The Two-faced, hypocritical Buffoon and his Party set for a Mauling at PMQ's Today..

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Does read rather like clickbait for guardian readers. A quick look at his twitter shows the author is very much a left-wing activist amongst other things that no doubt qualify him.

The UK is number 2 in Europe for vaccine booster doses. Only Iceland is ahead. 35% of our population has had a booster jab. Germany is on 24%. France on 20%. EU average is 18%. So quite clearly we are doing something right
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...BR~CAN~DEU~FRA

In terms of 7 day average for deaths, we are 31st (31ST!!!) in Europe. Again, pretty relevent data, that they choose to omit, and again, quite clearly we are doing something right
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...BR~CAN~DEU~FRA

The level of support given to people during the pandemic was also truly extraordinary and we will be paying for it for years - again, all ignored, bar a small element of it which is mentioned, which he chooses to criticise.

These are pretty important statistics, that obviously the guardian ignores because it doesn't suit the narrative. Put up an inflammatory headline for middle class lefties to masturbate over and share on twitter and job done.

It's just the Daily Mail of the left. Opinion pieces in the guardian have only a passing interest in balance or factual accuracy. It's like doing a review of Cardiff City's season and only showing highlights of the defeats.

And you've done here exactly what you accuse others of doing - ignoring and discrediting an article as it doesn't fit with your own political viewpoint. So much for "I read lots from all sides of the debates.....

[JamesWales]

And you've done here exactly what you accuse others of doing - ignoring and discrediting an article as it doesn't fit with your own political viewpoint. So much for "I read lots from all sides of the debates.....

I haven't ignored it. I've read it, and it's unbalanced and doesn't tell the full story. His sole purpose seems to be to criticise the UK government, but he doesn't present the evidence fairly. If he is interested in presenting a true picture, so that we can all make an informed decision he would include the kind of data that I have included. He doesn't, either because he isn't interested in balance or he knows the guardian wouldn't publish it and he wouldn't get paid.

And then he suggests a range of scenarios without presenting the negatives of those.

It's just a biased article lacking accuracy. Clickbait.

And I would be equally critical of any article that just said the only good thing about the Covid battle is the UK government. That would be an equally ridiculous stance and if I saw it, I would criticise it.

[jon1959]

Pretty hard hitting stuff from someone who has been involved with SAGE.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...t-link-omicron

Dear god lets all break the law, spread a virus and blame an inpet government , whatever. happened to personal responsibility, do the right thing without being told too , and caring for others when life's are at risk .

Dreadful weak argument and morally wrong .

Did you read Steve Reicher's piece?

Where in that did you find anything resembling what you have just claimed?

He is saying that despite the inept government the public have generally obeyed the law, taken personal and collective responsibility , done the right thing and cared for others. He has been saying that in opinion pieces throughout the pandemic. But the actions of this inept government has made it harder and given an excuse to the minority who do not want to take responsibility.

So what in that did you find to be 'dreadfully weak' and 'morally wrong'?

[JamesWales]

Did you read Steve Reicher's piece?

Where in that did you find anything resembling what you have just claimed?

He is saying that despite the inept government the public have generally obeyed the law, taken personal and collective responsibility , done the right thing and cared for others. He has been saying that in opinion pieces throughout the pandemic. But the actions of this inept government has made it harder and given an excuse to the minority who do not want to take responsibility.

So what in that did you find to be 'dreadfully weak' and 'morally wrong'?

He's just telling you what you want to read. The article is an opinion piece from someone who wants to get paid by an organisation that wants articles to get shared.

it amazes me that people can see this in newspapers like the Sun or Express but are so blind to it in papers like the guardian. Confirmation bias..

[goats]

Pretty hard hitting stuff from someone who has been involved with SAGE.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...t-link-omicron

To do nothing now? That’s the opposite of what they are trying to do isn’t it? In fact most people I know just think it’s another media frenzy….from Kent straight into delta and now the ominous one….there’s no respite and no ending it in sight is there?

[goats]

Does read rather like clickbait for guardian readers. A quick look at his twitter shows the author is very much a left-wing activist amongst other things that no doubt qualify him.

The UK is number 2 in Europe for vaccine booster doses. Only Iceland is ahead. 35% of our population has had a booster jab. Germany is on 24%. France on 20%. EU average is 18%. So quite clearly we are doing something right
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...BR~CAN~DEU~FRA

In terms of 7 day average for deaths, we are 31st (31ST!!!) in Europe. Again, pretty relevent data, that they choose to omit, and again, quite clearly we are doing something right
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...BR~CAN~DEU~FRA

The level of support given to people during the pandemic was also truly extraordinary and we will be paying for it for years - again, all ignored, bar a small element of it which is mentioned, which he chooses to criticise.

