Levelling up defined.

[JamesWales]

Er, if that list you posted appeared in the Guardian you’d be rubbishing it. A trade paper publishes something and you take it as Gospel

No I wouldn't. And an article that simply reported the facts without trying to push an agenda wouldn't appear in the guardian anyway

[JamesWales]

Hi James.

Just a quick one.

Do you think there should be ANY negatives associated with levelling up?

Especially one where a Tory peer has been given over £300k of tax payers' money to repair a road on their private estate?

You also act like this is the first occasion of cronyism so we should focus on all the positive promises (that's all they are at the moment) the government have made with the Levelling Up bill.

You're not as balanced as you think or pretend to be.

Try harder.

Of course you should look at good and bad. And it's fair to criticise the ambitions of funding levels, but just focusing on speculation around one funding bid and ignoring all others is pretty pathetic.

There are always more controversial recipients of funding, it doesn't undermine the whole process. You guys are just as bad as people on the opposite end of the spectrum who do exactly the same thing, pick one example of controversial funding and rubbish everything about it

Two cheeks of the same arse!

[Tito Fuente]

Of course you should look at good and bad. And it's fair to criticise the ambitions of funding levels, but just focusing on speculation around one funding bid and ignoring all others is pretty pathetic.

There are always more controversial recipients of funding, it doesn't undermine the whole process. You guys are just as bad as people on the opposite end of the spectrum who do exactly the same thing, pick one example of controversial funding and rubbish everything about it

Two cheeks of the same arse!

"You guys" he says to the person he has no knowledge of before today.

I haven't rubbished anything, have I James?

I've pointed out that so far we have an example of cronyism and the misuse of public funds but you'd rather we ignore that and pretty much everything else that the Tories are accused of and concentrate more on alllll of the positives that we are yet to see.

It's the same way that you defend Brexit.

You're not balanced in the slightest, no matter how many times you tell yourself and others

[JamesWales]

"You guys" he says to the person he has no knowledge of before today.

I haven't rubbished anything, have I James?

I've pointed out that so far we have an example of cronyism and the misuse of public funds but you'd rather we ignore that and pretty much everything else that the Tories are accused of and concentrate more on alllll of the positives that we are yet to see.

It's the same way that you defend Brexit.

You're not balanced in the slightest, no matter how many times you tell yourself and others

If you are part of a small irrational band of the ideologically possessed who are incapable of discussing anything rationally, and instead must find something bad, irrespective of how much truth is even in that story, and do not engage on the wider story or the projects even happening in your area..
..then, yes I will refer to you as a collective

I posted a link to loads of projects actually receiving funding in South Wales. The sad reality is few of you give two shits. More concerned with gossip from another part of the country and keen to just endlessly, incessantly whinge. Nothing positive, ever.

Part of being balanced is pointing out quite how unhinged some of you seem.

Why not talk about some of the projects actually happening in the part of the country we live in? Do you even care?

[cyril evans awaydays]

If you are part of a small irrational band of the ideologically possessed who are incapable of discussing anything rationally, and instead must find something bad, irrespective of how much truth is even in that story, and do not engage on the wider story or the projects even happening in your area..
..then, yes I will refer to you as a collective

I posted a link to loads of projects actually receiving funding in South Wales. The sad reality is few of you give two shits. More concerned with gossip from another part of the country and keen to just endlessly, incessantly whinge. Nothing positive, ever.

Part of being balanced is pointing out quite how unhinged some of you seem.

Why not talk about some of the projects actually happening in the part of the country we live in? Do you even care?

Levelling up is one of those catchy election winning phrases looking for a coherent narrative.

What has happened so far is the UK government has allocated around £4b of public money which will be drawn down in tranches for "worthy causes".

The first awards have been made, much of which you have highlighted.

The problem will always be if the phrase has meaning that the money should go to the most worthy places and causes to be "levelled up". For every instance where it is seen that:

a) the allocation of funds is based on political interest of the sitting government (eg, disproportionately to newly created Tory marginals in the "Red Wall" rather than more compelling need in safe Labour seats;

b) the money goes to areas of affluence in the South or

c) the money goes to political supporters in a way that looks nothing like whatever "Levelling Up" means

then don't be surprised that the worthy schemes get drowned out by accusations gerrymandering, political expediency or cronyism for the ones that look suspect.

