Drakeford pulled no punches then

[TWGL1]

A whoosh moment then the fact is the NHS is less under pressure now than it was in 2017/18 apparently

In 2017/18 It got so bad that 68 leading A&E doctors wrote to the prime minister to spell out their concerns.
This is not now though. It was the winter of 2017-18 - the last bad flu season when more than 300 people a day were dying from that virus at one point.
And that was not even a one-off. In January 2016 hospitals were cancelling routine operations, telling patients to stay away from A&E if they could, and emergency treatment areas were being set up outside some units - just as they are now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59909860

[goats]

A whoosh moment then the fact is the NHS is less under pressure now than it was in 2017/18 apparently

In 2017/18 It got so bad that 68 leading A&E doctors wrote to the prime minister to spell out their concerns.
This is not now though. It was the winter of 2017-18 - the last bad flu season when more than 300 people a day were dying from that virus at one point.
And that was not even a one-off. In January 2016 hospitals were cancelling routine operations, telling patients to stay away from A&E if they could, and emergency treatment areas were being set up outside some units - just as they are now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59909860

That chart showing UK public spending on health is the stand out one, look how it plummeted in 2010. Glad the current shambles have pledged to bring that back up to what it needs to be. We must have lost a fair few oldies in the last few years going from flu to covid crisis….

[Citizen's Nephew]

That chart showing UK public spending on health is the stand out one, look how it plummeted in 2010. Glad the current shambles have pledged to bring that back up to what it needs to be. We must have lost a fair few oldies in the last few years going from flu to covid crisis….

I agree entirely with your post, goats, and would add that because of the decimation of many social services and healthcare services/support since 2010 we were totally ill-prepared for a pandemic governments were already warned about.

Please can we not keep the myth going though that Covid only kills older people. Long Covid will be of enormous cost, but also there are countless lives shortened because of financial cuts to the NHS over a decade, and now, to make things worse, a massive backlog of essential medical services and consultations due to the pandemic.

We should also stop using the pandemic as an excuse. Lack of medical care and facilities/staff is down to our governments of all political persuasions. We need to stop making this about politics and more about incompetence and pathetic logistical/financial planning.

[TWGL1]

I agree entirely with your post, goats, and would add that because of the decimation of many social services and healthcare services/support since 2010 we were totally ill-prepared for a pandemic governments were already warned about.

Please can we not keep the myth going though that Covid only kills older people. Long Covid will be of enormous cost, but also there are countless lives shortened because of financial cuts to the NHS over a decade, and now, to make things worse, a massive backlog of essential medical services and consultations due to the pandemic.

We should also stop using the pandemic as an excuse. Lack of medical care and facilities/staff is down to our governments of all political persuasions. We need to stop making this about politics and more about incompetence and pathetic logistical/financial planning.

That’s a good post, but what I don’t understand is why 5,000 beds been cut this year alone (post pandemic)

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...inter-lockdown

[Citizen's Nephew]

That’s a good post, but what I don’t understand is why 5,000 beds been cut this year alone (post pandemic)

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...inter-lockdown

Incompetence and pathetic logistical/financial planning by our governments. The lack of truth and acknowledgment that the strain on the NHS is no longer about infection but about the lack of GP services, staff shortages, waiting times, supplies, medications.....exacerbated by the pandemic and our reaction to it.

[lisvaneblue]

That chart showing UK public spending on health is the stand out one, look how it plummeted in 2010. Glad the current shambles have pledged to bring that back up to what it needs to be. We must have lost a fair few oldies in the last few years going from flu to covid crisis….

You are misreading the chart. There was no plummeting spending on health in 2010. The chart shows increases above inflation. Even in 2010 and since there have been increases above inflation although smaller than previous years.
The real issue with the NHS is that in current form it is barely fit for purpose.
How can it be that people are told that they might have to wait for hours for an ambulance to arrive in an emergency, or that they will have to wait half a day to be seen in A&E.? Yet we accept this as the norm.
Im not sure pushing more money into the NHS will do anything other than see the cash disappear into the ethos

[Citizen's Nephew]

You are misreading the chart. There was no plummeting spending on health in 2010. The chart shows increases above inflation. Even in 2010 and since there have been increases above inflation although smaller than previous years.
The real issue with the NHS is that in current form it is barely fit for purpose.
How can it be that people are told that they might have to wait for hours for an ambulance to arrive in an emergency, or that they will have to wait half a day to be seen in A&E.? Yet we accept this as the norm.
Im not sure pushing more money into the NHS will do anything other than see the cash disappear into the ethos

So not spending will make things better how? I'm sorry but the elephant in the room here is Brexit/Freedom of movement/ hostile xenophobia-induced staff shortages. Ironically you're right about it not being fit for purpose but that isn't the NHS's fault it is our governments' fault.

Stop with another myth that spending has increased according to a spreadsheet and government mouthpiece in a suit.

Stop with the veiled politics. Take your politics out of this and look at it cold-bloodedly.

[lisvaneblue]

So not spending will make things better how? I'm sorry but the elephant in the room here is Brexit/Freedom of movement/ hostile xenophobia-induced staff shortages. Ironically you're right about it not being fit for purpose but that isn't the NHS's fault it is our governments' fault.

Stop with another myth that spending has increased according to a spreadsheet and government mouthpiece in a suit.

Stop with the veiled politics. Take your politics out of this and look at it cold-bloodedly.

The elephant in the room is related to Einstein's well known quote about stupidity ie doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. More money currently means no change in outcomes because very few are willing to change the model and those that want to are usually shouted down. No veiled politics...that's how it is and unless it is remodelled that's how it will stay.

[Citizen's Nephew]

The elephant in the room is related to Einstein's well known quote about stupidity ie doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. More money currently means no change in outcomes because very few are willing to change the model and those that want to are usually shouted down. No veiled politics...that's how it is and unless it is remodelled that's how it will stay.

I can live with your answer which makes sense to me. However, things are worse than I thought because the room will soon be too small for all the elephants!

[Tito Fuente]

The elephant in the room is related to Einstein's well known quote about stupidity ie doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. More money currently means no change in outcomes because very few are willing to change the model and those that want to are usually shouted down. No veiled politics...that's how it is and unless it is remodelled that's how it will stay.

The quote is about "insanity" not "stupidity" and has wrongly been attributed to Einstein since the 80s.

Not your best form in this thread LB.

[lisvaneblue]

The quote is about "insanity" not "stupidity" and has wrongly been attributed to Einstein since the 80s.

Not your best form in this thread LB.

You got the message and my attention, so not too bad

[Citizen's Nephew]

Im not sure pushing more money into the NHS will do anything other than see the cash disappear into the ethos

Did you mean ethos or ether? Either would work and I'm not trying to be clever but genuinely intrigued as they have different connotations.

[lisvaneblue]

Did you mean ethos or ether? Either would work and I'm not trying to be clever but genuinely intrigued as they have different connotations.

well spotted...You can decide which best suits the statement.

[nomad blue]

A whoosh moment then the fact is the NHS is less under pressure now than it was in 2017/18 apparently

In 2017/18 It got so bad that 68 leading A&E doctors wrote to the prime minister to spell out their concerns.
This is not now though. It was the winter of 2017-18 - the last bad flu season when more than 300 people a day were dying from that virus at one point.
And that was not even a one-off. In January 2016 hospitals were cancelling routine operations, telling patients to stay away from A&E if they could, and emergency treatment areas were being set up outside some units - just as they are now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59909860

Does that actually say it's under less pressure now? Unless I'm misreading it, it seems to suggest the contrary.