What a bunch of tossers

[JamesWales]

Well put, Dave. I read it quite a lot now - "you lot lost, you should shut up and go away now". It doesn't work like that. We will hold to account the architects of Brexit, and those that still claim to support it, every step of the way as Brexit unfolds. I can see why that is uncomfortable for them.

How is this anything to do with Brexit? It's just such brain rot to come to that conclusion with absolutely no evidence.

It's like quotient the Bible when there is a car accident. Just madness.

And as I've said before, totally diseingenuous. If people actually cared about the workers involved they would not be making the story about themselves

[the other bob wilson]

understanding is that the bastards only fired sea-fearing workers. All of which were seemingly British. Office based staff in numerous counties were not effected.

Either way, if you don't think France has industrial disputes then you clearly pay no attention to current affairs. French workers get laid off all the time. It's not uncommon for a company to close a French factory and retain a British one - or vice versa.

There are a huge number of variables.

What pissed me off, is as soon as this news breaks, the usual lot on twitter and elsewhere circle like ganets trying to swoop down to make the story about them and how righteous they were in 2016 even though the story is absolutely fck all to do with it. It's so disengenuous. People who actually give a toss will be spending their time offering sympathy or trying to find solutions

You’ve got to acknowledge that after the two votes in the seventies there were people who resolved to get us out of what was then the Common Market and they chipped away and chipped away for decades until there was a complacent prime minister willing to give them a vote on membership. A precedent has therefore been created and those who most wanted us to remain are never going to sit idly by and accept that we’re out for ever. Farage said a 52/48 vote to remain would see him continuing to campaign to come out, so why should the other side be expected to behave differently?

[JamesWales]

You’ve got to acknowledge that after the two votes in the seventies there were people who resolved to get us out of what was then the Common Market and they chipped away and chipped away for decades until there was a complacent prime minister willing to give them a vote on membership. A precedent has therefore been created and those who most wanted us to remain are never going to sit idly by and accept that we’re out for ever. Farage said a 52/48 vote to remain would see him continuing to campaign to come out, so why should the other side be expected to behave differently?

You may be mistaking me for someone else here, but yes, I agree with you and I have no issue (now, finally the referendum result has been fulfilled and democracy has prevailed) with parties standing on a platform of a new referendum - I can imagine the Lib Dems may do that in time and a few small pro-EU parties have tried it.

Thats fine, if a little pointless.

What is less fine is people using any bad situation and exploiting it to make it about them and the topic they care about.

P&O management have behaved reprehensibly and probably illegally. Companies do so across the world, inside the EU and outside. The EU remember consistently has higher unemployment rates than we do. They lose jobs, they gain jobs. Their factories close, ours open. Ours close, theirs open. You cant use any scenario and demand it be about Brexit when it is highly unlikely that it is.

People are of course entitled to behave like arseholes if they wish, but they should be called out for it.

This is about sacked workers. If people think there is something new in that then they really do not pay attention to other peoples lives.

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

understanding is that the bastards only fired sea-fearing workers. All of which were seemingly British. Office based staff in numerous counties were not effected.

Either way, if you don't think France has industrial disputes then you clearly pay no attention to current affairs. French workers get laid off all the time. It's not uncommon for a company to close a French factory and retain a British one - or vice versa.

There are a huge number of variables.

What pissed me off, is as soon as this news breaks, the usual lot on twitter and elsewhere circle like ganets trying to swoop down to make the story about them and how righteous they were in 2016 even though the story is absolutely fck all to do with it. It's so disengenuous. People who actually give a toss will be spending their time offering sympathy or trying to find solutions

What pissed me off was Tories pretending to be shocked about workers being treated like shit by billionaires who've claimed taxpayers money and are paying millions of pounds in dividends, when that's exactly the way they think the world should work, to the extent that they actually voted against laws preventing that kind of behaviour last year and have said publicly that workers should have fewer rights.

People who actually give a toss will be promising never to vote Conservative ever again.

[Swiss Peter]

How is this anything to do with Brexit? It's just such brain rot to come to that conclusion with absolutely no evidence.

It's like quotient the Bible when there is a car accident. Just madness.

And as I've said before, totally diseingenuous. If people actually cared about the workers involved they would not be making the story about themselves

Sorry, was that a response to my post? I didn't say that the P&O dispute (if that' s what you mean by 'this') had anything to do with Brexit. I haven't had the time to look into whether that might be the case or not. Others brought Brexit into this thread, and I was simply responding to an excellent post by Dave which captured the way I look at things.

