The Two-faced, hypocritical Buffoon and his Party set for a Mauling at PMQ's Today..

[Croesy Blue]

Isn’t it likely that the mines closing down had to happened and someone who worked down one wanted their kids not to have to do the same. But also at the same time we can say they were closed down too fast to point score over the unions, and the close down wasn’t managed leading to excess poverty and lack of opportunities in the valleys?

I’m not sure the anecdotal evidence of one man working down big pit is the silver bullet to this and it’s more nuanced than both sides are letting.

[ninian opinian]

Other than Blairs years I can only remember Tory governments for the last 40 years.
Boris wasn't that good surely?

Unfortunately we have a first past the post voting system in this country. More people in the UK vote for other parties than the cons yet they are in power. The cons are also in the process of carving up the voting system even more to benefit them.

In 3 of the last 5 general elections, at least 50% of votes went to losing candidates. This is because MPs can be elected with very small shares of the vote when there are more than two candidates standing in a constituency. In constituencies like South Down, the MP was elected with less than 1 in 3 votes, meaning that more than 2 out of every 3 voters got an MP they didn't vote for.

[goats]

Bore off.
You have taken one or two pieces of information and use them to try and get your cronies on board...
Whilst I can understand your need to do .
I am not afraid to back up or explain any decisions I have made .
That said I don't expect to have the you or anyone else try to score childish points on an almost daily basis .

I admire Nugent to a degree , he undoubtedly , like you is on a wind up .
But he comes on here and swims against the mainly leftie voices.
There must be one or two other tories on this board? Have you bullied them away from having a voice?
The tories get voted in time after time by the majority of the population...Only once with my vote .

Dont bother wasting your time on him, he clearly doesn’t read to well as he’s not getting the message from us.
I’m surprised he can follow the bluebirds, playing in blue, a Tory colour! Think he was one of the red lovers back in the day and is a secret Liverpool fan…..

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Bore off.
You have taken one or two pieces of information and use them to try and get your cronies on board...
Whilst I can understand your need to do .
I am not afraid to back up or explain any decisions I have made .
That said I don't expect to have the you or anyone else try to score childish points on an almost daily basis .

I admire Nugent to a degree , he undoubtedly , like you is on a wind up .
But he comes on here and swims against the mainly leftie voices.
There must be one or two other tories on this board? Have you bullied them away from having a voice?
The tories get voted in time after time by the majority of the population...Only once with my vote .

Nugent , admired

I have to check that

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

The ex miner thought "ah its Blue Matt that well known tory from Mike Morris's message board.

I'll just spin him a yarn about how I didn't really mind the pit closures"

Indeed , it's almost like it happened like that

Incredible really

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Why the shock about an ex miner saying that he was glad the mines had closed? There are many up here in Treorchy and district who worked down the mines and lots of them had colleagues who died as a consequence, so there had to be a degree of relief when they closed. There was also a metal casting factory at the bottom of the road I live on which employed hundreds I believe, not too far away, there was a big clothes manufacturing business which was the biggest employer after the coal industry in the area. Older locals also tell me about all sorts of retail, leisure and business premises now long gone.

It’s not exactly a ghost town up here these days, every day there’s a trickle of people walking through the Green area.behind my house walking to the double glazing manufacturing and delivery plant half a mile away and there are industrial estates with small businesses running alongside the railway in villages up here, but so much employment was lost when the mines closed and while the locals must have recognised that as a good thing at the time in terms of their health and the environment, there has to be sadness that so little came along in its place.

I don’t kid myself either that if there was still stacks of coal under the ground around here, then the place where I live would look completely different - you’d like to think there be better health and safety requirements in place, but, such is the dominance of the profit margin in the modern world, that there’d be working mines everywhere.

I am sure there are plenty of ex miners who are relieved that times have moved on

But in this case the defence of the closure of pits by this miner reads straight out of the Conservative Party manual rigorously defended by BM

So I don't believe it

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Dont bother wasting your time on him, he clearly doesn’t read to well as he’s not getting the message from us.
I’m surprised he can follow the bluebirds, playing in blue, a Tory colour! Think he was one of the red lovers back in the day and is a secret Liverpool fan…..

You , Jimmy and Nugent

It's a winning ticket

[Croesy Blue]

There’s no way Nugent knows how to swim

[Rjk]

Isn’t it likely that the mines closing down had to happened and someone who worked down one wanted their kids not to have to do the same. But also at the same time we can say they were closed down too fast to point score over the unions, and the close down wasn’t managed leading to excess poverty and lack of opportunities in the valleys?

