Brave Lady

[TWGL1]

You think that bloke is Ukraine's president? Where do you get your news?

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order...tial-election/

In 2014 there was a democratically elected leader who was pro Russian who was then ousted in an uprising which was driven by the west via social media and backed by neo - nazi Ukrainian groups. It’s a long and complicated history between the two nations , who were the same country 33 years ago.

Have a look a Oliver Stones documentary which was produced in 2016

What do you think we were doing in Afghanistan, Iraq ,and Syria for balance ?

There is a wealth if information out there if you’re prepared to look.

[blue matt]

In 2014 there was a democratically elected leader who was pro Russian who was then ousted in an uprising which was driven by the west via social media and backed by neo - nazi Ukrainian groups. It’s a long and complicated history between the two nations , who were the same country 33 years ago.

Have a look a Oliver Stones documentary which was produced in 2016

What do you think we were doing in Afghanistan, Iraq ,and Syria for balance ?

There is a wealth if information out there if you’re prepared to look.

pretty sure a few lay-about students were the first to protest at Maidan square in November 2013, the rest ( inc Neo - nazi groups ) got involved when the Berkut decided to storm the protest and smash some heads in

[TWGL1]

pretty sure a few lay-about students were the first to protest at Maidan square in November 2013, the rest ( inc Neo - nazi groups ) got involved when the Berkut decided to storm the protest and smash some heads in

What about the treatment of ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine?

I’m sure there is good and bad on both sides and what’s been happening since 2014 is appalling.

[JamesWales]

In 2014 there was a democratically elected leader who was pro Russian who was then ousted in an uprising which was driven by the west via social media and backed by neo - nazi Ukrainian groups. It’s a long and complicated history between the two nations , who were the same country 33 years ago.

Have a look a Oliver Stones documentary which was produced in 2016

What do you think we were doing in Afghanistan, Iraq ,and Syria for balance ?

There is a wealth if information out there if you’re prepared to look.

This stuff is important. I am concerned about quite how rabidly pro-Ukrainian people are being, in a nation state sense. The support and sympathy absolutely belongs to the people, and I am 100% on Ukraines side, but there is a degree of naivity about it all.

Whilst Russia unequivocally is in the wrong, not everyone fighting the Russian invasion shares our values. And that is a lesson from history that we shouldn't forget.

[jon1959]

This stuff is important. I am concerned about quite how rabidly pro-Ukrainian people are being, in a nation state sense. The support and sympathy absolutely belongs to the people, and I am 100% on Ukraines side, but there is a degree of naivity about it all.

Whilst Russia unequivocally is in the wrong, not everyone fighting the Russian invasion shares our values. And that is a lesson from history that we shouldn't forget.

I agree with most of that, but not all of 'us' share what you call 'our values' either. There have been a few reports in the last few days of Ukranian neo-Nazi groups recruiting volunteer fighters in the UK, and a raft of European and American far right nationalists (some of them white supremacists) piling in to Ukraine. Russia is in the wrong and Russia is the aggressor this time, but this is not the simplistic goodies v baddies conflict that much of the media and political caste are presenting.

It also exposes new depths of hypocrisy by the authorities. Celtic are fined by FIFA for their fans displaying Palestinian flags. No one will be fined for showing Ukranian flags anywhere. We have bucket collections for Ukraine (quite rightly) but no public/press/political outcry about Yemen where the death toll is massively higher. And our Prime Minister flies into Saudi Arabia to smooch with the regime in the middle of a new state bloodbath of executions (including those convicted after torture, as children, for political or religious opposition and for 'deviant' beliefs). If 'our values' also includes Boris Johnson and his gang then include me out!

However, from what I have seen and read I would happily endorse and support the values of Marina Ovsyannikova. I hope she gets some protection from the scale of international media and social media coverage of her brave action.

[blue matt]

I agree with most of that, but not all of 'us' share what you call 'our values' either. There have been a few reports in the last few days of Ukranian neo-Nazi groups recruiting volunteer fighters in the UK, and a raft of European and American far right nationalists (some of them white supremacists) piling in to Ukraine. Russia is in the wrong and Russia is the aggressor this time, but this is not the simplistic goodies v baddies conflict that much of the media and political caste are presenting.

.

