The stark reality facing Wales' Jewish community

[Dorcus]

I'm currently engaged in learning how to read the Hebrew Bible in an attempt to discover the earliest reasoning behind the Scriptures.

I'm at a very early stage indeed and very much a novice but instantly I have become fascinated by the different interpretation of some passages in the Koine Greek translation from the original Aramaic.

As I'm still at an early stage perhaps I could start with Genesis. The original Hebrew word is bereshiyt meaning summit but was translated into beginning by the Greeks. This might sound trivial to the casual observer but as one particular Hebrew Bible scholar has pointed out that because the contemporary Aramaic speakers at that time had an entirely different notion of space and time to ourselves the translation as "beginning' might prove problematic. This particular scholar preferred the translation as "summit" and considers it to denote transcendence rather than first cause.

I only mention this because it's becoming increasingly clear to me how difficult it is to rely upon the word by word accuracy of a series of documents which have been translated into Latin, then English and by now into just about every other language on Earth.

Is there no room for questioning the literal meaning of an admittedly great work which has been subjected to so much human interpretation?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I'm currently engaged in learning how to read the Hebrew Bible in an attempt to discover the earliest reasoning behind the Scriptures.

I'm at a very early stage indeed and very much a novice but instantly I have become fascinated by the different interpretation of some passages in the Koine Greek translation from the original Aramaic.

As I'm still at an early stage perhaps I could start with Genesis. The original Hebrew word is bereshiyt meaning summit but was translated into beginning by the Greeks. This might sound trivial to the casual observer but as one particular Hebrew Bible scholar has pointed out that because the contemporary Aramaic speakers at that time had an entirely different notion of space and time to ourselves the translation as "beginning' might prove problematic. This particular scholar preferred the translation as "summit" and considers it to denote transcendence rather than first cause.

I only mention this because it's becoming increasingly clear to me how difficult it is to rely upon the word by word accuracy of a series of documents which have been translated into Latin, then English and by now into just about every other language on Earth.

Is there no room for questioning the literal meaning of an admittedly great work which has been subjected to so much human interpretation?

Indeed. Holy books were written by man (or men, to be more precise) collated, compiled, edited and translated by man - and based on little evidence that can be verified and is often contradictory. (Very few believers really look beyond the current version of their holy books).
In many cases, the stories and parables were lifted from previous religions and folklore. Religions are a fascinating subject but the vast majority of aderents to any particular flavour would have believed in another deity or deities had they been born in a different culture/social setting/other point in the history of mankind (and let's not forget that Christianity/Abrahamism is a very recent phenomenon considering that Homo Sapiens have supposedly been around for 300,000 years.
The world's major religions came about when people were mainly illiterate and had very little understanding of science - and yet some people living in an age when we know about atoms, the universe, bacteria, gravity and advanced medical science seem to think that unverified folklore has all the answers. It's a hell of a tribute to childhood indoctrination.

[truthpaste]

Indeed. Holy books were written by man (or men, to be more precise) collated, compiled, edited and translated by man - and based on little evidence that can be verified and is often contradictory. (Very few believers really look beyond the current version of their holy books).
In many cases, the stories and parables were lifted from previous religions and folklore. Religions are a fascinating subject but the vast majority of aderents to any particular flavour would have believed in another deity or deities had they been born in a different culture/social setting/other point in the history of mankind (and let's not forget that Christianity/Abrahamism is a very recent phenomenon considering that Homo Sapiens have supposedly been around for 300,000 years.
The world's major religions came about when people were mainly illiterate and had very little understanding of science - and yet some people living in an age when we know about atoms, the universe, bacteria, gravity and advanced medical science seem to think that unverified folklore has all the answers. It's a hell of a tribute to childhood indoctrination.

The last line of your tired collection of untruths reveals the actual origin of your world view.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

The last line of your tired collection of untruths reveals the actual origin of your world view.

It's all true. A snake told me.

[truthpaste]

It's all true. A snake told me.

Like we needed verification, his fingerprint is unmistakeable.

[truthpaste]

Endless room, but no actual success; and all efforts are welcomed.