I'm sure John Major thought "Back to Basics" was a catchy phrase but it needed people to walk the walk rather than just talk the talk for it to have resonance.

Who knows though, for all his personal defects Michael Gove is a thoughtful and astute politician. His Levelling Up plan may bring some coherence to the phrase but it needs to go beyond suggestions that it will be long on devolution and short on new money.

After all we know how some on here hate the idea of devolved accountabilty and new layers of democracy!

[Tito Fuente]

If you are part of a small irrational band of the ideologically possessed who are incapable of discussing anything rationally, and instead must find something bad, irrespective of how much truth is even in that story, and do not engage on the wider story or the projects even happening in your area..
..then, yes I will refer to you as a collective

I posted a link to loads of projects actually receiving funding in South Wales. The sad reality is few of you give two shits. More concerned with gossip from another part of the country and keen to just endlessly, incessantly whinge. Nothing positive, ever.

Part of being balanced is pointing out quite how unhinged some of you seem.

Why not talk about some of the projects actually happening in the part of the country we live in? Do you even care?

Feel free to start a positive thread about levelling up if you wish. We can all have a lovely chat, a cup of tea and maybe some biscuits as we share and rejoice in how much improvement we can expect to see in the coming years thanks to this wonderful UK Government. I'm getting more teary eyed and patriotic just thinking about it. Add in some Brexit sprinkles and we're talking!

Excuse me for thinking that this thread was pointing out how public funds have been misappropriated (for the nth time) in the last few years by this corrupt bunch of charlatans. Should we not discuss that as it sits a bit too uncomfortably for you?

Should the News at 10 just tell us all of the good stuff that happened in the world today? "Tonight's headline... *BONG* The M23 Bus from Caerau to St Mellon's arrived on time today and also arrived at it's next destination safely and promptly".

Not everything needs balance, James.

Do you want to defend Epstein/Maxwell on the main board as a way of bringing balance? I'm sure they both did a great job of keeping their friends/colleagues happy.

Before you get apoplectic about that, I am using an extreme example to show that you can focus on a negative of something and not have to show another side of it to bring "balance"

The "bad thing" is the bad thing. No amount of good things can make it any better as the bad thing shouldn't have happened in the first place.

Balance is not required here. Over £300k was spent fixing a road of the private estate of a Tory peer. That should be criminal. Why aren't you angry?

"Do you even care?"

[the other bob wilson]

Of course you should look at good and bad. And it's fair to criticise the ambitions of funding levels, but just focusing on speculation around one funding bid and ignoring all others is pretty pathetic.

There are always more controversial recipients of funding, it doesn't undermine the whole process. You guys are just as bad as people on the opposite end of the spectrum who do exactly the same thing, pick one example of controversial funding and rubbish everything about it

Two cheeks of the same arse!

You mean like some of the claims made by the Leave side in the 2016 Referendum? Oh no, you can’t actually because you’re forever defending Brexit aren’t you.

It’s funny, people you disagree with who are critical of the UK Government make a post about it backed up by a link supporting what they say and they’re part of a small minority of zealots with an agenda and you post a link supportive of the UK Government from a trade paper and you say you’re providing balance - balance is the last thing you provide because you’re so one sided. Many of those you criticise for being one eyed leftists were critical of Welsh Labour over some of their recent Covid measures and in doing so, they were more balanced in their outlook than you’ll ever be.

[JamesWales]

You mean like some of the claims made by the Leave side in the 2016 Referendum? Oh no, you can’t actually because you’re forever defending Brexit aren’t you.

It’s funny, people you disagree with who are critical of the UK Government make a post about it backed up by a link supporting what they say and they’re part of a small minority of zealots with an agenda and you post a link supportive of the UK Government from a trade paper and you say you’re providing balance - balance is the last thing you provide because you’re so one sided. Many of those you criticise for being one eyed leftists were critical of Welsh Labour over some of their recent Covid measures and in doing so, they were more balanced in their outlook than you’ll ever be.

No they aren't. A small band of people on here are FOREVER posting endless threads that have no interest in nuance or balance, they are all attacks on one party or government using usually a tiny nugget of truth, that is never really explored (because if it is, you are insulted for not doing what the thread authors want)

It's like listening to someone radical on the Northern Ireland debate who only picks holes in the other side. Catholic this, protestant that. It's embarrasing!

