The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

[Organ Morgan.]

'World events do not occur by accident. They are made to happen, whether it is to do with national issues or commerce; and most of them are staged and managed by those who hold the purse strings.'

The above wasn't written by David Icke or any other 'lunatic conspiracy theorist' but the late Labour Party big hitter Denis Healey who included them in his autobiography The Time of My Life.

For decades he occupied a position to know how the world really worked because he knocked around with the like of David Rockefeller every year at secret meetings along with scores of other immensely rich and powerful people.

Icke and many others, fellow crackpots (of course), have maintained what Healey stated is true long before his book was published in 2015 - and go much farther by suggesting everything we are presented as true on the world stage is a carefully contrived fake reality and pure theatre... there are no competing political ideologies, and the leaders of all developed countries are carefully pre-selected years in advance of being installed into power to play their roles in a grand theatre production.

Presuming Healey was correct, this Ukraine-Russia conflict is no accident and it's been made to happen. For what purpose isn't clear.

[bobh]

As unsavoury as it might be, I think the quickest, cleanest way to end the is to take out Putin (Putout Putin, shake it all about)

[stan butler]

No. The choice isn't black or white - sit back and watch vs declare war on a nuclear state

I don't know the best thing to do, obviously. I guess I'd say turn everything off for Russia immediately and make them a pariah. No trade, no outside financial transactions - make life hard and unbearable for those living there, without it coming to war. If the Russian people turn against Putin, that may be the best way to get him to back down or get him out.

They will fight back with cyber warfare, which won't be pleasant either, but it's better than fighting back with nuclear weapons - which he has threatened to do and none of us can be sure if it's an idle threat or serious one.

If we all toughen up on sanctions and cause the Russians unbearable times then i believe he will find an excuse to launch an attack on the next country.

[William Treseder]

Europe's goal for 70+ years has been to avoid war at all costs. Putin is taking full advantage of that, knowing this is Europe's bottom line. And he is ready for war now, Europe isn't.

Declaring war on a nuclear state is a no turning back decision. Things will never be the same again. It's really not as simple as sitting back and watching, or 'so be it'.

70 odd yrs of avoiding war at all costs is commendable, but we are now faced with this situation.
Nuclear weapons are a deterrent to a certain extent, but it now appears that it also gives countries that possess them, the green light to brutally invade a neighbours land with little or no consequences.
Certain sanctions may put the squeeze on Putin, but they aren’t much help to the the 100’s of thousands of Ukrainians that are going to perish in the coming months.

[TWGL1]

If we all toughen up on sanctions and cause the Russians unbearable times then i believe he will find an excuse to launch an attack on the next country.

Sanctions won’t make any difference, China 🇨🇳 is assisting them.

Taiwan next ?

[delmbox]

So you’re answer is Yes. We just sit back and watch.

And you're suggesting we declare war on a nuclear nation with a far bigger military than ours 3 days after they invade a country we don't have an alliance pact with. Declare war without the US, Germany, France etc by the way because they wouldn't join us.

At the minute the UK is pumping money and weapons in, and issuing sanctions. I think it's also reasonable to assume that there's a lot of British Special Forces on the ground as well. Maybe the next step is to kick Russia out of SWIFT, which to be fair to our Government they're in support of even though it's the financial equivalent of mutually assured destruction. If Russia invade a NATO country I have no doubt we'll send troops in.

This is a horrible situation and any reaction to is is going to have massive consequences for decades to come, reducing it to simple soundbites like "you want to sit back and watch is it" is ridiculous

[William Treseder]

And you're suggesting we declare war on a nuclear nation with a far bigger military than ours 3 days after they invade a country we don't have an alliance pact with. Declare war without the US, Germany, France etc by the way because they wouldn't join us.

At the minute the UK is pumping money and weapons in, and issuing sanctions. I think it's also reasonable to assume that there's a lot of British Special Forces on the ground as well. Maybe the next step is to kick Russia out of SWIFT, which to be fair to our Government they're in support of even though it's the financial equivalent of mutually assured destruction. If Russia invade a NATO country I have no doubt we'll send troops in.