But, since you're here......

Guido Fawkes full reference was to 'self-loathing liberal brain rot'. You might as well use the full quote while you're at it.

[az city]

I look forward to actually stating some facts some day.

Hope the weather is nice in Arizona old bean.xx

I sympathize. You do get confused, thinking your opinions are facts.

It is nice. I’m in Penylan at the moment though.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

What pissed me off was Tories pretending to be shocked about workers being treated like shit by billionaires who've claimed taxpayers money and are paying millions of pounds in dividends, when that's exactly the way they think the world should work, to the extent that they actually voted against laws preventing that kind of behaviour last year and have said publicly that workers should have fewer rights.

People who actually give a toss will be promising never to vote Conservative ever again.

Bang on the money

Raab and Shapps are these types , Raab in particular totally against workers rights

Oooops .......better pretend I am outraged and support them !

Total tory hypocrites

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I think the meat in the sandwich here is very clear and tory boys just don't like the truth

They vote for a party that has always been on the side of employers

And Raab in that clip is the epitome of Tories

And we are supposed to now belive all this faux outrage from the very same people over this P and O ferry scandal ?

Get out of here ff sake

[Doucas]

I really think that you need to let this Brexit thing go now. Your side lost in a democratic vote and is still trying to ignore the result. Presumably if you had your way, we would be pursuing policies akin to Putins in Russia, including the arrest, maiming and killing of innocent civilians.

The typical right wing, daily mail reading baby boomer ladies and gentleman.

Incredible post.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

The typical right wing, daily mail reading baby boomer ladies and gentleman.

Incredible post.

If you say you are British these days they throw you in jail

[JamesWales]

The typical right wing, daily mail reading baby boomer ladies and gentleman.

Incredible post.

Credit for referencing right wing, boomers and the daily mail but you've really missed an opportunity here.

For extra points try putting 'far' or 'extreme' before the word right. Also, a missed chance not to mention brexit (or brexshit). Finally, the Daily Mail is always more hilarious when referred to as the Daily Heil.

Otherwise, as usual, an enlightening post.

[JamesWales]

What pissed me off was Tories pretending to be shocked about workers being treated like shit by billionaires who've claimed taxpayers money and are paying millions of pounds in dividends, when that's exactly the way they think the world should work, to the extent that they actually voted against laws preventing that kind of behaviour last year and have said publicly that workers should have fewer rights.

People who actually give a toss will be promising never to vote Conservative ever again.

I don't think you understand how these things work at all. You are just a bigot against a certain party, and ignore any information that challenges your decided position.

That you think that the government is actually happy to see 800 workers sacked shows just how far down the rabbit hole you are.

[JamesWales]

I sympathize. You do get confused, thinking your opinions are facts.

It is nice. I’m in Penylan at the moment though.

They say Americans don't get irony. You must have been there a while.

[life on mars]

It seems it can happen at anytime anywhere in or out of Europe

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/iris...tion-1.1294786

[cyril evans awaydays]

Life on Mars cracking one off to that as we speak.

Took him a while but a 15 year old article got him there in the end!

[Doucas]

Credit for referencing right wing, boomers and the daily mail but you've really missed an opportunity here.

For extra points try putting 'far' or 'extreme' before the word right. Also, a missed chance not to mention brexit (or brexshit). Finally, the Daily Mail is always more hilarious when referred to as the Daily Heil.

Otherwise, as usual, an enlightening post.

Can you not see the state of the UK right now thanks to the voting habits of your demographic? You live in utter denial and the chickens are coming home to roost right now.

[life on mars]

I'd say the state of UK and its boomers would sit more in the Blair era and just copied ever since , voting habits are those who have incline between right and left , there is no far right or far left they have been chassed off a long time ago .

Brexit is about independence bit like SNP . Plaid .Welsh Labour who all seek separation and independence of a central body ie Westminster or EEC .

[JamesWales]

Can you not see the state of the UK right now thanks to the voting habits of your demographic? You live in utter denial and the chickens are coming home to roost right now.

Give me some of the things particularly upsetting you, so that we can see how these things compare with other countries to try and determine the cause of these issues and hence solve them. Not everything is caused and solved by a nations government. Inflation at the moment for example is soaring in almost every country on earth, so it's beyond the reasonable control of governments.

What issues do you want to discuss? Because the issue may be that you are misdiagnosing the problem and hence unable to solve it. Just blaming everything on the government in 2022 may be as futile as just blaming everything on god in 1022. The root causes may well lie elsewhere, at least in some cases. Or fixing problem A may make problem B worse.

