Government writes off £8.7bn

[Dorcus]

I think Johnson should resign, I think the sheer number parties during lockdown are a disgrace, and earlier I said the UK made loads of mistakes.

I just also recognise the good, I understand that dealing with a pandemic is very difficult, that all governments made mistakes, that all opposition parties would also have made (probably the same) mistakes and that a lot of what is presented as fact is anything but.

I also recognise that as things stand, Mark Drakefords WG policies are having a much greater negative impact on my life and my mental wellbeing than Boris Johnsons parties last year.

I don't know what that makes me, but I'm happy to be it.

Mark Drakeford's Covid policies have had the opposite effect on me. They have lessened my anxiety and reassured me that I am much safer living here rather than in England.

[JamesWales]

Mark Drakeford's Covid policies have had the opposite effect on me. They have lessened my anxiety and reassured me that I am much safer living here rather than in England.

Good for you. Although statistically you are probably only very slightly safer and for much of the period when England was back in offices working, their case rates were actually lower - I've looked into this extensively!

But, nonetheless, I am genuinely pleased he has helped with your anxiety because that affliction is a curse.

I do have concerns as to whether such a cautious approach is good for society's collective anxiety in the long run however, but we shall see.

I see today that England will stop doing daily reporting of figures in April - positive news in my opinion.

[Doucas]

I think Johnson should resign, I think the sheer number parties during lockdown are a disgrace, and earlier I said the UK made loads of mistakes.

I just also recognise the good, I understand that dealing with a pandemic is very difficult, that all governments made mistakes, that all opposition parties would also have made (probably the same) mistakes and that a lot of what is presented as fact is anything but.

I also recognise that as things stand, Mark Drakefords WG policies are having a much greater negative impact on my life and my mental wellbeing than Boris Johnsons parties last year.

I don't know what that makes me, but I'm happy to be it.

Do you think labour under corbyn would have written off £5 billion in fraudulent claims? Do you think he'd have created a vip lane for friends businesses, do you think he'd have spent £37 billion on track and trace? Do you think he'd waited as long as possible to lockdown the country to cause massive economic harm and huge death rates?

You sound completely brainwashed.

[Dorcus]

Good for you. Although statistically you are probably only very slightly safer and for much of the period when England was back in offices working, their case rates were actually lower - I've looked into this extensively!

But, nonetheless, I am genuinely pleased he has helped with your anxiety because that affliction is a curse.

I do have concerns as to whether such a cautious approach is good for society's collective anxiety in the long run however, but we shall see.

I see today that England will stop doing daily reporting of figures in April - positive news in my opinion.

A word of caution:

You should be wary of being seduced by false statistics no matter how "extensively" you look.

[lardy]

I think Johnson should resign, I think the sheer number parties during lockdown are a disgrace, and earlier I said the UK made loads of mistakes.

I just also recognise the good, I understand that dealing with a pandemic is very difficult, that all governments made mistakes, that all opposition parties would also have made (probably the same) mistakes and that a lot of what is presented as fact is anything but.

I also recognise that as things stand, Mark Drakefords WG policies are having a much greater negative impact on my life and my mental wellbeing than Boris Johnsons parties last year.

I don't know what that makes me, but I'm happy to be it.

Obviously Johnson being at a party directly affects no individuals.

But he lied to parliament over them. He said he was furious when he'd found out there'd been one, and it has transpired that there were more than a dozen, he attended some of them, and another was actually for him.

Lying to parliament used to be an automatic resignation. If he doesn't resign, and his party accept it, then that is a big step away from the democracy the UK was built on. Will the country being less democratic, and the leaders being less accountable, have a negative impact on your life and mental wellbeing in future? I'd suggest it probably will.

[life on mars]

Do you think labour under corbyn would have written off £5 billion in fraudulent claims? Do you think he'd have created a vip lane for friends businesses, do you think he'd have spent £37 billion on track and trace? Do you think he'd waited as long as possible to lockdown the country to cause massive economic harm and huge death rates?

You sound completely brainwashed.

Didn't Labour right of 21 billion per year when last in office ?

I should imagine we would have written off treble that under Corbyn, with no early vaccination deployment as Sir kier was dead against that initial funding the government committed too , he wanted to be in step with slow Europe .

[JamesWales]

A word of caution:

You should be wary of being seduced by false statistics no matter how "extensively" you look.

In making an argument against the Welsh Govt's policies, I usually make sure I use data they themselves have used.

[JamesWales]

Obviously Johnson being at a party directly affects no individuals.

But he lied to parliament over them. He said he was furious when he'd found out there'd been one, and it has transpired that there were more than a dozen, he attended some of them, and another was actually for him.

Lying to parliament used to be an automatic resignation. If he doesn't resign, and his party accept it, then that is a big step away from the democracy the UK was built on. Will the country being less democratic, and the leaders being less accountable, have a negative impact on your life and mental wellbeing in future? I'd suggest it probably will.