You all actually think this is a normal thread title "The-Two-faced-hypocritical-Buffoon-and-his-Party-set-for-a-Mauling-at-PMQ-s-Today"

Billions spent, hundreds of projects, loads of pro's and con's and yet all a small number of you want to talk about is some nugget of controversy on the award of one piece of funding!

Seriously, do you care about the funding of projects in south Wales, or elsewhere? Do any of you genuinely care?

Or is being angry about clickbait articles what you care more about? Is there any interest in a debate on the Levelling Up programme, or is it just gossip you care about?

This is a genuine question now, because I am starting to think you really don't care at all.

[Tito Fuente]

No they aren't. A small band of people on here are FOREVER posting endless threads that have no interest in nuance or balance, they are all attacks on one party or government using usually a tiny nugget of truth, that is never really explored (because if it is, you are insulted for not doing what the thread authors want)

It's like listening to someone radical on the Northern Ireland debate who only picks holes in the other side. Catholic this, protestant that. It's embarrasing!

You all actually think this is a normal thread title "The-Two-faced-hypocritical-Buffoon-and-his-Party-set-for-a-Mauling-at-PMQ-s-Today"

Billions spent, hundreds of projects, loads of pro's and con's and yet all a small number of you want to talk about is some nugget of controversy on the award of one piece of funding!

Seriously, do you care about the funding of projects in south Wales, or elsewhere? Do any of you genuinely care?

Or is being angry about clickbait articles what you care more about? Is there any interest in a debate on the Levelling Up programme, or is it just gossip you care about?

This is a genuine question now, because I am starting to think you really don't care at all.

Did you have to wipe the tears from your keyboard as you typed that? Dear God that was pathetic.

Good news = truth
Bad news = gossip

Keep pretending YOU care, James.

[the other bob wilson]

No they aren't. A small band of people on here are FOREVER posting endless threads that have no interest in nuance or balance, they are all attacks on one party or government using usually a tiny nugget of truth, that is never really explored (because if it is, you are insulted for not doing what the thread authors want)

It's like listening to someone radical on the Northern Ireland debate who only picks holes in the other side. Catholic this, protestant that. It's embarrasing!

You all actually think this is a normal thread title "The-Two-faced-hypocritical-Buffoon-and-his-Party-set-for-a-Mauling-at-PMQ-s-Today"

Billions spent, hundreds of projects, loads of pro's and con's and yet all a small number of you want to talk about is some nugget of controversy on the award of one piece of funding!

Seriously, do you care about the funding of projects in south Wales, or elsewhere? Do any of you genuinely care?

Or is being angry about clickbait articles what you care more about?

This is a genuine question now, because I am starting to think you really don't care at all.

You just don’t get it do you. You talk about Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland and yet you’re behaving in just the same way because a look at your posting history would show you that you only ever argue from a Conservative party or Brexit point of view. I agree some of us look at things from the opposite point of view to you and post threads to reflect that. I’ll admit as well that I can be one eyed politically, but, as I pointed out earlier, there are instances where I disagree with the side I tend to support. You on the other like to portray yourself as someone who weighs up subjects in an even handed manner before coming down on one side or the other, but you can’t see what’s obvious to others in this thread - you always opt for the same side

[JamesWales]

You just don’t get it do you. You talk about Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland and yet you’re behaving in just the same way because a look at your posting history would show you that you only ever argue from a Conservative party or Brexit point of view. I agree some of us look at things from the opposite point of view to you and post threads to reflect that. I’ll admit as well that I can be one eyed politically, but, as I pointed out earlier, there are instances where I disagree with the side I tend to support. You on the other like to portray yourself as someone who weighs up subjects in an even handed manner before coming down on one side or the other, but you can’t see what’s obvious to others in this thread - you always opt for the same side

No I dont - I will argue AGAINST knee-jerk, one sided arguments that lack any attempt at balance or nuance, and I will attempt to add that to those posts.

Start a neutral thread for a change and you'll see.

[JamesWales]

Did you have to wipe the tears from your keyboard as you typed that? Dear God that was pathetic.