[Doucas]

Give me some of the things particularly upsetting you, so that we can see how these things compare with other countries to try and determine the cause of these issues and hence solve them. Not everything is caused and solved by a nations government. Inflation at the moment for example is soaring in almost every country on earth, so it's beyond the reasonable control of governments.

What issues do you want to discuss? Because the issue may be that you are misdiagnosing the problem and hence unable to solve it. Just blaming everything on the government in 2022 may be as futile as just blaming everything on god in 1022. The root causes may well lie elsewhere, at least in some cases. Or fixing problem A may make problem B worse.

• Child poverty increasing
• Working poverty increasing
• House prices becoming unaffordable to young people
• 40 years of stagnant wages
• Huge amounts of corruption in our current government, including passing contracts to mates during covid
• Fire and rehire e.g. P & O (notice other nations didn't have staff sacked)
• Brexit and the serious negative effect that's had on businesses that import/export (this contributes to inflation whether you like it or not)
• The NHS running on fumes and increased privatisation (which no, doesn't make it more efficient)
• Appalling death rates and one of the worst performing developed nations economically when it comes to Covid
• One of the worst pensions in the developed world
• Billionaire controlled right wing media, our newspapers are owned by what? 4 people? These papers have convinced half the British population that the biggest threat to it is wokeness, immigrants and those on benefits rather than the mega wealthy.
• Spiralling wealth inequality
• Huge increases in electric and has bills (this should have been solved decades ago)

You may say well these are worldwide issues (which have been made far worse by our current government) but the basic cause is 40 years of neoliberalism across the West that has screwed the average person but somehow you get braindead morons who views the status quo and somehow thinks 'this is ok'.

I look forward to you diverting from my points or just point blank telling me they aren't issues or that I'm making them up.

[Doucas]

I'd say the state of UK and its boomers would sit more in the Blair era and just copied ever since , voting habits are those who have incline between right and left , there is no far right or far left they have been chassed off a long time ago .

Brexit is about independence bit like SNP . Plaid .Welsh Labour who all seek separation and independence of a central body ie Westminster or EEC .

Blair was tory light and a neoliberal. He'd fit in with the tories post 2010 as would Keir Starmer.

[JamesWales]

• Child poverty increasing
• Working poverty increasing
• House prices becoming unaffordable to young people
• 40 years of stagnant wages
• Huge amounts of corruption in our current government, including passing contracts to mates during covid
• Fire and rehire e.g. P & O (notice other nations didn't have staff sacked)
• Brexit and the serious negative effect that's had on businesses that import/export (this contributes to inflation whether you like it or not)
• The NHS running on fumes and increased privatisation (which no, doesn't make it more efficient)
• Appalling death rates and one of the worst performing developed nations economically when it comes to Covid
• One of the worst pensions in the developed world
• Billionaire controlled right wing media, our newspapers are owned by what? 4 people? These papers have convinced half the British population that the biggest threat to it is wokeness, immigrants and those on benefits rather than the mega wealthy.
• Spiralling wealth inequality
• Huge increases in electric and has bills (this should have been solved decades ago)

You may say well these are worldwide issues (which have been made far worse by our current government) but the basic cause is 40 years of neoliberalism across the West that has screwed the average person but somehow you get braindead morons who views the status quo and somehow thinks 'this is ok'.

I look forward to you diverting from my points or just point blank telling me they aren't issues or that I'm making them up.

I'll go through these. But aren't you massively pro-EU? The single market is probably the most neo-liberal project on earth. Literally designed to prevent government intervention and minimise control over national economies

[Doucas]

I'll go through these. But aren't you massively pro-EU? The single market is probably the most neo-liberal project on earth. Literally designed to prevent government intervention and minimise control over national economies

The EU is less neoliberal than the tories.

[JamesWales]

The EU is less neoliberal than the tories.

It isn't actually. But the single market is the embodiment of neoliberalism. Complete deregulation across borders. There's pros and cons to that, but I dont see how you can object to neoliberalism whilst being a big fan of the EU's single market. That's some mental gymnastics.

[Doucas]

It isn't actually. But the single market is the embodiment of neoliberalism. Complete deregulation across borders. There's pros and cons to that, but I dont see how you can object to neoliberalism whilst being a big fan of the EU's single market. That's some mental gymnastics.

Whatever you say.

[JamesWales]

Whatever you say.

Do you not understand what the single market is?