Broadly, I think this would have happened:

1 / I think Corbyn would have locked us down at the exact same date - whatever else he is, he is pretty libertarian.

2 / I think the support for business and people would have been very similar - ie, pretty comprehensive

3 / I think he would have kept us in the EMA in terms of vaccines and therefore I think that programme would have probably rolled out more slowly, based on other countries performance.

4 / I think he would have been wary of private sector involvement in vaccine development and PPE. Supplies may have been got out more slowly.

5 / I dont think he would have become embroiled in any parties the likes of which we have seen with Johnson.

6 / I think he would have been pretty understanding of the mental problems caused by lockdown/ WFH etc. Although Johnson is also, it's Drakeford and Sturgeon who I think are less good on that issue.

So, some good, some bad, but generally I don't think there is any evidence that Corbyn would have done things better.

And this is the thing, that so many of you seem to forget:

The UK is 22nd in deaths per capita in Europe. We pretty much smashed the vaccine roll out better than any other European country. Our economic support was up there as a world leader.

It makes Johnsons own goals all the more infuriating, but you all seem to think the UK has been universally useless, but we really haven't been.

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...BR~CAN~DEU~FRA

[life on mars]

I think Johnson should resign, I think the sheer number parties during lockdown are a disgrace, and earlier I said the UK made loads of mistakes.

I just also recognise the good, I understand that dealing with a pandemic is very difficult, that all governments made mistakes, that all opposition parties would also have made (probably the same) mistakes and that a lot of what is presented as fact is anything but.

I also recognise that as things stand, Mark Drakefords WG policies are having a much greater negative impact on my life and my mental wellbeing than Boris Johnsons parties last year.

I don't know what that makes me, but I'm happy to be it.

Of course Boris should go .

Have you noticed when the discussion get a rebuttal your just called a name or badged , so much for free speech , debate another view , no wonder new labour is so unappealing ,as so for Corbyn he was an awful leader , he has no leadership skills we still be out to tender for PPE if he was n charged , locked down like China ,, no growth or recovery and once again bankrupt .

[lardy]

Broadly, I think this would have happened:

1 / I think Corbyn would have locked us down at the exact same date - whatever else he is, he is pretty libertarian.

2 / I think the support for business and people would have been very similar - ie, pretty comprehensive

3 / I think he would have kept us in the EMA in terms of vaccines and therefore I think that programme would have probably rolled out more slowly, based on other countries performance.

4 / I think he would have been wary of private sector involvement in vaccine development and PPE. Supplies may have been got out more slowly.

5 / I dont think he would have become embroiled in any parties the likes of which we have seen with Johnson.

6 / I think he would have been pretty understanding of the mental problems caused by lockdown/ WFH etc. Although Johnson is also, it's Drakeford and Sturgeon who I think are less good on that issue.

So, some good, some bad, but generally I don't think there is any evidence that Corbyn would have done things better.

And this is the thing, that so many of you seem to forget:

The UK is 22nd in deaths per capita in Europe. We pretty much smashed the vaccine roll out better than any other European country. Our economic support was up there as a world leader.

It makes Johnsons own goals all the more infuriating, but you all seem to think the UK has been universally useless, but we really haven't been.

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...BR~CAN~DEU~FRA

That's lovely but I wasn't talking about Corbyn. I'd hazard a guess and say that this is the first time I've written 'Corbyn' in a thread since 2019.

But thanks for replying to the post that you wished I'd written.

[JamesWales]

That's lovely but I wasn't talking about Corbyn. I'd hazard a guess and say that this is the first time I've written 'Corbyn' in a thread since 2019.

But thanks for replying to the post that you wished I'd written.

My apologies. That response was to Dorcus who posted about Corbyn a few posts up.

Not sure what I did there.

[lardy]

My apologies. That response was to Dorcus who posted about Corbyn a few posts up.

Not sure what I did there.

Fancy responding to the lying to parliament post, now that you've read it?

[JamesWales]

Fancy responding to the lying to parliament post, now that you've read it?

Yeah sure. Let me finish my omelette 👍

[Dorcus]

My apologies. That response was to Dorcus who posted about Corbyn a few posts up.

Not sure what I did there.

Wrong!

I didn't mention Corbyn either!!!

[Doucas]

Didn't Labour right of 21 billion per year when last in office ?

I should imagine we would have written off treble that under Corbyn, with no early vaccination deployment as Sir kier was dead against that initial funding the government committed too , he wanted to be in step with slow Europe .

Labour and Corbyn are very different people. Blair was in the pockets of Murdoch just like every government since. Corbyn wasn't which is why the media launched a huge campaign against him.

[lardy]

Yeah sure. Let me finish my omelette ��

No probs. You write a few essays for the easy ones and then we'll see if you reply to that one...

[JamesWales]

Obviously Johnson being at a party directly affects no individuals.

But he lied to parliament over them. He said he was furious when he'd found out there'd been one, and it has transpired that there were more than a dozen, he attended some of them, and another was actually for him.