We all know that the Ukraine ( and a fair few countries in that region ) have a issue with the far-right , the AZOV battalion was formed from them, we know that, its not a secret

BUT lets be honest here, Russia are the baddies ( and you have acknowledged that ), they have invaded a country and are bombing crap out of residential area's, they are murdering people, its a fairly simple thing to understand, one country invades another and continues to commit war crimes / bombing and shelling residential areas without a second thought for civilian life, that country are the baddies, the Ukrainian civilians ( many who are decent people ) Have little say on who is turning up to try and defend them ( and we have seen, they need defending ), so surely the goodies ( Ukrainian civilians ) can't be responsible for that

[Tuerto]

I agree with most of that, but not all of 'us' share what you call 'our values' either. There have been a few reports in the last few days of Ukranian neo-Nazi groups recruiting volunteer fighters in the UK, and a raft of European and American far right nationalists (some of them white supremacists) piling in to Ukraine. Russia is in the wrong and Russia is the aggressor this time, but this is not the simplistic goodies v baddies conflict that much of the media and political caste are presenting.

It also exposes new depths of hypocrisy by the authorities. Celtic are fined by FIFA for their fans displaying Palestinian flags. No one will be fined for showing Ukranian flags anywhere. We have bucket collections for Ukraine (quite rightly) but no public/press/political outcry about Yemen where the death toll is massively higher. And our Prime Minister flies into Saudi Arabia to smooch with the regime in the middle of a new state bloodbath of executions (including those convicted after torture, as children, for political or religious opposition and for 'deviant' beliefs). If 'our values' also includes Boris Johnson and his gang then include me out!

However, from what I have seen and read I would happily endorse and support the values of Marina Ovsyannikova. I hope she gets some protection from the scale of international media and social media coverage of her brave action.

Well said. The other big problem is that the West will arm these Nazi-Extremist groups, as well as the Ukrainian Army, who will have no problem fighting alongside the Fascists. Arming Extremists does not work out well, as History shows us.

[Raymond Holt]

Well said. The other big problem is that the West will arm these Nazi-Extremist groups, as well as the Ukrainian Army, who will have no problem fighting alongside the Fascists. Arming Extremists does not work out well, as History shows us.

You're spot on. These weapons which are being funnelled into Ukraine will be staying there when the conflict is over. There will be far-right battalions armed to the teeth with UK-made weapons.

https://questions-statements.parliam...2-03-14/139582

Interesting also that the sanctions on Russia could have such a large effect on UK living standards, on top of the challenges we already face over the energy crisis. Expect corporate media support for the Ukrainian cause to go into overdrive to counteract this.

http://web.archive.org/web/202203170...-2500-a-person

[TWGL1]

You're spot on. These weapons which are being funnelled into Ukraine will be staying there when the conflict is over. There will be far-right battalions armed to the teeth with UK-made weapons.

https://questions-statements.parliam...2-03-14/139582

Interesting also that the sanctions on Russia could have such a large effect on UK living standards, on top of the challenges we already face over the energy crisis. Expect corporate media support for the Ukrainian cause to go into overdrive to counteract this.

http://web.archive.org/web/202203170...-2500-a-person

Good Post

[blue matt]

You're spot on. These weapons which are being funnelled into Ukraine will be staying there when the conflict is over. There will be far-right battalions armed to the teeth with UK-made weapons.

https://questions-statements.parliam...2-03-14/139582

when the invasion is over, most wouldn't want the Ukrainians to have no way to defend themselves from another attack from Russia,

a far-right battalion ( AZOV ) have been well armed since 2014 whilst fighting the Russian backed ( and even better armed ) separatists, so nothing will change in that aspect

Interesting also that the sanctions on Russia could have such a large effect on UK living standards, on top of the challenges we already face over the energy crisis. Expect corporate media support for the Ukrainian cause to go into overdrive to counteract this.

The world had to do something and sanctions were one of the easier options, personally, I would prefer for the UK to try and put pressure on Russia with sanctions than do nothing, unless you think that asking Putin politely would have been enough to get him to turn around the tanks

[NYCBlue]

In 2014 there was a democratically elected leader who was pro Russian who was then ousted in an uprising which was driven by the west via social media and backed by neo - nazi Ukrainian groups. It’s a long and complicated history between the two nations , who were the same country 33 years ago.

Have a look a Oliver Stones documentary which was produced in 2016

What do you think we were doing in Afghanistan, Iraq ,and Syria for balance ?

There is a wealth if information out there if you’re prepared to look.

He was ousted by the Ukrainian government after a people's revolution against him being a puppet of Putin. (he now resides in Russia) There was no military action. (I'm not suggesting outside forces had nothing to with it) but since then two democratic elections have taken place. Are you suggesting that the people of Ukraine (and Russia for that matter) prefer authoritarian governments as opposed to living in a democracy? And that the will of people to govern themselves is a result of western disinformation? People prefer democracy to tyranny.