These are pretty important statistics, that obviously the guardian ignores because it doesn't suit the narrative. Put up an inflammatory headline for middle class lefties to masturbate over and share on twitter and job done.

It's just the Daily Mail of the left. Opinion pieces in the guardian have only a passing interest in balance or factual accuracy. It's like doing a review of Cardiff City's season and only showing highlights of the defeats.

A lefty hey? No wonder Bob posted it then….

[Croesy Blue]

Pathetic how everything people don’t agree with now has been reduced to “lefty” no wonder the political discourse and economy of this country are down the toilet.

Everything can be ruled by making people think it’s a culture war. It’s like America lite over here.

[JamesWales]

Pathetic how everything people don’t agree with now has been reduced to “lefty” no wonder the political discourse and economy of this country are down the toilet.

Everything can be ruled by making people think it’s a culture war. It’s like America lite over here.

Not everything has. The right are more than capable of writing inaccurate click bait articles too. 'Lefty' doesn't mean anyone on the left either, but it's a valid to call it out if you think their ideological stance is getting in the way of accuracy.

Also, you call people far far worse things than 'righty'.

But I do think it's fair to call these things out. There are some pretty damning stats that contradict the thrust of the argument that are clearly omitted as they would challenge the paper and authors editorial stance, and no doubt lead to less sharing on social media.

[Croesy Blue]

I’ve called you far worse because you are

The whole political landscape in this country from brexit to Covid is dominated at the moment from people whose support the government like a football team calling anyone who dates to criticise them a lefty no matter what they’re arguing.

It’s pathetic, shallow and stupid. And it’s no surprise some of ccmb’s resident “geniuses” partake in it.

[Eric Cartman]

Does read rather like clickbait for guardian readers. A quick look at his twitter shows the author is very much a left-wing activist amongst other things that no doubt qualify him.

The UK is number 2 in Europe for vaccine booster doses. Only Iceland is ahead. 35% of our population has had a booster jab. Germany is on 24%. France on 20%. EU average is 18%. So quite clearly we are doing something right
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...BR~CAN~DEU~FRA

In terms of 7 day average for deaths, we are 31st (31ST!!!) in Europe. Again, pretty relevent data, that they choose to omit, and again, quite clearly we are doing something right
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...BR~CAN~DEU~FRA

The level of support given to people during the pandemic was also truly extraordinary and we will be paying for it for years - again, all ignored, bar a small element of it which is mentioned, which he chooses to criticise.

These are pretty important statistics, that obviously the guardian ignores because it doesn't suit the narrative. Put up an inflammatory headline for middle class lefties to masturbate over and share on twitter and job done.

It's just the Daily Mail of the left. Opinion pieces in the guardian have only a passing interest in balance or factual accuracy. It's like doing a review of Cardiff City's season and only showing highlights of the defeats.

Opinion pieces are always going to have bias, what planet are you on? Just like how you only ever post covid statistics when they prove a pre-conceived point you want to make. You weren't comparing death figures during periods where we were amongst the worst, in fact you were probably pushing the then government line of 'You can't compare across different countries' because it suited.

[JamesWales]

I’ve called you far worse because you are

The whole political landscape in this country from brexit to Covid is dominated at the moment from people whose support the government like a football team calling anyone who dates to criticise them a lefty no matter what they’re arguing.

It’s pathetic, shallow and stupid. And it’s no surprise some of ccmb’s resident “geniuses” partake in it.

That's very nice of you to say so.

The reality is actually the opposite of what you point out - an opinion piece largely devoid of facts but packed to the rafters with anti-government rhetoric is shared.

And facts are used to try and restore some sense of reason and balance.

Thats the reality.

A balanced article would have used those facts to begin with. But then it would never have been published and never have been shared because people don't like facts if it doesn't suit their agenda.

I don't ignore the guardian. I read it online every day, it's just I have a strict balanced diet so I make sure I read the Daily Mail online in equal measure. Try it, within months you'll be grateful and more tolerant of different opinions too.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

That's very nice of you to say so.

The reality is actually the opposite of what you point out - an opinion piece largely devoid of facts but packed to the rafters with anti-government rhetoric is shared.

