IF Drakeford says...

[Croesy Blue]

To be fair Croesy this is a subject dear to my heart and I have to say I think you're both correct. It's unhelpful to pit one against the other because the two problems have enormous environmental consequences. I think everyone needs to take personal responsibility as well as accept that for the majority of our lives we're lied to (advertising, party politics, corruption, greed etc.).

I think most people do take personal responsibility I don’t think you can use pissed up teenagers as a festival as a point against that. Especially when everyone knows massive clean ups happen post festival.

My main problem with taking personal responsibility is it basically achieves **** all without structural change. I’m washing out my tomato tins after cooking while certain airlines are flying empty planes to keep routes open and oil companies are making more money than ever.

[Citizen's Nephew]

I think most people do take personal responsibility I don’t think you can use pissed up teenagers as a festival as a point against that. Especially when everyone knows massive clean ups happen post festival.

My main problem with taking personal responsibility is it basically achieves **** all without structural change. I’m washing out my tomato tins after cooking while certain airlines are flying empty planes to keep routes open and oil companies are making more money than ever.

It's not a clean-up though. It's shifting the problem elsewhere. It's consumption that's the trigger (in the eco sense). Anyway, I don't want to veer off topic too much and it's a thread on its own just to scratch the surface so I'll leave it there.

[xsnaggle]

I think most people do take personal responsibility I don’t think you can use pissed up teenagers as a festival as a point against that. Especially when everyone knows massive clean ups happen post festival.

My main problem with taking personal responsibility is it basically achieves **** all without structural change. I’m washing out my tomato tins after cooking while certain airlines are flying empty planes to keep routes open and oil companies are making more money than ever.

And I thought that I'm the only idiot that does this!

[jon1959]

And I thought that I'm the only idiot that does this!

Lots of us idiots about!

(Can't put a tin in the recycling bin until it is clean and shiny!)

[xsnaggle]

Lots of us idiots about!

(Can't put a tin in the recycling bin until it is clean and shiny!)

My mother used to wash the empty milk bottles before she put them out out, which were then collected and taken to a milk bottling plant which my father went to work to manage every day, where the bottles were then washed in a huge machine with incredibly high temperatures and water jets to make them sterile for the next load of milk.
Madness, but my mother wouldn't let it be seen that there were dirty milk bottles on our front step.

Seems some things from your parents never rub off!!