Sir Isaac Newton was a man known for his Christian faith. Few people realise that he spent more time studying hidden mathematical structures in the Hebrew and Greek texts than his scientific studies. We read, "He spent a great portion of his time studying the Bible with a special interest in prophecy. Following are some of his quotations:-

On the Bible:
"I have a fundamental belief in the Bible as the Word of God, written by men who were inspired. I study the Bible daily."

On atheism:
"Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system. I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance."

As for testing the claim that the Bible is inspired by God I suggest you study "Hepatic structure in the Bible" << here is an intro.

[life on mars]

What 'plan' is that?

Are we back to the literal 'truth' of the Old Testament again?

And are you now tying your cart to the Truthpaste world view - all in for the 'title deeds given by GOD', ethnic cleansing and apartheid?

The plan is to move away from hatred and persecution which you are going to tell us doesn't exist in right wing and left wing politics.

You can smell the antisemitism .

[Dorcus]

It's all true. A snake told me.

Was that Snake Plissken?

[truthpaste]

I'm currently engaged in learning how to read the Hebrew Bible in an attempt to discover the earliest reasoning behind the Scriptures.

1. You may find the Blue Letter Bible website helpful in exploring Hebrew: plus there is an APP for it on Android & Apple.
2. The above reply re the "Hepatic structure of Scripture" was mainly for your attention*
3. *This same structure can also be observed from Genesis and throughout the Bible and can be seen to demonstrate (to anyone who cares to look) that the original Hebrew text is completely unaltered from the original scrolls.

[jon1959]

The plan is to move away from hatred and persecution which you are going to tell us doesn't exist in right wing and left wing politics.

You can smell the antisemitism .

I can smell something - the smell of your usual bullshit.

You said 'As for the Jewish people, yes they are mainly returning back to their Land as has always been the plan..'

I asked you 'what plan' and you came back with deflection and gibberish.

Many Jewish people have migrated to Israel, with the largest number in recent decades from the USA. But it is not 'their Land'. Much of it is stolen from ethnically cleansed Palestinian arabs (Muslim, Christian and of other or no faith) in defiance of international law. And the only 'plan' that has been put forward to underpin that is the one you get from Truthpaste - where he reckons the ink on the Old Testament isn't dry yet. Evangelical Christians like Truthpaste champion that zionist cause (and he has congratulated the Israeli government in previous threads for restraint in their racist campaign to clear arabs from 'their land'). Are you agreeing with that or have you got some other 'plan' in mind? At least Truthpaste is consistent. You just slide and slither all over the shop.

And yes there is antisemitism (including in Israel - directed at anti-zionist Jewish people), on the left, in the centre and especially on the right of politics. That may be a factor in some people's decision to migrate. But it is not 'the plan' you were endorsing.

[truthpaste]

I can smell something - the smell of your usual bullshit.

You said 'As for the Jewish people, yes they are mainly returning back to their Land as has always been the plan..'

I asked you 'what plan' and you came back with deflection and gibberish.

Many Jewish people have migrated to Israel, with the largest number in recent decades from the USA. But it is not 'their Land'.

God has said otherwise, and the ink has been dry for at least 2,500 years on the OT prophecies relating to this and many other matters that are coming to fruition in our lifetime:-

When the British Mandate terminated on May 14, 1948, Israel became a nation in one day, fulfilling yet another Bible prophecy. “Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment?......." (Isaiah 66:8)

[Canton Kev]

God has said otherwise, and the ink has been dry for at least 2,500 years on the OT prophecies relating to this and many other matters that are coming to fruition in our lifetime:-

When the British Mandate terminated on May 14, 1948, Israel became a nation in one day, fulfilling yet another Bible prophecy. “Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment?......." (Isaiah 66:8)

The breakup of the USSR and Yugoslavia made about 20 new countries.

[Stanmore Bluebird]

I am with Truthpaste 100%. Fed up to the high teeth with the genocide and hate faced by the Jewish nation for thousands of years. We have for too long been the whipping boys of other nations. Racist claims in Nazi Germany and USA, UK and all other countries over the centuries that Jews have too much influence causing economic downturns are dangerous nonsense and always have been.

Research the number of Jews in the world. We are a tiny % of the human population.