And facts are used to try and restore some sense of reason and balance.

Thats the reality.

A balanced article would have used those facts to begin with. But then it would never have been published and never have been shared because people don't like facts if it doesn't suit their agenda.

I don't ignore the guardian. I read it online every day, it's just I have a strict balanced diet so I make sure I read the Daily Mail online in equal measure. Try it, within months you'll be grateful and more tolerant of different opinions too.

Having different opinions doesn't make some opinions right. There are some political opinions that are just wrong, just because they are an opinion doesn't give them validation.

[JamesWales]

Having different opinions doesn't make some opinions right. There are some political opinions that are just wrong, just because they are an opinion doesn't give them validation.

In a limited number of cases, I agree entirely with you.

Some opinion pieces are just wrong. The article in question not the chief example of it, but edging that way.

[JamesWales]

Opinion pieces are always going to have bias, what planet are you on? Just like how you only ever post covid statistics when they prove a pre-conceived point you want to make. You weren't comparing death figures during periods where we were amongst the worst, in fact you were probably pushing the then government line of 'You can't compare across different countries' because it suited.

I probably did actually.

But then again, when we were doing the worst in europe, the media were happy to tell us.

When we are 31st in europe for deaths and 2nd best for booster jabs, they find some other miserable news to inflict upon us.

[Croesy Blue]

I wasn’t talking about the article, I was talking about in general. Every little criticism of the government is met by a “lefty” by the people who blindly follow a government they voted for.

This thread is a perfect example of it.

[the other bob wilson]

Does read rather like clickbait for guardian readers. A quick look at his twitter shows the author is very much a left-wing activist amongst other things that no doubt qualify him.

The UK is number 2 in Europe for vaccine booster doses. Only Iceland is ahead. 35% of our population has had a booster jab. Germany is on 24%. France on 20%. EU average is 18%. So quite clearly we are doing something right
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...BR~CAN~DEU~FRA

In terms of 7 day average for deaths, we are 31st (31ST!!!) in Europe. Again, pretty relevent data, that they choose to omit, and again, quite clearly we are doing something right
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...BR~CAN~DEU~FRA

The level of support given to people during the pandemic was also truly extraordinary and we will be paying for it for years - again, all ignored, bar a small element of it which is mentioned, which he chooses to criticise.

These are pretty important statistics, that obviously the guardian ignores because it doesn't suit the narrative. Put up an inflammatory headline for middle class lefties to masturbate over and share on twitter and job done.

It's just the Daily Mail of the left. Opinion pieces in the guardian have only a passing interest in balance or factual accuracy. It's like doing a review of Cardiff City's season and only showing highlights of the defeats.

So, you think the people of the UK have got their steer on what to do when the pandemic has hit hard from their Government then? Seems to me the population has to a large extent been ahead of the politicians. For example, back in March 2020, while Johnson was telling people to keep on shaking hands and he was going to rugby internationals, many were already preparing for, or even in, their own lockdown. I started my “lockdown” a week before the Government called one and I know plenty who did the same.

It was the same last autumn and December, the UK Government dithered and reacted late, while the Welsh Government, rightly, called their firebreak lockdown only to undo the good work, by reopening things too quickly. I make no claims as to any great intelligence, but you could see the spike which ruined Christmas in England and the devolved countries a mile off and, again, I think large parts of the population were in lockdown mode well before the politicians came around to that way of thinking.

It’s all very convenient when you can just write off an article you disagree with because it appears in a publication you don’t like isn’t it, but, in this case, the writer certainly has a point - what’s that saying? That’s right, lions lad by donkeys.

[JamesWales]

So, you think the people of the UK have got their steer on what to do when the pandemic has hit hard from their Government then? Seems to me the population has to a large extent been ahead of the politicians. For example, back in March 2020, while Johnson was telling people to keep on shaking hands and he was going to rugby internationals, many were already preparing for, or even in, their own lockdown. I started my “lockdown” a week before the Government called one and I know plenty who did the same.

It was the same last autumn and December, the UK Government dithered and reacted late, while the Welsh Government, rightly, called their firebreak lockdown only to undo the good work, by reopening things too quickly. I make no claims as to any great intelligence, but you could see the spike which ruined Christmas in England and the devolved countries a mile off and, again, I think large parts of the population were in lockdown mode well before the politicians came around to that way of thinking.

