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Thread: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

  1. #101

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    If someone actually thinks all lives matter is the equivalent of blm I honestly don’t think they’re worth engaging with if they still think it after it’s pointed out why it was started. I wouldn’t waste my time replying to James again.

    Again for the hard of hearing; Black Lives Matter doesn’t mean only Black Lives Matter. It means they currently don’t matter and should matter as much as other people’s lives do.

  2. #102

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    It may be. For some people. But the point is you can stand by all lives matter as s solid progressive principle and it doesn't mean you advocate stopping the RNLI saving lives.

    The world is nuanced
    It's not a solid progressive principle, its antagonism towards blm , thats what it's about

    I hope you are sensible enough to see that

  3. #103

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    If someone actually thinks all lives matter is the equivalent of blm I honestly don’t think they’re worth engaging with if they still think it after it’s pointed out why it was started. I wouldn’t waste my time replying to James again.

    Again for the hard of hearing; Black Lives Matter doesn’t mean only Black Lives Matter. It means they currently don’t matter and should matter as much as other people’s lives do.
    In one

  4. #104

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    BLM will not solve the problem of racism but its a start

    All lives matter is cried out by on the whole racists who simply use the phrase to deflect from their own racism . Its yeah but what about us ! ......without accepting the clear reason for protest by black people affected by racism in the first place .

    I think shouting out ....all lives matter ! ....is clearly a defensive cry that wouldn't be needed if the issue of racism was addressed in the first place .

    A bloke I know has a shop where he pontificate to people who are in there long enough about George Floyd being a bad guy ......which he was .....without talking about the racism that killed him . During the BLM summer he was full of stuff he had lifted from the Internet from mostly dubious sources about the protestors all being ....Marxists! .....and that the knee on his neck not being in any way related to his death . He was a black historian , a toxicologist , a pathologist and a scenes of crime expert , every day in his shop . Where no black people would go , in a town where very few black people lived and in his life where he didn't know any black people .

    He is an idiot and as soon as the all lives matter cry went up , he was shouting .

    There are loads of people like him , just in Wales .

    Racists .
    Is it a start though? Or is it exacerbating and highlighting differences between groups and allowing some very unsavoury groups to be associated under the banner?

  5. #105

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    In one
    No one is saying it's the same. I'm just saying thatconsistently preaching that all lives matter is, or certainly can be, a pretty reasonable and progressive statement that doesn't seel to drive wedges.

    Bad characters will always attach themselves to all groups, BLM certainly included but it doesn't mean it represents all members.

    I honestly think it will create more division than it solves. There's a reason the football authorities rightly stressed the taking of the knee shouldn't be seen as connected to the organisation

  6. #106

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    No one is saying it's the same. I'm just saying thatconsistently preaching that all lives matter is, or certainly can be, a pretty reasonable and progressive statement that doesn't seel to drive wedges.

    Bad characters will always attach themselves to all groups, BLM certainly included but it doesn't mean it represents all members.

    I honestly think it will create more division than it solves. There's a reason the football authorities rightly stressed the taking of the knee shouldn't be seen as connected to the organisation
    All lives matter is always going to be associated with racists

    And that's because it attracts them

    People I know but do not associate with who cry all lives matter are racists and have been long before the George Floyd murder

    I am afraid its like moths to a light

  7. #107

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Perhaps in hindsight, Black Lives Matter Too may have been a more understandable slogan, especially to the ignorant churning out all lives matter.

  8. #108

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Quote Originally Posted by splott parker View Post
    Perhaps in hindsight, Black Lives Matter Too may have been a more understandable slogan, especially to the ignorant churning out all lives matter.
    It wouldn’t matter the type of people you’d want it to be more clear for don’t actually give a shit anyway. They would have come up with something as equally disingenuous as all lives matter.

    I can’t believe there are people who say it in good faith with no agenda.

  9. #109

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Gammon lives don't matter

  10. #110

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    It wouldn’t matter the type of people you’d want it to be more clear for don’t actually give a shit anyway. They would have come up with something as equally disingenuous as all lives matter.

    I can’t believe there are people who say it in good faith with no agenda.
    Agreed, or they're really thick and don't understand the message. Protests aren't really protests if they encompass every last person on this planet. Just aint gonna work.

