Covid Rules Collapsing

[adz-a32]

Not true. I linked to a video of a medical professional making that claim.

For the benefit of those who don't visit the politics board, this is the 4-minute video - https://www.bitchute.com/video/9naLs8Bx4mDV/

You’re so gullible that it’s cringe… if the claims are true, it would be EVERYWHERE, even on MSM. Not just on a random, obscure, untrustworthy website

[Organ Morgan.]

You’re so gullible that it’s cringe… if the claims are true, it would be EVERYWHERE, even on MSM. Not just on a random, obscure, untrustworthy website

I concur, it would be everywhere, except as noted in that thread we are are just 14 months on from when the very first C19 vaccine was adminstered.

[Dorcus]

I have a conspiracy theory of my own that I wish to put forward. People the world over lie and make up things: just because they have qualifications doesn't mean they're exempt. Beware human beings, they speak with forked tongues.

[adz-a32]

I concur, it would be everywhere, except as noted in that thread we are are just 14 months on from when the very first C19 vaccine was adminstered.

But myocarditis and the blood clots (despite both being very very uncommon) were everywhere. If the claims made by the doctor were true, why isn’t it everywhere?

[Bald Barry Bastad]

You can lecture me as much as you like, but, as always, you omit to say that the huge majority of those thirty European countries you mention are old Warsaw Pact countries that, even after all of this time, have struggled to overcome the financial effects of Soviet bloc control. For me, a true like for like comparison is with the countries we have most in common with economically and politically. That’s why I specifically mentioned Western European democracies and the last time I looked only Belgium, Italy and Gibraltar had a worse death rate than us.

I’ve never been critical of the Government when it comes to vaccine roll outs (although there does seem to be a Johnson factor now which is leading to falls in the numbers being jabbed), it has been the big success for the Government in the past two years.

As for financial support, I would expect the same, if not more, if there had been a Labour or any other non Tory Government in power at the time - it was their duty to provide that sort of support in the gravest national crisis of most of our lifetimes.

Anyway, this thread was started with a specific subject in mind and I repeat that the time for Covid rules to “collapse” is not when a thousand or so people are still dying every week. I read at the start of all this whenmany of those now arguing that “we should move on” (to use Tory speak) we’re saying Covid was just a version of the flu that 20,000 deaths a year from flu was considered to be a bad year with a very strong strain of the virus. With current figures, we’re heading for 50,000 deaths a year from Covid and that’s with at least a double vaccine for the vast majority of people. I just think that we’ve fallen into the trap of “freedom days” and talking of the pandemic in the past tense before - there seems no logic in dropping all Covid rules when so many are still dying and so, in the absence of any logic, you have to look for other reasons and a PM still under severe pressure and fighting for his political life would appear to be as good a reason as any.

Covid deaths will decline as the warmer months come so it's not going to be anywhere near 50k. How many people died in a winter week before covid came along? Get a grip. Time to move on. Pointless arguing. Covid rules will disappear soon enough no matter what anyone says here. Get used to it.

[the other bob wilson]

Covid deaths will decline as the warmer months come so it's not going to be anywhere near 50k. How many people died in a winter week before covid came along? Get a grip. Time to move on. Pointless arguing. Covid rules will disappear soon enough no matter what anyone says here. Get used to it.

And a good afternoon to you, nice use of the obligatory “time to move on” (TM Conservative Central Office) by the way.

[Eric Cartman]

I realise that CCP are economic with the truth

They aren't the only ones

[Eric Cartman]

the 3rd post is political , but yes the early posts were a discussion without the political interference ( though it was always going to happen )

my occasional posts about " blaming Boris " are purely a bit of a joke, lighthearted humour, nothing more, nothing less

Political in what sense? My post was certainly not party political. It's an observation based on being able to see the stark staring obvious. Backbench rebellion brewing, announce something they like, backbench rebellion subsides.

How exactly do you discuss something that is decided in number 10 without there being a mention of politics?

[blue matt]

Political in what sense? My post was certainly not party political. It's an observation based on being able to see the stark staring obvious. Backbench rebellion brewing, announce something they like, backbench rebellion subsides.

How exactly do you discuss something that is decided in number 10 without there being a mention of politics?

it wasn't a dig at you, your post might not have been party political, but it was still political and was always going to get the " CCMB Political mob " going

[Dorcus]

Probably because for the vast majority of the population the symptoms are mild to moderate as per Sir Chris Whiity ?

The "vast majority of the population" should think "there but for the Grace of God go I" and take more care of those more vulnerable.

[JamesWales]

New Zealand - 53 deaths

UK - 159,000+ deaths

This comment undermines so much of what you say on here. If you don't get the difference between NZ and the UK than god help you...and ur one of the ones who argues for unrestricted borders.

I know Americans don't get irony, but still...

[az city]

This comment undermines so much of what you say on here. If you don't get the difference between NZ and the UK than god help you...and ur one of the ones who argues for unrestricted borders.

I know Americans don't get irony, but still...

The argument is about whether Covid mitigations have any effect. It has nothing to do with borders.

The difference between the UK and NZ on Covid is that NZ's mitigation measures have been extreme but very effective.

[Armitage Shanks]

Are new Zealand deaths from covid, and are the UK deaths with covid? As they as being entirely different.

