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You don’t like it because it’s a good joke at your expense. You’re more than allowed to boycott him and “cancel” him if it hurts your feelings.Originally Posted by JamesWales
What is the opposite of this joke that’s getting people cancelled then? Who has been chastised for far worse? Being chastised isn’t being cancelled is it?
I’m going to see Stewart Lee next month, cannot wait 👌
Unless it impacts you.
This all stemmed from a trans-gender debate that women didn't feel safe in certain situations with someone that biologically was born a man, or however you interpret it. That's a feeling I can't comprehend so I can't say if it's fair.
I think the conversation is allowed to be had without being called out straight away.
But agree - In the main, just keep your thoughts to yourself
I agree on all counts there.
In response to WJ
No one is saying you can’t have the debate though the problem is the debate, to me at least, stinks of the debate about gay people in the 90s and focusses on rape and peadophilia which isn’t actually happening.
In reality people share bathrooms and changing rooms no problem but again it’s blown out of proportion in the press and celebrities on Twitter with nothing better to do get caught in a rabbit hole they can’t get out of without making themselves look like twats.
Mate, that seriously isn't a good joke. He's a funny man, but that is the epitome of 'punching down'. So you clearly dont have an issue with jokes that punch down despite what you said. As usual, the principle here is political. If its the right kind of punching down or offence then it's fine; basically based on your beliefs.
The last thing I would do is call for him to be cancelled. Thats the second point I'm making. He's said something really pretty offensive (and definitely quite snobby) and thats fine. I think he's a knob for it but I defend his right to do it. Others don't, they try to get them taken off bills etc.
That's the root of what we are talking about here. The inconsistency. If those that preach tolerance could show a bit more of it, then that would be a great thing.
The new wave of British comedy brought humour that wasn't about some Indian bloke down the corner shop , banana boats etc
It's pretty inclusive stuff
It just tends to show up racists , Tories and little englanders
So it's all good
I didn’t say I had a problem with jokes punching down, I said they had to be good and we’re harder to write.
As always you’ve not read my posts you’ve just put together a response you think fits something in your head.
The problem with comedy like this is taking it out of context of the wider show, Stewart Lee is playing a character the same as almost every stand up comedian. He’s even said he wish he’d given his stand up persona a separate name to stop the confusion. The good thing is he does have very similar political views to this character but wouldn’t express them this way in real life.
The same way al Murray’s pub landlord is a character but people are often too thick to see that he’s taking the piss out of people like that.
You are doing the very thing you are making up that cancel culture is. It’s actually very ironic.
Comedy is inclusive because it takes the piss out of everyone without being actually offensive.
Almost every comedian takes the piss out of lefties but the people who are complaining in this thread see nothing out of the 2 minutes clips the dailymail post out of context to rile up the people stupid enough to watch it.
It’s why the Dave Chapelle special went ahead still because seeing something out of context of the show doesn’t work.
Just to highlight how stupid this is Stewart Lee’s whole comedy persona is basically a smug prick. How the **** can you say you like his comedy if you don’t even grasp that?
If anything sums up cancel culture and outrage it’s James’s reaction here.Lee's delivery utilises various onstage personae, frequently alternating between that of an outspoken liberal hero and that of a depressed failure and champagne socialist. In an ironic manner, he often criticises the audience for not being intelligent enough to understand his jokes, saying they would prefer more simplistic material,
A day ago you were arguing that cancel culture doesn't exist, now it exists, but bizarrely is manifested in me highlighting the hypocrisy of it whilst pointing to a plainly offensive and very bigoted joke and simultaneously arguing that in no way should he be cancelled for it!
I do appreciate that like any artist they have a certain on stage persona and I do like Stewart Lee. We both know it isn't comparable to the Pub Landlord mind. I just think its worth you considering that other people absorb that kind of thing (basically being called c**ts by a very privileged and wealthy guy to a room of people laughing) and they manage to not call for him to be cancelled or prevented from working.
If we can apply the same principle across the board then the conversations about cancel culture will all disappear. Basically, within the confines of the law; live and let live
Cancel culture doesn't exist but you whinging about a comedian's routine because you don't realise he's in character is the exact sort of stuff that causes people to think cancel culture exists. The same principle is applied across the board, how many actual comedians have been stopped touring because of a joke they've told?
Listen to any Steward lee interview and he equates himself to the pub landlord and wishes he'd given himself a different stage name so dopes like you would stop pearl clutching.