  11. #111

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    No one is saying it's the same. I'm just saying thatconsistently preaching that all lives matter is, or certainly can be, a pretty reasonable and progressive statement that doesn't seel to drive wedges.
    Can you please enlighten me as to why saying Black Lives Matter drives wedges?

  12. #112

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Can you please enlighten me as to why saying Black Lives Matter drives wedges?
    Everyone shouted 'All lives Matter' Then they went home.

  13. #113

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Speaking as someone who has brought a Syrian refugee family to live in the UK under the Home Office local community sponsorship scheme I would say that first priority needs to be given to families with young children. These families could be segregated in France and be brought over safely by normal means i.e. cross channel ferries, thus avoiding the sea crossing in flimsy inflatables and of course the people smugglers who provide them.

  14. #114

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Can you please enlighten me as to why saying Black Lives Matter drives wedges?
    Saying it doesn't, same as saying Jewish lives matter or all lives matter doesn't.

    The organisation though, at the forefront of identity politics fundamentally is shifting how we view society, entrenching within us that our most important characteristics are those which we cannot control; sex, skin colour, nationality etc

    By endlessly prefixing people with a skin colour you seperate us up. Sometimes that is relevent in understanding social issues, but usually it isn't.

    There is very little progressive about it. It is the wrong diagnosis of the problem and when you get the diagnosis wrong, you get the medicine to fix it wrong. For example, there has been a massive increase in black people murdered in the last year as police have retreated more. This helps no one. It's far from all tied to th BLM movement but it's all connected. There is no focus on what actually kills most black people.

    I don't advocate some of the extremists that latch on to 'all lives matter' anymore than the small minority of extremists those who latch onto 'black lives matter' (and someone who does and who posted about killing white people murdered six of them last week by driving his car into them).

    It's just all very reactionary and the end result will drive us apart and amplify difference, where we stop seeing people and start seeing a colour.

    There's loads of interesting articles on it.
    https://unherd.com/2020/08/why-racia...e-reactionary/

    https://youtu.be/HT0P3eeMO08

  15. #115

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    I think this sums up the regressive nature of a lot of identity politics for me.

    https://youtu.be/Ev373c7wSRg

  16. #116

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Speaking as someone who has brought a Syrian refugee family to live in the UK under the Home Office local community sponsorship scheme I would say that first priority needs to be given to families with young children. These families could be segregated in France and be brought over safely by normal means i.e. cross channel ferries, thus avoiding the sea crossing in flimsy inflatables and of course the people smugglers who provide them.
    Good for you, and I agree.

  17. #117

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Everyone shouted 'All lives Matter' Then they went home.
    The same people who say all lives matter will go about “identity politics” like it’s some silver bullet to the whole thing.

    To most people Black Lives Matter means don’t be racist. People will twist it and the politics but they’re very transparent.

    Anyone saying all lives matter is either stupid, ignorant or trying to detract from the actual message. They aren’t worth debating it with .

  18. #118

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    The same people who say all lives matter will go about “identity politics” like it’s some silver bullet to the whole thing.

    To most people Black Lives Matter means don’t be racist. People will twist it and the politics but they’re very transparent.

    Anyone saying all lives matter is either stupid, ignorant or trying to detract from the actual message. They aren’t worth debating it with .
    To effectively say "anyone who disagrees with me is ignorant or stupid" takes quite some lack of self awareness.

    I hope ur right. I suspect you aren't. I think you are making things worse.

  19. #119

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    To effectively say "anyone who disagrees with me is ignorant or stupid" takes quite some lack of self awareness.

    I hope ur right. I suspect you aren't. I think you are making things worse.
    What does All lives matter mean then? It's obvious what black lives matter means.

  20. #120

    Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    What does All lives matter mean then? It's obvious what black lives matter means.
    I would suggest it means that it's better, more progressive to go down the route of treating all human beings with equal dignity and not dividing up along racial lines.

    I'm not saying I go around saying it - I don't. My point was that the debate has become so utterly preposterous that someone felt, admittedly in jest perhaps, that saying 'all lives matter' is comparable to trying to prevent the RNLI from saving drowning people.

    If anything demonstrates how toxic and divisive this is then it's that. A perfectly reasonable, rational phrase has become toxic because it doesn't fit the identity politics, racialised narrative that determines that skin colour MUST play a part.

    We need to step back from this way of thinking in my opinion. It's dangerous stuff.

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