I’m not sure the anecdotal evidence of one man working down big pit is the silver bullet to this and it’s more nuanced than both sides are letting.

yes, absolutely this.
it wasn't just that the industry was wound down, it was that nothing was put in its place.
former mining areas in many countries have often been economically depressed, but some countries managed that transition much better than others.
the Tory government at the time were at the extreme end of the prevailant economic ideology of neoliberalism.

the 'plans' for the valleys and other areas was basically that if the jobs were no longer there then people would leave and move to places like London where there were jobs. it was a big surprise to them that it didn't happen.
It is on record that they came very close to applying this policy to the city of Liverpool as well.

on paper it makes sense. no jobs in the valleys, employees needed in London to sustain the boom, just let nature take its course. anyone who has spent any time in the valleys would know that that wouldn't happen.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

The egg thrown at Maggie when she came to Porthcawl was a quality shot 👌

[Croesy Blue]

yes, absolutely this.
it wasn't just that the industry was wound down, it was that nothing was put in its place.
former mining areas in many countries have often been economically depressed, but some countries managed that transition much better than others.
the Tory government at the time were at the extreme end of the prevailant economic ideology of neoliberalism.

the 'plans' for the valleys and other areas was basically that if the jobs were no longer there then people would leave and move to places like London where there were jobs. it was a big surprise to them that it didn't happen.
It is on record that they came very close to applying this policy to the city of Liverpool as well.

on paper it makes sense. no jobs in the valleys, employees needed in London to sustain the boom, just let nature take its course. anyone who has spent any time in the valleys would know that that wouldn't happen.

And that it was wound down quicker than needed out of spite and point scoring.

This is going to sound arrogant but If we’ve reached the point where people are arguing Maggie is good because the mines were dangerous and people didn’t want to work down them then it shows either the argument hasn’t been understood or people are being wilfully ignorant.

But I suppose this is the same thread where the argument of the higher tax threshold meant voting Tory was better for the working class so it shouldn’t be a surprise.

[the other bob wilson]

NHS’ vaccine on line booking service unable to cope with demand, vaccine centres where it was said you could just turn up for your jab turning away people who queued up there this morning and they’ve run out of lateral flow tests - based on previous form, was Johnson making up policy on the hoof last night in an effort to divert attention away from parties/gatherings etc?

[Dorcus]

NHS’ vaccine on line booking service unable to cope with demand, vaccine centres where it was said you could just turn up for your jab turning away people who queued up there this morning and they’ve run out of lateral flow tests - based on previous form, was Johnson making up policy on the hoof last night in an effort to divert attention away from parties/gatherings etc?

And still Mark Drakeford gets it in the neck; how fortunate I live in Wales!

[goats]

NHS’ vaccine on line booking service unable to cope with demand, vaccine centres where it was said you could just turn up for your jab turning away people who queued up there this morning and they’ve run out of lateral flow tests - based on previous form, was Johnson making up policy on the hoof last night in an effort to divert attention away from parties/gatherings etc?

Yes massive deflection on going, and I’m a Tory apparently

[goats]

And still Mark Drakeford gets it in the neck; how fortunate I live in Wales!

Coz there’s no people…..

[goats]

You , Jimmy and Nugent

It's a winning ticket

Millions of us tories….

[JamesWales]

NHS’ vaccine on line booking service unable to cope with demand, vaccine centres where it was said you could just turn up for your jab turning away people who queued up there this morning and they’ve run out of lateral flow tests - based on previous form, was Johnson making up policy on the hoof last night in an effort to divert attention away from parties/gatherings etc?

This is a silly post. Websites do crash under extreme demand, queues do form and there is not an infinite supply of vaccines in every centre.

Why would anyone have any interest in spreading negativity when we are trying to get as many people vaccinated as possible?

[JamesWales]

And still Mark Drakeford gets it in the neck; how fortunate I live in Wales!

So the fact a small number of people can't access the walk in services in England is somehow made better by just not offering them to anybody whatsoever?!

Not sure about your logic there..

[the other bob wilson]

This is a silly post. Websites do crash under extreme demand, queues do form and there is not an infinite supply of vaccines in every centre.

Why would anyone have any interest in spreading negativity when we are trying to get as many people vaccinated as possible?

well that’s put me straight then - how pompous can you get .

Isn’t the point that if the intention is to get 1 million people jabbed or invited to be jabbed a day, things like this should not be happening and, as far as possible, plans put in place beforehand to ensure that they do not? My response is a commentary on where the Prime Minister’s reputation is at now. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that to assume Johnson, very unusually for him, is desperate to move the conversation on to something else rather than him following a disastrous couple of weeks. That’s understandable because he and his party are suffering because of him, but it is so typically Johnsonian to make grandiose announcements and set very taxing targets about something and then leave someone else to sort out how this will be done exactly.

[JamesWales]

well that’s put me straight then - how pompous can you get .

Isn’t the point that if the intention is to get 1 million people jabbed or invited to be jabbed a day, things like this should not be happening and, as far as possible, plans put in place beforehand to ensure that they do not? My response is a commentary on where the Prime Minister’s reputation is at now. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that to assume Johnson, very unusually for him, is desperate to move the conversation on to something else following a disastrous couple of weeks. That’s understandable because he and his party are suffering because of him, but it is so typically Johnsonian to make grandiose announcements and set very taxing targets about something and then leave someone else to sort out how this will be done exactly.

Maybe because when you are trying to do something like vaccinate a million people a day that sometimes teething problems occur.