If racists unfairly picked on bigger modern day groups who would (rightfully) fight back straight away such as (say) devout Christians, Moslems, Orientals, Athiests, Jehovah Witnesses etc; then persecution would soon stop or there would be military conflict and such racists would end up with bloody noses or worse.

Leave the Jews alone! We are far from perfect - including or perhaps especially - those residing in Israel.

We have earned the badge for facing, fighting and overcoming persecution. The world should leave us alone.

[truthpaste]

I am with Truthpaste 100%. Fed up to the high teeth with the genocide and hate faced by the Jewish nation for thousands of years. We have for too long been the whipping boys of other nations. Racist claims in Nazi Germany and USA, UK and all other countries over the centuries that Jews have too much influence causing economic downturns are dangerous nonsense and always have been.

Research the number of Jews in the world. We are a tiny % of the human population.

If racists unfairly picked on bigger modern day groups who would (rightfully) fight back straight away such as (say) devout Christians, Moslems, Orientals, Athiests, Jehovah Witnesses etc; then persecution would soon stop or there would be military conflict and such racists would end up with bloody noses or worse.

Leave the Jews alone! We are far from perfect - including or perhaps especially - those residing in Israel.

We have earned the badge for facing, fighting and overcoming persecution. The world should leave us alone.

I completely agree, it is staggering that Israel makes up 0.2% of the World's population yet Jewish winners of the Nobel Peace Prizes for outstanding contributions to the World stand at over 20%!! Pen-Drives and even the development of the Mobile phone itself was developed in Israel.
No wonder God promised that Israel would bless the World >> "I will make you into a great nation. I will bless you and make you famous, and you will be a blessing to others" - Genesis 12v2

If nations had any wisdom at all, then they would look to bless Israel and understand the level of blessing that Israel has brought to the World, the words of Genesis 12v1-2 are proven throughout history.

Stanmore Bluebird >> take a look at this 5 minute summary of how the last 70 years has proven that God's Almighty Hand is with His People Israel.

[Stanmore Bluebird]

Thanks truthpaste. Most interesting and much of it is factually correct in my opinion. The simple truth is that the early settlers in 1948 rolled up their sleeves and worked like slaves to irrigate their so hard earned land.

I am not sure about G-D’s existence although hopefully there is an Almighty presence in the next world. Nobody in this life knows for sure lest we could prepare ourselves for death better than we do.

The part about the consolidation of the diverse settlers into speaking the Hebrew language around 1948 is debatable because the Hebrew shown in the fascinating summary was ancient biblical Old Testament Hebrew which only religious Israelis today understand. I have Sabre relatives over there who know and care nothing about ancient Biblical Hebrew and the dogma of the old faith. They totally.cannot read or understand this language.

What an interesting film though. 4 of the 6 prophecies coming true were absolutely correct. Besides the Hebrew language bit, not sure if the sections about Russian and Ethiopian Jews being allowed to settle in Israel is relevant as the modern day country started in 1948, well before the 2 groups of later immigrants arrived. To Israel’s shame (in my opinion) these groups have often been mistreated by the people already in situ. Too often I have heard that the Russians are lazy and I don’t believe in stereotyping people like this in the manner we have had to endure for many millenniums.

Nonetheless, all strength and well being for Israel from now on is my wish. But we must be fair to our perceived “enemies” also. Am not sure they all are!

By the way, we are well off the topic of the original thread! Being of Welsh Jewish stock, it was fascinating to read the early comments and links. It doesn’t really matter though.

[Yossi Benayoun]

It is a shame the way this thread turned out, but predictable nowdays.

What I would add is, there are Jews who do not believe in God. They are still Jews. While the modern day paradigm see Judaism as a religion it is also a culture, an ethnicity, an ethical system and much more. There are many ways to be Jewish.

The Jews of South Wales have a rich history, that sadly may be in terminal decline.

I wonder if forum posters have any stories relating to the Jewish community of South Wales?

[Rjk]

It is a shame the way this thread turned out, but predictable nowdays.

What I would add is, there are Jews who do not believe in God. They are still Jews. While the modern day paradigm see Judaism as a religion it is also a culture, an ethnicity, an ethical system and much more. There are many ways to be Jewish.

The Jews of South Wales have a rich history, that sadly may be in terminal decline.

