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Always nice to see the old favourites resurfacing. I've always had a soft spot for the infectious diseases one because it sounds so convincing. Why else would the government downgrade it, right?
But the reason was that anyone infected with a virus/disease on that list (ebola, monkeypox, etc) had to go to a specific treatment centre which would have soon been overwhelmed, so downgrading it meant that ordinary hospitals could treat it.
This is the problem though TOBW, what you say isn't correct. You may want them to be politically, but they aren't. I'll repeat them again:
On deaths; as of yesterday the UK is 31st in the world per capita for Covid deaths. We are 23rd in Europe. And it's worth noting that Covid probably hit us sooner than most in Europe
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...BR~CAN~DEU~FRA
On vaccines; whilst the vaccine rollout is harder to come to a definitive opinion on, it is generally recognised that in terms of development and roll out we are world-leading. Others have caught up, but as is generally recognised, speed matters in these things, and the percentage of our population booster vaccinated is even now a good 10% above the EU average.
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...BR~CAN~DEU~FRA
On economic support; again, this is harder still to compare, but I see very little evidence that the UK has underperformed here. At the very least we have spent £199bn on supporting peoples jobs.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52663523
And thats not mentioning the speed of coming out of restrictions, or economic growth or numerous other factors to take into account.
No one should give the UK Govt, or the Welsh Govt, or any Govt a free pass, and ALL have made mistakes, but it's important to look at the data and come to a rounded conclusion, rather than starting with this partisan party-political position and then skew the facts to make it fit that.
Ah statistics. From the list you provided the UK is 21st in Europe (Georgia and Armenia are in Asia, this isn't UEFA), two countries listed in that are Gibraltar and San Marino. The overwhelming majority of the rest are in Eastern Europe.
Here's my statistic based on the same evidence.
Apart from Italy and Belgium, the UK has the highest number of deaths per capita of the high income countries of Western Europe and Scandanavia. It's also worth noting that Covid probably hit Italy sooner than the UK.
Some rather spectacular cherry picking there! Note I played it with a straight bat and listed the stats, you twisted them. It's a fair point on Georgia and Armenia, although Georgia is rarely regarded as Asian.
Some great nit-picking but you made no reference to the vaccine development or roll out or economic support.
You are illustrating exactly the kind of point I was making. Even when it's spelt out in black and white people will partake in all kinds of mental gymnastics to try and make things look different to reality.
The odd thing is it is their own country they are always so desperate to talk down.
Like I said, some things have been done well and some things badly, UK has done better on some things and worse on others. Just accept that. What's so hard with accepting reality? Why the desperation to present things other than they actually are unless you have some political motivation for it?
You can lecture me as much as you like, but, as always, you omit to say that the huge majority of those thirty European countries you mention are old Warsaw Pact countries that, even after all of this time, have struggled to overcome the financial effects of Soviet bloc control. For me, a true like for like comparison is with the countries we have most in common with economically and politically. That’s why I specifically mentioned Western European democracies and the last time I looked only Belgium, Italy and Gibraltar had a worse death rate than us.
I’ve never been critical of the Government when it comes to vaccine roll outs (although there does seem to be a Johnson factor now which is leading to falls in the numbers being jabbed), it has been the big success for the Government in the past two years.
As for financial support, I would expect the same, if not more, if there had been a Labour or any other non Tory Government in power at the time - it was their duty to provide that sort of support in the gravest national crisis of most of our lifetimes.
Anyway, this thread was started with a specific subject in mind and I repeat that the time for Covid rules to “collapse” is not when a thousand or so people are still dying every week. I read at the start of all this whenmany of those now arguing that “we should move on” (to use Tory speak) we’re saying Covid was just a version of the flu that 20,000 deaths a year from flu was considered to be a bad year with a very strong strain of the virus. With current figures, we’re heading for 50,000 deaths a year from Covid and that’s with at least a double vaccine for the vast majority of people. I just think that we’ve fallen into the trap of “freedom days” and talking of the pandemic in the past tense before - there seems no logic in dropping all Covid rules when so many are still dying and so, in the absence of any logic, you have to look for other reasons and a PM still under severe pressure and fighting for his political life would appear to be as good a reason as any.
This place has become much more political ( anything non-football is quickly turned into a political post , it never used to be like that ), I often pop on before I head out for work, one day soon I expect to see a post " its my daughters wedding day today and its lashing down, Boris should have acted sooner / Well Boris had a garden party blah blah blah "
It's funny, the overwhelming majority of this thread is a debate between those who welcome the lifting of restrictions and those who are more cautious. There are a few passing references to the underlying politics of the timing of the announcement.
I have seen a few threads recently which weren't overly political until you chipped in with something along the lines of "I'm going out on a limb here, all of the above is the Tories fault, mostly Boris but past tories should also be blamed".
Perhaps the physician could heal himself on such matters.
the 3rd post is political , but yes the early posts were a discussion without the political interference ( though it was always going to happen )
my occasional posts about " blaming Boris " are purely a bit of a joke, lighthearted humour, nothing more, nothing less
Matt what do you expect? Virtually every morning theres a Tory MP giving interviews trying to defend Boris over something.
No point going over old ground with the endless list of issues. Even within his party plenty want him gone.
This messageboard is a reflection of the street.
Keep defending him all you like. Youd probably do youself a favour not getting all wound up with the criticism though because its deserved and he needs to go.
The point is there are far more dangerous virus in circulation which is not reported on day after day and I personally think it would have been beneficial to have released a statement saying it was downgraded at the time to reassure the public.
Let’s not forget around the same time we had T.V footage of people dropping down dead in the streets, Medical professionals walking around in Hamzut suits and fake TV footage of a studio hospital circulating etc which now appears to have been propaganda. I real dangerous HCID would not need exaggeration would it ?
The difficulty the conspiracy theorists have is that it's a really enticing subject, as juicy as you can get. Something bad has engulfed the whole world out of nowhere!
But that is also the downfall - we've all been talking about it for two years and there's not many gaps left. They're left with trying to squeeze some nonsense in - an example being Organ Morgan, who is currently on the politics board claiming that the vaccine causes two week old babies to stand on their own.
Not true. I linked to a video of a medical professional making that claim.
For the benefit of those who don't visit the politics board, this is the 4-minute video - https://www.bitchute.com/video/9naLs8Bx4mDV/
Last edited by Organ Morgan.; 10-02-22 at 12:10. Reason: Crap spelling
They were in MSN , I’m sure you can locate them as quickly as me … hope that helps