Good news = truth
Bad news = gossip

Keep pretending YOU care, James.

I do care, thats why I want to talk about projects that will benefit people, not be dragged down in a story from the other side of the country.

I've worked with so many people like you before, who are only ever interested in putting up barriers and making things as difficult as possible.

It's endless negativity. Any attempt to widen the debate beyond disney-type arguments that the GovErNmEnT r EvIL just never succeeds.

Total waste of time, so enjoy what will inevitably now be another circle-jerk thread for angry old activists.

[cyril evans awaydays]

No I dont - I will argue AGAINST knee-jerk, one sided arguments that lack any attempt at balance or nuance, and I will attempt to add that to those posts.

Start a neutral thread for a change and you'll see.

What's a neutral thread on the politics board out of interest, do you have an example?

[lardy]

No they aren't. A small band of people on here are FOREVER posting endless threads that have no interest in nuance or balance, they are all attacks on one party or government using usually a tiny nugget of truth, that is never really explored (because if it is, you are insulted for not doing what the thread authors want)

It's like listening to someone radical on the Northern Ireland debate who only picks holes in the other side. Catholic this, protestant that. It's embarrasing!

You all actually think this is a normal thread title "The-Two-faced-hypocritical-Buffoon-and-his-Party-set-for-a-Mauling-at-PMQ-s-Today"

Billions spent, hundreds of projects, loads of pro's and con's and yet all a small number of you want to talk about is some nugget of controversy on the award of one piece of funding!

Seriously, do you care about the funding of projects in south Wales, or elsewhere? Do any of you genuinely care?

Or is being angry about clickbait articles what you care more about? Is there any interest in a debate on the Levelling Up programme, or is it just gossip you care about?

This is a genuine question now, because I am starting to think you really don't care at all.

The guy who wrote The-Two-faced-hypocritical-Buffoon-and-his-Party-set-for-a-Mauling-at-PMQ-s-Today is definitely not a biased leftie

[Tito Fuente]

I do care, thats why I want to talk about projects that will benefit people, not be dragged down in a story from the other side of the country.

I've worked with so many people like you before, who are only ever interested in putting up barriers and making things as difficult as possible.

It's endless negativity. Any attempt to widen the debate beyond disney-type arguments that the GovErNmEnT r EvIL just never succeeds.

Total waste of time, so enjoy what will inevitably now be another circle-jerk thread for angry old activists.

"Endless negativity"

I've made a handful of posts.

You're a strange one, James.

At least you didn't try to pretend to care about the cronyism and corruption in the current Tory party when questioned. I'll take that as a sign of growth.

Enjoy your blinkered day, old chap.

[JamesWales]

"Endless negativity"

I've made a handful of posts.

You're a strange one, James.

At least you didn't try to pretend to care about the cronyism and corruption in the current Tory party when questioned. I'll take that as a sign of growth.

Enjoy your blinkered day, old chap.

Enjoy your reasoned "debate" chaps! The irony of me being called blinkered for attempting to widen the debate out, is too much!

[Tito Fuente]

Enjoy your reasoned "debate" chaps! The irony of me being called blinkered for attempting to widen the debate out, is too much!

Call it whatever you want but you only wanted to divert the debate away from the blatant corruption we are witnessing from the current UK Government and discussing in this thread.

The debate didn't require widening.

You couldn't care less as long as you can point elsewhere and try to distract people from the dirty truth.

Instead of moaning about what other people are discussing, why not start a thread about an actual positive Tory story and see what happens.

[JamesWales]

Call it whatever you want but you only wanted to divert the debate away from the blatant corruption we are witnessing from the current UK Government and discussing in this thread.

The debate didn't require widening.

You couldn't care less as long as you can point elsewhere and try to distract people from the dirty truth.

Instead of moaning about what other people are discussing, why not start a thread about an actual positive Tory story and see what happens.

I just want a debate that looks at the wider issues, considers the hundreds of applications, the pros and cons of them. You are just advocating the equivalent of stories that do not do that - the same stories that only post negatives about certain groups of people, or always label football fans as hooligans. It's just stereotypes. If you only ever highlight negatives, you are just trying to distort the truth, and create an alternative one in which there is some grand conspiracy of corruption.