I wonder if forum posters have any stories relating to the Jewish community of South Wales?

my uncle recently moved to Cardiff from the states, and despite being very much an atheist he's a new Yorker of Jewish descent he was very surprised to find there was very little in the way of Jewish culture here.

I guess most of the South Wales towns and cities are just too small to support some of these minority communities.

[Stanmore Bluebird]

There was a thriving community in Cardiff until about 1965 by which time most of the communities all over South Wales such as Merthyr, Bargoed, Llanelli and others had practically died out or moved down to Cardiff. Several Jewish cemeteries in such areas are overgrown and largely forgotten.

There was 3,000 approx Jews in Cardiff until the mid 60s. The community in 2022 total about 300 individuals in both the orthodox and reform synagogue (one of each). Since it’s heyday when I believe in Cardiff the synagogue count was 4, the numbers dwindled for these reasons:

Moving to areas of higher Jewish population in London and Manchester primarily to feel more comfortable in larger numbers.
Emigration to Israel.
Leaving the religion primarily on account of inter- marriage.
Simple loss of faith.

I’m no expert though. At the start of this thread, Yossi and others referred us to many interesting articles about South Welsh Jewry. Solomon and Gaynor is a fictional film well worth viewing about Jewish struggles in the early 20th century.

[Gofer Blue]

It is a shame the way this thread turned out, but predictable nowdays.

What I would add is, there are Jews who do not believe in God. They are still Jews. While the modern day paradigm see Judaism as a religion it is also a culture, an ethnicity, an ethical system and much more. There are many ways to be Jewish.

The Jews of South Wales have a rich history, that sadly may be in terminal decline.

I wonder if forum posters have any stories relating to the Jewish community of South Wales?

I remember Victor Freed and Mr. Shumanski who owned shops in Aberdare and Mountain Ash in the 1950's when I was growing up there. Freed's was the “go-to” shop for all things to do with pianos, TV's and radios. See this article:

https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/1767326

Mr. Shumanski I remember as being the “go-to” man for watch repairs and also, somewhat bizarrely, records (i.e. vinyl). https://cynonvalleymuseum.wales/wp-c...orgvuxmt5e.jpg

They were both Russian Jews and were well respected members of the valley community.

I don't really know how many Jewish children there were in my grammar school. I knew one girl who was, but there must have been others because they self-excluded from morning assemblies along with Catholic kids.

There was a synagogue in Aberdare but I don't remember one in Mountain Ash.

[truthpaste]

Thanks truthpaste. Most interesting and much of it is factually correct in my opinion. The simple truth is that the early settlers in 1948 rolled up their sleeves and worked like slaves to irrigate their so hard earned land.

I am not sure about G-D’s existence although hopefully there is an Almighty presence in the next world. Nobody in this life knows for sure lest we could prepare ourselves for death better than we do.

The part about the consolidation of the diverse settlers into speaking the Hebrew language around 1948 is debatable because the Hebrew shown in the fascinating summary was ancient biblical Old Testament Hebrew which only religious Israelis today understand. I have Sabre relatives over there who know and care nothing about ancient Biblical Hebrew and the dogma of the old faith. They totally.cannot read or understand this language.

What an interesting film though. 4 of the 6 prophecies coming true were absolutely correct. Besides the Hebrew language bit, not sure if the sections about Russian and Ethiopian Jews being allowed to settle in Israel is relevant as the modern day country started in 1948, well before the 2 groups of later immigrants arrived. To Israel’s shame (in my opinion) these groups have often been mistreated by the people already in situ. Too often I have heard that the Russians are lazy and I don’t believe in stereotyping people like this in the manner we have had to endure for many millenniums.

Nonetheless, all strength and well being for Israel from now on is my wish. But we must be fair to our perceived “enemies” also. Am not sure they all are!

By the way, we are well off the topic of the original thread! Being of Welsh Jewish stock, it was fascinating to read the early comments and links. It doesn’t really matter though.

And perfectly appropriate because people need to understand WHY the Jews have thinned out among us. 30 years ago the Synagogues in Cathedral Road and Lakeside were fully functional with plenty of Jews attending; the latter has now been demolished and replaced on Cyncoed Road with a smaller one, and the one on Cathedral Road is only now used for business purposes (multiple offices).