If I'm honest I don't think you've watched very much stand up comedy or comedy on tv in recent years if you think cancel culture exists for comedians.
Be honest now James are you playing a character on here? because it's too funny otherwise. Youre like this ffs:
I think comedians should be able to joke about whatever they wants blacks, gays, jews all up for grabs or it's PC gone mad!!!!
B-b-b-but pwease don't make fun of b-b-b-brexit
It's a trade-off. Celebs and famous people do the media rounds answering the same or silly questions through gritted teeth in order to sell their wares. They don't usually do it for the appearance fee, methinks.
I can see that. I'm not sure if its ignorance or purposeful.
They deserved to be punished. But it shows that cancel culture exists, which is my point.
They took it off-air because of what happened, not because people stopped watching.
I'm not that bothered as I agree they deserve to have repercussions for their actions.
veering off slightly, look at what happened when "Life Of Brian" was released.
"It's blasphemous!" - shouted peole who hadn't actually seen it.
"People might be offended" - said people who hadn't asked if any of 'those people' actually WAS offended
veering back towards the main thread - if you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at?
This isn’t what people mean by cancel culture. They mean people being unfairly cancelled for just saying something.
Getting sacked for sexually harassing and raping people isn’t cancel culture ffs it’s just being sacked
Oh and now we are back to cancel culture not existing! 🤣
I think to be honest it's back to my previous point; you don't think it exists because you don't experience it. But others do and others in the industry itself say it is an issue.
Maybe you should listen to them a bit. It's possible you aren't always right.
The idea that someone can wank unsolicited in front of women and when they get censured for it that comes under the umbrella "cancel culture" is absolutely ludicrous. Where's the line then? Does Jimmy Saville come under cancel culture? Absolutely ridiculous statement
You can't 'sack' a comedian.This isn’t what people mean by cancel culture. They mean people being unfairly cancelled for just saying something.
Getting sacked for sexually harassing and raping people isn’t cancel culture ffs it’s just being sacked
Agreed.
Like I said I'm not condoning any actions all I am saying that there IS a line and people are trying to manipulate the line.
My examples are on the extreme side but i'm just giving examples.
Louis CK is still touring. People are still buying his tickets. There would be some that would say that he should never be allowed to tour again. Therefore there is cancel culture whether it's fair or not.
Yet we haven’t seen one decent example posted to this thread of it actually happening.
Cancel culture doesn’t exist it’s just Twitter bollocks being blown out of proportion as usual.
Why not they work on tv shows and stuff don’t they? I think you’re being needlessly pedantic now.
Yes there have been. And I've explained how the term (which I have said is overblown imo) can mean someone being completely cancelled (very rare) but more often may mean a small number of events cancelled (more common) but can also mean someone having to amend their act for fear of offending the easily offended and intolerant minority (more common still though unknown how prevalent.
I don't know why you pretend there aren't people out there who don't try to get events cancelled because they don't like someone's perfectly legal views.
It clearly happens, its prevelence may be questioned but it happens an do it's bellends who do it and if you tolerate it it may be 'your comedy' that is next.
But this idea of an all prevailing wave of cancel culture that kills careers is a complete fallacy. The only person I can think of in recent memory who's career has actually been killed is Harvey Weinstein, and that's with good, criminal, reason.
The others mentioned:
JK Rowiing - Her books sold were up 10.9% last year
Louis CK - Still touring
Roy Chubby Brown - Still touring
Jim Davidson - Still touring
John Cleese - Got a documentary out
"Cancel Culture" is just people telling you that they think you're an arsehole, usually when you've behaved like one. Students protesting against certain performers has always happened, I remember Dapper Laughs getting a tour cancelled about 10 years ago for saying some dodgy stuff about rape, no one complained about cancel culture then because certain elements of the media hadn't decided they wanted to construct a moral panic about it yet. Reminds me of that period in the 90's when the media decided that road rage was everywhere, and you felt like you couldn't get into a car without being in danger of someone going for you. Road rage hasn't gone away since then, it just never existed in the way they made it seem.
Twitter etc makes it seem like there's a huge groundswell of opinion and someone's getting "cancelled" but the reality is it's just a few thousand people making a noise for a short period of time, same as most protests. Truth is most of the people who talk about being cancelled just aren't relevant anymore, there's plenty of comedians doing edgy stuff but it works because it's funny.
As mentioned before, see South Park and It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia for two prime, modern examples of shows that say the most awful stuff but are loved and keep getting made.
Very succinct post Delm
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