perhaps, that saying 'all lives matter' is comparable to trying to prevent the RNLI from saving drowning people.
If anything demonstrates how toxic and divisive this is then it's that. A perfectly reasonable, rational phrase has become toxic because it doesn't fit the identity politics, racialised narrative that determines that skin colour MUST play a part.
We need to step back from this way of thinking in my opinion. It's dangerous stuff.
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