It’s all very convenient when you can just write off an article you disagree with because it appears in a publication you don’t like isn’t it, but, in this case, the writer certainly has a point - what’s that saying? That’s right, lions lad by donkeys.

Yes, the people have largely got their steer on what to do from the government. It's they who set the rules that councils, businesses, schools, the NHS, hospitality and the majority of the population follow. It's also they paying for vaccines and healthcare and furlough. So pretty clear they are steering the ship. Imperfectly so, but they are in charge.

I'm not interested in articles that laud the government, nor blame them for everything. The reality is far more nuanced.

Decisions were easier for Welsh Govt as they know the big economic decisions have to be made by Westminster, and they are happy with that. There's much less risk involved.

But I don't particularly praise or critique the Welsh Govt either. Or the Scottish, or the Italian, US, or New York State or any other government.

It's been a nightmare pandemic and very difficult to manage, with some things done well and some badly.

But, an article that totally ignores facts and presents a distorted image of reality - no, I don't like that. It's making a cheap political point and should be called out for such.

If there was a right-wing journalist in a right-wing newspaper claiming the Welsh Govt were the biggest problem and illustrated that with zero facts whatsoever, you would see it. Because it isn't, you decide to gloss over it, or in this instance, activity promote it. But that article, opinion piece as it may be, is borderline misinformation and there's a touch of the conspiracy theories about it

[Eric Cartman]

I probably did actually.

But then again, when we were doing the worst in europe, the media were happy to tell us.

When we are 31st in europe for deaths and 2nd best for booster jabs, they find some other miserable news to inflict upon us.

I can't say I am as keen as you are when it comes to reading newspapers but my recollection of this summer was that as a collective the media barely mentioned covid other than to say how well the vaccine rollout was going. During July, August and September UK case rates were completely out of line with other countries in Europe because of social distancing regulations being relaxed and the governing party's frankly childish stance on masks. It was barely mentioned that we were having 20k+ cases and 100+ deaths a day compared to a virtual flat line in other countries. I don't remember you talking about it much either, which is odd because you love comparing covid stats between countries. Hmmm

[the other bob wilson]

Yes, the people have largely got their steer on what to do from the government. It's they who set the rules that councils, businesses, schools, the NHS, hospitality and the majority of the population follow. It's also they paying for vaccines and healthcare and furlough. So pretty clear they are steering the ship. Imperfectly so, but they are in charge.

I'm not interested in articles that laud the government, nor blame them for everything. The reality is far more nuanced.

Decisions were easier for Welsh Govt as they know the big economic decisions have to be made by Westminster, and they are happy with that. There's much less risk involved.

But I don't particularly praise or critique the Welsh Govt either. Or the Scottish, or the Italian, US, or New York State or any other government.

It's been a nightmare pandemic and very difficult to manage, with some things done well and some badly.

But, an article that totally ignores facts and presents a distorted image of reality - no, I don't like that. It's making a cheap political point and should be called out for such.

If there was a right-wing journalist in a right-wing newspaper claiming the Welsh Govt were the biggest problem and illustrated that with zero facts whatsoever, you would see it. Because it isn't, you decide to gloss over it, or in this instance, activity promote it. But that article, opinion piece as it may be, is borderline misinformation and there's a touch of the conspiracy theories about it

You’re just making yourself look absurd now. Deliberately or not, you’re completely missing the point of that article because you have a problem with the messenger.

[the other bob wilson]

I can't say I am as keen as you are when it comes to reading newspapers but my recollection of this summer was that as a collective the media barely mentioned covid other than to say how well the vaccine rollout was going. During July, August and September UK case rates were completely out of line with other countries in Europe because of social distancing regulations being relaxed and the governing party's frankly childish stance on masks. It was barely mentioned that we were having 20k+ cases and 100+ deaths a day compared to a virtual flat line in other countries. I don't remember you talking about it much either, which is odd because you love comparing covid stats between countries. Hmmm

[JamesWales]

I can't say I am as keen as you are when it comes to reading newspapers but my recollection of this summer was that as a collective the media barely mentioned covid other than to say how well the vaccine rollout was going. During July, August and September UK case rates were completely out of line with other countries in Europe because of social distancing regulations being relaxed and the governing party's frankly childish stance on masks. It was barely mentioned that we were having 20k+ cases and 100+ deaths a day compared to a virtual flat line in other countries. I don't remember you talking about it much either, which is odd because you love comparing covid stats between countries. Hmmm

Yes, the UK's case rates rose, as did the death rate moderately. We did relax to a greater extent than some countries, primarily due to vaccines, also perhaps a more libertarian minded government. I think you are right, there was far less reporting on Covid at this time, primarily because the second wave had ended and cases were vastly reduced.