[+ the native hipster]

The argument is about whether Covid mitigations have any effect. It has nothing to do with borders.

The difference between the UK and NZ on Covid is that NZ's mitigation measures have been extreme but very effective.

the only way to get covid is/was to import it , nz shut their borders that stopped the spread

[JamesWales]

The argument is about whether Covid mitigations have any effect. It has nothing to do with borders.

The difference between the UK and NZ on Covid is that NZ's mitigation measures have been extreme but very effective.

Mate NZ is hundreds of miles away from its nearest border. We have a free market agreement with countries 25 miles away. ****sake. Mad.

[az city]

Mate NZ is hundreds of miles away from its nearest border. We have a free market agreement with countries 25 miles away. ****sake. Mad.

Irrelevant. Idiotic.

[JamesWales]

Irrelevant. Idiotic.

Well it's not is it. How many lorries, drivers, planes, deliveries enter NZ each day Vs the UK?

Whether it's correct or not, NZ has adopted a zero covid strategy. No other western countries have, apart perhaps for large periods Australia. Obviously it's just a massive coincidence that these are countries with no land borders and hundreds of miles from anywhere else.

Again, we can debate whether it's the right policy or not but quite obviously it's easier for NZ to implement it than the UK or Germany or France or Canada or almost anywhere else. To ignore that is to ignore geography.

[TWGL1]

Well it's not is it. How many lorries, drivers, planes, deliveries enter NZ each day Vs the UK?

Whether it's correct or not, NZ has adopted a zero covid strategy. No other western countries have, apart perhaps for large periods Australia. Obviously it's just a massive coincidence that these are countries with no land borders and hundreds of miles from anywhere else.

Again, we can debate whether it's the right policy or not but quite obviously it's easier for NZ to implement it than the UK or Germany or France or Canada or almost anywhere else. To ignore that is to ignore geography.

New Zealand has only just opened its borders though ,and it only has a small population, will be interesting to revisit the statistics in a few months , and I’m led to believe they only include “of Covid” in their statistics not “with Covid”

Florida with its population full of retired people opted for a no restriction policy and the statistics are not much different to states who applied authoritarian measures

[delmbox]

Again, we can debate whether it's the right policy or not but quite obviously it's easier for NZ to implement it than the UK or Germany or France or Canada or almost anywhere else. To ignore that is to ignore geography.

I hate to say it but JamesWales is right about this.

I feel dirty

[the other bob wilson]

I hate to say it but JamesWales is right about this.

I feel dirty

So you’re agreeing that if the UK Government was in charge of New Zealand over the past two years and the New Zealand Government in charge here, the total deaths figures in each country would be the same as they are now? James Wales is right to say there are advantages that New Zealand has over us when it comes to coping with a pandemic, but I don’t believe they are the sole reason for the vast difference in numbers of deaths in the two countries.

[delmbox]

So you’re agreeing that if the UK Government was in charge of New Zealand over the past two years and the New Zealand Government in charge here, the total deaths figures in each country would be the same as they are now? James Wales is right to say there are advantages that New Zealand has over us when it comes to coping with a pandemic, but I don’t believe they are the sole reason for the vast difference in numbers of deaths in the two countries.

No not at all, I think that New Zealand have a competent Government and a leader who actually gives a shit about her people whereas the Covid response here has been a disastrous mix of incompetence and fraud. The bit I agree with is that it's easier to control the amount of people in and out of New Zealand because we're not only a lot closer to our neighbours but also a far busier international hub

[goats]

No not at all, I think that New Zealand have a competent Government and a leader who actually gives a shit about her people whereas the Covid response here has been a disastrous mix of incompetence and fraud. The bit I agree with is that it's easier to control the amount of people in and out of New Zealand because we're not only a lot closer to our neighbours but also a far busier international hub

Clearly the Tories care more about the economic issues/money etc than NZ did. The furlough was good but we will be paying for it for years to come. Got a few mates in NZ who tell me things aren’t too great as it’s a country that relies heavily on tourism and no one’s been there for almost 2 years….as well as being very remote it has a small population to take care of also, just 5 million.

[cyril evans awaydays]

So you’re agreeing that if the UK Government was in charge of New Zealand over the past two years and the New Zealand Government in charge here, the total deaths figures in each country would be the same as they are now? James Wales is right to say there are advantages that New Zealand has over us when it comes to coping with a pandemic, but I don’t believe they are the sole reason for the vast difference in numbers of deaths in the two countries.

I think you have to factor in chronology as well as geography when assessing the import and circulation of the virus in the UK. For some reason the UK closed its borders in the first half of 2020 three months after countries such as Germany. A tad ironic using JamesWales's parlance given that Germany was in the continental centre of the EU single market and Schengen and we had just taken back control of ours after decades of EU hegemony.

Similarly when Delta first appeared on the Indian sub-continent we red listed Bangladesh and Pakistan but did not shut our borders to India for another two weeks. This was despite India having higher percentage of cases at the time we embargoed the other countries. Of course the impending visit of Boris Johnson (subsequently cancelled) was in no way a contributory factor to that decision.

[JamesWales]

Wales latest..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-60332835

[JamesWales]

I hate to say it but JamesWales is right about this.

I feel dirty

Second time this month you've agreed with me now. Do you want my number?