This is a horrible situation and any reaction to is is going to have massive consequences for decades to come, reducing it to simple soundbites like "you want to sit back and watch is it" is ridiculous

It is a simple soundbite. We will all sit back and watch it unfold in the media, whilst saying under our breath ‘glad it isn’t us’
It could be soon though if you let tyrants like Putin have their way.

[The Lone Gunman]

'World events do not occur by accident. They are made to happen, whether it is to do with national issues or commerce; and most of them are staged and managed by those who hold the purse strings.'

The above wasn't written by David Icke or any other 'lunatic conspiracy theorist' but the late Labour Party big hitter Denis Healey who included them in his autobiography The Time of My Life.

For decades he occupied a position to know how the world really worked because he knocked around with the like of David Rockefeller every year at secret meetings along with scores of other immensely rich and powerful people.

Icke and many others, fellow crackpots (of course), have maintained what Healey stated is true long before his book was published in 2015 - and go much farther by suggesting everything we are presented as true on the world stage is a carefully contrived fake reality and pure theatre... there are no competing political ideologies, and the leaders of all developed countries are carefully pre-selected years in advance of being installed into power to play their roles in a grand theatre production.

Presuming Healey was correct, this Ukraine-Russia conflict is no accident and it's been made to happen. For what purpose isn't clear.

Here we go again.....

[Kind of Blue]

Some the footage and testimony that I’ve seen of Ukrainian citizens has been incredibly moving and awe inspiring. Young men having to bare arms having never held a gun before in their lives as their families shelter, the old woman confronting Russian soldiers with sunflower seeds, a man walking into and trying to stop military trucks’ progress with nothing but his body, an old ethnic Russian berating Russian troops, a woman giving birth on the Kyiv metro. And the defiance of those left on Snake Island telling the Russian naval force to do one knowing the next moments would be their last.

There are deep structural forces and a myriad of decisions that have led to this, fascinating and frightening as they are, but these instances of humanity by ordinary people against oppression are the ones I will try to hold in my thoughts the most.

[The Lone Gunman]

My point is that all the people who regularly slag off the UK could easily go somewhere else but don't.

Ironically, some of those who furiously defend the UK have gone elsewhere. Decades ago.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

My point is that all the people who regularly slag off the UK could easily go somewhere else but don't. Unlike the people of ukraine who have nowhere to go. I don't agree with everything this country does but I know people in the EU who have told me that bexit or not if they were to they had to go home they'd have to be dragged kicking and screaming because UK is far and away better than where they were born If people like sludge think this place is so bad I'd love to know where they would prefer to live.

The invasion of Iraq by Bush and Blair was a war based on lies and ideology

Nothing was achieved

In The Ukraine Putin has been stoking the fires for nearly a decade

The warning signs were there but instead of massing land forces there so leaving him with the only red button option we have now allowed him to squirrel his way in and now our only option seems to be cobbling together some sort of late defensive reshuffle

It's a completely different situation to Iraq which was a military operation than was totally unjustified

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Some the footage and testimony that I’ve seen of Ukrainian citizens has been incredibly moving and awe inspiring. Young men having to bare arms having never held a gun before in their lives as their families shelter, the old woman confronting Russian soldiers with sunflower seeds, a man walking into and trying to stop military trucks’ progress with nothing but his body, an old ethnic Russian berating Russian troops, a woman giving birth on the Kyiv metro. And the defiance of those left on Snake Island telling the Russian naval force to do one knowing the next moments would be their last.

There are deep structural forces and a myriad of decisions that have led to this, fascinating and frightening as they are, but these instances of humanity by ordinary people against oppression are the ones I will try to hold in my thoughts the most.

It's awful but we are left with people talking war games when this conflict was avoidable or at least manageable

We are talking not about brain washed religious fanatics difficult to pin down , it's the mass movement of military hardware and troops right on on doorstep .

Now clearly the Russian Army is massive but a small protective force in Eastern Europe , from Great Britain , USA and others could and should have been a far better deterrent than trident which seems to spend half its time in the dock being repaired .