Nonetheless, in the months you mention, we were 16th in Europe for deaths per capita. A kind of figure I would suggest that would result in relatively calm reporting
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...BR~CAN~DEU~FRA

[Citizen's Nephew]

Yes, the people have largely got their steer on what to do from the government. It's they who set the rules that councils, businesses, schools, the NHS, hospitality and the majority of the population follow.

I'm not interested in articles that laud the government, nor blame them for everything. The reality is far more nuanced.

Decisions were easier for Welsh Govt as they know the big economic decisions have to be made by Westminster, and they are happy with that. There's much less risk involved.

But I don't particularly praise or critique the Welsh Govt either. Or the Scottish, or the Italian, US, or New York State or any other government.

It's been a nightmare pandemic and very difficult to manage, with some things done well and some badly.

But, an article that totally ignores facts and presents a distorted image of reality - no, I don't like that. It's making a cheap political point and should be called out for such.

If there was a right-wing journalist in a right-wing newspaper claiming the Welsh Govt were the biggest problem and illustrated that with zero facts whatsoever, you would see it. Because it isn't, you decide to gloss over it, or in this instance, activity promote it. But that article, opinion piece as it may be is borderline misinformation.

Your absurd antidote to this is to read another article from a different publication i.e. The Daily Mail which is ideological, ignores facts, lies, and presents a distorted image all the name of tolerance and balance. You're actually no genius Mr J but merely a Trojan Horse of a debater. You aren't an analytical thinker nor are you balanced in any way. Anyone who uses the term lefty has just exposed their bias in neon letters.

I'm off to read Kafka's Metamorphosis in equal measure along with Mein Kampf so I ensure there's a sense of balance between two works of fiction.

[Croesy Blue]

Dominic Raab is a proper horrible **** isn’t he?

He’s claiming the overhaul of human rights law will counter “political correctness”

Which of these laws are our resident torystans think are overtly politically correct?

Article 2: Right to life

Article 3: Freedom from torture and inhuman or degrading treatment

Article 4: Freedom from slavery and forced labour

Article 5: Right to liberty and security

Article 6: Right to a fair trial

Article 7: No punishment without law

Article 8: Respect for your private and family life, home and correspondence

Article 9: Freedom of thought, belief and religion

Article 10: Freedom of expression

Article 11: Freedom of assembly and association

Article 12: Right to marry and start a family

Article 14: Protection from discrimination in respect of these rights and freedoms

Protocol 1, Article 1: Right to peaceful enjoyment of your property

Protocol 1, Article 2: Right to education

Protocol 1, Article 3: Right to participate in free elections

Protocol 13, Article 1: Abolition of the death penalty

Mad that our current government feels the right to be a **** is more valuable than our right to protest.

[ninian opinian]

Yes, the UK's case rates rose, as did the death rate moderately. We did relax to a greater extent than some countries, primarily due to vaccines, also perhaps a more libertarian minded government. I think you are right, there was far less reporting on Covid at this time, primarily because the second wave had ended and cases were vastly reduced.

Nonetheless, in the months you mention, we were 16th in Europe for deaths per capita. A kind of figure I would suggest that would result in relatively calm reporting
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...BR~CAN~DEU~FRA

Libertarian minded government? Don’t make me laugh. Is this the same libertarian government who has just brought out laws to stop its people demonstrating if they “make too much noise”. Is this the same libertarian government who want you to show voter ID at the ballet box. And don’t start me on the libertarian government who want to abolish The Human Rights Act.

[JamesWales]

Your absurd antidote to this is to read another article from a different publication i.e. The Daily Mail which is ideological, ignores facts, lies, and presents a distorted image all the name of tolerance and balance. You're actually no genius Mr J but merely a Trojan Horse of a debater. You aren't an analytical thinker nor are you balanced in any way. Anyone who uses the term lefty has just exposed their bias in neon letters.

I'm off to read Kafka's Metamorphosis in equal measure along with Mein Kampf so I ensure there's a sense of balance between two works of fiction.

Ah yes, everything you like is good and honourable.

Anything anyone else likes is bad.

Remember, I am advocating reading newspapers that cross the political divide and illustrating articles with facts.

If you have a problem with that, then with respect you are probably part of the problem I allude to.