Jesus, you must moan at the council every time there is a traffic jam.

You're complaint might be valid after a week or so, but to write that literally on the first morning just smacks of someone who wants it to fail tbh.

[lardy]

Maybe because when you are trying to do something like vaccinate a million people a day that sometimes teething problems occur.

Jesus, you must moan at the council every time there is a traffic jam.

You're complaint might be valid after a week or so, but to write that literally on the first morning just smacks of someone who wants it to fail tbh.

GPs have been saying it, also on the first morning.

[the other bob wilson]

Maybe because when you are trying to do something like vaccinate a million people a day that sometimes teething problems occur.

Jesus, you must moan at the council every time there is a traffic jam.

You're complaint might be valid after a week or so, but to write that literally on the first morning just smacks of someone who wants it to fail tbh.

I don’t like your completely groundless accusation that I want frightened people not to be able to get their jabs - absolutely nothing I said suggests that and you’re just trying to deflect the conversation on to my attitude.

Whether you like it or not, the Prime Minister has become an issue when it comes to how to deal with Covid. Why do you think he would not answer questions from the press at his address to the nation? The answer has to be that, correctly, he figured that he’d be asked about Christmas parties/gatherings more than Covid.

[JamesWales]

I don’t like your completely groundless accusation that I want frightened people not to be able to get their jabs - absolutely nothing I said suggests that and you’re just trying to deflect the conversation on to my attitude.

Whether you like it or not, the Prime Minister has become an issue when it comes to how to deal with Covid. Why do you think he would not answer questions from the press at his address to the nation? The answer has to be that, correctly, he figured that he’d be asked about Christmas parties/gatherings more than Covid.

I get your point, but you were almost revelling in a hiccup on day one of what is a logistically extremely challenging and very important project. Sometimes someones dislike of a political party just shines through and disrupts their logic. As I said, your issue on this would be valid after a few days, not literally after a few hours.

It's incredibly rare for complex projects to go absolutely perfectly from minute one. We do already have double the percentage of the population booster-jabbed than the EU average for example, so some kind of acknowledgement of an ability to deliver and give confidence would help.

And it seems you may have been wrong too: Below from a govt spokesperson. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...latest-updates

"There is no shortage of lateral flow tests. We have more than sufficient supply. What we are seeing is, because of the heightened demand today, those available to be posted out today, those slots have been filled already.

We are working with the postal service and others to further increase slots.

But it is important for people to understand if they do encounter trouble, they can go to their local pharmacy. The slots refresh daily."

[the other bob wilson]

I get your point, but you were almost revelling in a hiccup on day one of what is a logistically extremely challenging and very important project. Sometimes someones dislike of a political party just shines through and disrupts their logic. As I said, your issue on this would be valid after a few days, not literally after a few hours.

It's incredibly rare for complex projects to go absolutely perfectly from minute one. We do already have double the percentage of the population booster-jabbed than the EU average for example, so some kind of acknowledgement of an ability to deliver and give confidence would help.

And it seems you may have been wrong too: Below from a govt spokesperson. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...latest-updates

"There is no shortage of lateral flow tests. We have more than sufficient supply. What we are seeing is, because of the heightened demand today, those available to be posted out today, those slots have been filled already.

We are working with the postal service and others to further increase slots.

But it is important for people to understand if they do encounter trouble, they can go to their local pharmacy. The slots refresh daily."

I’m being entirely logical in my approach - I’ll never ever be a Conservative voter, but I’m fairly sure that, say, John Major and Theresa May would not have got themselves into the mess Johnson has whereby so many people just have no faith or trust in him when it comes to the pandemic. That is very serious for the country and, on reflection, it might have been a better idea to have scientists who could have been questioned afterwards, deliver last night’s news.

Some people are unable to order lateral flow tests today, so they have run out of them and, unless there’s a limit on how many you can take from a pharmacy, they’ll run out of them as well soon.

[delmbox]

I get your point, but you were almost revelling in a hiccup on day one of what is a logistically extremely challenging and very important project. Sometimes someones dislike of a political party just shines through and disrupts their logic. As I said, your issue on this would be valid after a few days, not literally after a few hours.

It's incredibly rare for complex projects to go absolutely perfectly from minute one. We do already have double the percentage of the population booster-jabbed than the EU average for example, so some kind of acknowledgement of an ability to deliver and give confidence would help.

And it seems you may have been wrong too: Below from a govt spokesperson. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...latest-updates

"There is no shortage of lateral flow tests. We have more than sufficient supply. What we are seeing is, because of the heightened demand today, those available to be posted out today, those slots have been filled already.

We are working with the postal service and others to further increase slots.

But it is important for people to understand if they do encounter trouble, they can go to their local pharmacy. The slots refresh daily."

Oh well if a Government Spokesperson said it then I'm sold

Incidentally I didn't read it as Bob revelling in a hiccup, more asking whether Johnson announced a policy before the infrastructure was in place to support it, as a way of deflecting from his personal issues. I'm telling you that because I know you respect my opinion.