Lying to parliament used to be an automatic resignation. If he doesn't resign, and his party accept it, then that is a big step away from the democracy the UK was built on. Will the country being less democratic, and the leaders being less accountable, have a negative impact on your life and mental wellbeing in future? I'd suggest it probably will.

I agree with you on the general points. It's pretty serious what is happening and if it is found irrefutably that he lied (an I cant see how it doesnt) then I do think he should resign. I already think he should resign anyway, but yes in that instance I think he should for the sake of democracy. That said, I think anyone who tried to overturn the referendum result should do the same. Democracy was shaken when our parliament tried to overturn it for years on end. Politically, nothing shocked me like that.

But yeah, I do think he should resign.

Irrespective, it definitely won't impact on my wellbeing like WFH did or will do it if becomes the norm to isolate colleagues from colleagues and condemn them to a career staring at a screen.

[lardy]

I agree with you on the general points. It's pretty serious what is happening and if it is found irrefutably that he lied (an I cant see how it doesnt) then I do think he should resign. I already think he should resign anyway, but yes in that instance I think he should for the sake of democracy. That said, I think anyone who tried to overturn the referendum result should do the same. Democracy was shaken when our parliament tried to overturn it for years on end. Politically, nothing shocked me like that.

But yeah, I do think he should resign.

Irrespective, it definitely won't impact on my wellbeing like WFH did or will do it if becomes the norm to isolate colleagues from colleagues and condemn them to a career staring at a screen.

Well let's see if he does the correct and honourable thing. I know what my bet is.

[Eric Cartman]

The vast majority of the 8.7 billion is understandable, effectively a write off due to price rises while supply was short. Although it does highlight the issue that we were a) unprepared and b) that we are a county that makes very little, so we were stuck trawling the world and paying whatever price that was asked.

However, I would love to see somebody try to explain away the 600+ million that was written off for PPE that was so far below standard it couldn't even be used in a non-medical setting. I would also love to see who that 600+ million was paid to.

[Eric Cartman]

I agree with you on the general points. It's pretty serious what is happening and if it is found irrefutably that he lied (an I cant see how it doesnt) then I do think he should resign. I already think he should resign anyway, but yes in that instance I think he should for the sake of democracy. That said, I think anyone who tried to overturn the referendum result should do the same. Democracy was shaken when our parliament tried to overturn it for years on end. Politically, nothing shocked me like that.

But yeah, I do think he should resign.

Irrespective, it definitely won't impact on my wellbeing like WFH did or will do it if becomes the norm to isolate colleagues from colleagues and condemn them to a career staring at a screen.

Do you mean the first referendum result in 1975 or the second one in 2016?

[Jordi Culé]

No wonder the government are happy to write off the money purchased on PPE and also furlough.

Incompetence of the highest order needs brushing under the carpet as quickly as possible.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...urlough-grants

[JamesWales]

No wonder the government are happy to write off the money purchased on PPE and also furlough.

Incompetence of the highest order needs brushing under the carpet as quickly as possible.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...urlough-grants

Do you have any comprehension of quite how hard trying to manage a global pandemic is? Do you honestly think it's possible to do it with zero mistakes being made?

Before spending billions and billions, there is usually years worth of research and preparation, and even then money goes to waste when viewed with hindsight.

On this occasion, PPE, economic support, medical interventions etc were all done in the matter of weeks.

What is frustrating, is that had they delayed furlough support or PPE orders then no doubt you would have been the first to moan at that point.

[lardy]

Do you have any comprehension of quite how hard trying to manage a global pandemic is? Do you honestly think it's possible to do it with zero mistakes being made?

Before spending billions and billions, there is usually years worth of research and preparation, and even then money goes to waste when viewed with hindsight.

On this occasion, PPE, economic support, medical interventions etc were all done in the matter of weeks.

What is frustrating, is that had they delayed furlough support or PPE orders then no doubt you would have been the first to moan at that point.

If only there were 200 other countries also going through the same pandemic at the same time, then we could compare!

[JamesWales]

If only there were 200 other countries also going through the same pandemic at the same time, then we could compare!

We can! And I do! Which is why presenting the idea that the UK is universally awful is such a waste of time, and totally politically motivated.

If you follow european and global news, you will know that every country has it's scandals, upsets, wastes of money, mistakes with hindsight and all the rest.

You need to view these things on balance. Well. you don't need to, but it is much better to do so.

[lardy]

We can! And I do! Which is why presenting the idea that the UK is universally awful is such a waste of time, and totally politically motivated.

If you follow european and global news, you will know that every country has it's scandals, upsets, wastes of money, mistakes with hindsight and all the rest.

You need to view these things on balance. Well. you don't need to, but it is much better to do so.

Great! How many other countries did you uncover who had given massive contracts to associates and donors? Did any other high courts brand their government actions as "illegal"?

We love balance, so this is perfect. Thanks for doing the research and sharing.