You aren't presenting the full story - it's just politically motivated speculation about a country road you have never heard of leading to a museum you have never been to or have no idea about. I've actually run a grant scheme before (not to this level, but we gave out grants of upto £5k) and a small minority of people would ALWAYS scream corruption, but it was never so.

If you actually read (too much to ask I know) the first thing I posted on this, it was as follows:

".. if the story is as reported (and it probably isn't) then it's obviously outrageous."

So clearly, if it is as clear cut as made out, then it is outrageous. My point is, that it almost certainly isn't.

What bugs me, is these posts have no interest in real debate or in uncovering anything of substance. It's just relentless, and tiresome mudslinging. Anyone who disagrees and tries to present an alternative argument is invariably insulted. If you don't agree with the CCMB angries then you just get abuse.

This is what is reported in the local paper. It may even be that the thing you are so angry about, isn't even true.

Either way...do I know the full story? No. Does anyone on CCMB? No.

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1981...iveway-sussex/

“The Firle Estate sold Charleston to an independent charity formed in 1980.

“The access track had remained functional for farm traffic and cottages but was unsuitable for Charleston’s visitors travelling in the average family car.

“Charleston successfully applied to the Getting Building Fund to rebuild the track to improve access for visitors, create job opportunities and support the recovery and growth of the region’s visitor economy.

“The southern extent of the new track beyond Charleston that services the dairy farm and estate cottages was funded by Firle Estate.”

A Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities spokesman said: “Charleston has not received any money from the Levelling Up Fund.

“This project was allocated funding from the Getting Building Fund by the South East Local Enterprise Partnership, whose independent evaluators assessed it as offering value for money.

“Charleston is a charity-owned, internationally recognised site of cultural importance, with a museum and art gallery, and this work is estimated to provide a £1.6 million boost to the local economy by creating jobs and increasing visitor numbers.”

[JamesWales]

So just to confirm...

1 / It looks like this project DID NOT receive levelling up funding.

2 / It did receive funding from the South East Local Enterprise Partnership under the Getting Building Fund programme.
https://www.southeastlep.com/about-us/

3 / You can read more about it here
https://www.southeastlep.com/project...ier-to-growth/

4 / I was right to query whether the original story was accurate because it seemingly wasn't.

5 / The world isn't going to hell in a handcart.

[Tito Fuente]

So just to confirm...

1 / It looks like this project DID NOT receive levelling up funding.

2 / It did receive funding from the South East Local Enterprise Partnership under the Getting Building Fund programme.
https://www.southeastlep.com/about-us/

3 / You can read more about it here
https://www.southeastlep.com/project...ier-to-growth/

4 / I was right to query whether the original story was accurate because it seemingly wasn't.

5 / The world isn't going to hell in a handcart.

If this is true (which it probably isn't) then I hope they really do get the £1.6m boost to the local economy (that has been reported) by fixing this road.

To add "balance", this story that is needing further investigation is not indicative of all of the other recent scandals involving the current Tory party.

(I'm pretty sure this is how "balance" works on here, eh James? ).

[JamesWales]

If this is true (which it probably isn't) then I hope they really do get the £1.6m boost to the local economy (that has been reported) by fixing this road.

To add "balance", this story that is needing further investigation is not indicative of all of the other recent scandals involving the current Tory party.

(I'm pretty sure this is how "balance" works on here, eh James? ).

It is indeed Tito. Well done. We've had a conversation and agreed that perhaps this is a nuanced story afterall and not as was originally presented.

I consider that progress.

[Tito Fuente]

It is indeed Tito. Well done. We've had a conversation and agreed that perhaps this is a nuanced story afterall and not as was originally presented.

I consider that progress.

Now that we've established that: would you now care to discuss all of the recent scandals involving the Tory party?

[JamesWales]

Now that we've established that: would you now care to discuss all of the recent scandals involving the Tory party?

Always happy to, but really, again!?

[Dorcus]

The guy who wrote The-Two-faced-hypocritical-Buffoon-and-his-Party-set-for-a-Mauling-at-PMQ-s-Today is definitely not a biased leftie

You're right, tell that to Monkfish, he'd go apoplectic!

[Veg1960]

I think you will find that The Getting Building Fund is actually part of The Levelling up Fund.

Which makes the points you raise a bit irrelevant.