We have fiddled whilst the house is on fire

[blue matt]

The invasion of Iraq by Bush and Blair was a war based on lies and ideology

Nothing was achieved

apart from getting rid of a dictator ( saddam hussein ) who was gassing ( cyanide, mustard and sarin ) Kurds at Halabja you mean ? ? ?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I'm trying to disengage my brain from politics in general and my own bias...it's tough though when people are so blatant in their hatred for the United Kingdom.

People should shut their fcking mouths about Britain's envolvement or accusing people of jingoism.

Do you know what Britain has done so far?
Do you know what Britain will do?
Do you know how British anti tank weapons helped Ukraine today???

The UK have committed a shit ton more to Ukraine
than the likes of Germany.

A proper anti facist is on his way right now to Wisconsin Avenue in DC.

I am not anti UK

To critises the UK decision makers and others who have left this smoulder whilst we have worried about soppy nonsense like Brexit is not to hate the UK

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

apart from getting rid of a dictator ( saddam hussein ) who was gassing ( cyanide, mustard and sarin ) Kurds at Halabja you mean ? ? ?

That's not the reason why we went in , you realise that don't you ?

That bar of chocolate led to a lot of rotten teeth

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

What would you have said if the UK and America et al put tanks into Ukraine in 2016 or 2018 or any other time. The opposition would have been enormous

If the military and strategic case had been explained then any person of reasonable balance would have agreed 👍

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Bit pointless banging on about what the response has been if you haven't got a clue what you'd do differently though

Build up forces in Eastern regions

We had years to do it

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

But it sticks in the throat somewhat when the person saying we should have done more, send troop or whatever, has spent for ever slagging off the government for actually doing things and thinks the UK is an agent of the US and everything it does is bad. He's a fecking joke.

Well that would be applicable if that were true

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel

Or so it says

[blue matt]

That's not the reason why we went in , you realise that don't you ?

That bar of chocolate led to a lot of rotten teeth

doesn't really make a lot of difference, as my point was, something was achieved, we got rid of a evil dictator who was committing genocide on the Kurds

or shall we ignore that as it doesn't fit in with your anti war stance

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

My point is that all the people who regularly slag off the UK could easily go somewhere else but don't. Unlike the people of ukraine who have nowhere to go. I don't agree with everything this country does but I know people in the EU who have told me that bexit or not if they were to they had to go home they'd have to be dragged kicking and screaming because UK is far and away better than where they were born If people like sludge think this place is so bad I'd love to know where they would prefer to live.

What an absurd nationalistic load of nonsense

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

doesn't really make a lot of difference, as my point was, something was achieved, we got rid of a evil dictator who was committing genocide on the Kurds

or shall we ignore that as it doesn't fit in with your anti war stance

Whoosh

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

you can twist things as much as you want but I know that you understand exactly what I mean. you have all these links to this and that saying but the fact remains he and people like him continually berate th4 government for getting involved in wars they thing the government should not get involved in, and then he gets up om his hind legs and start slagging off the government for not getting involved in a war that has nothing to do with us directly. He, and you, can't have it both ways.
Sit in the sates and tell everybody how useless the UK is by all means, but do not seek to lecture me, I've been there and done it. You just spout shite!! End of!

Cobblers

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Sludge is a mixed up fool.

Oh god dad's army is back

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

No, I disagree with them because they talk absolute shite and use the situation to pursue their own political agenda.

I also absolutely defend their right to talk absolute shite.

I do also think a lot of people in the UK are unpatriotic, and that's absolutely fine. It's weird, but it's fine and patriotism is a poorly defined concept anyway. It does frustrate me how quick some people are to talk down their own country incessantly however, and ignore the good and illuminate the bad disproportionately.

I defend your right to speak absoloute shite defending the Tories on here day in day out

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Build up forces in Eastern regions

We had years to do it

Are you serious ? It's the 'build up' of forces in eastern Europe, and the joining of NATO of most of those Countries in the last 15 years - despite assurances from the USA and NATO - that they wouldn't, that rattled Putin's cage.