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Given that they are creating a 2 tiered league and with 2 of the relegated sides almost certain to go up ( maybe 3 with Sheff Utd likely to be in a fairly average play-offs, what is the score with parachute payments next season and beyond.
There was talk of them being binned ?
Pity we wasted ours on wages for the likes of Bacuna, Murphy, Tomlin etc …
Didn’t do us any good twice, just pisssed it up the wall. Probably would have gone bust without it mind. You already know Norwich and Watford will go back up next season, Burnely or Everton will also……same teams going up probably coming back again too.Originally Posted by Lawnmower
You appear to be forgetting that Bournemouth came down two seasons ago, not last season and that West Brom, who came down last season, are nowhere near going straight back up this. Sheffield United have also struggled to adjust. Life in the Championship is not quite as comfortable for relegated teams as you make out.
Tim
As part of the Fans Led Review of Football , which is due to come into legislation this year as it has cross party support, it is proposed that parachute payments will cease and be replaced by a more even distribution of money to Championship clubs.
Keith
Cheers Keith.
I guess this will take a couple of seasons to take effect though ?
There are 4 teams with parachute payments, 2 possibly 3 will go up. The 2 confirmed have completely blown everyone else away in the transfer market.
It’s a massive advantage especially now when other clubs budgets are decimated due to the effects of COVID restrictions over the last 2 seasons and abs gambling is restricted by FFP
None of those 3 were bought after with parachute payment money?
Teams like Fulham, West Brom, Norwich Bournemouth etc get promoted with pretty good footballing teams that can usually retain a solid core should they be relegated. Both times we went up we had to practically build a new team and when we consequently got relegated we had to do the same all over again.Didn’t do us any good twice, just pisssed it up the wall. Probably would have gone bust without it mind. You already know Norwich and Watford will go back up next season, Burnely or Everton will also……same teams going up probably coming back again too.
Hence the emphasis on wages.
The parachute money was pissed up the wall by having a whole load of overpaid players here who were just not contributing.
Those 3 would have been costing us Ł4m a year alone
Some of the transfers in made it worse
The Premier League is becoming more and more of a closed shop. There are a small group of teams who oscillate between the Premier and the Championship, but the rules re FFP mean that few teams can come up and compete - and that's just the way the Premier likes it. Come up here, we'll buy all your good players, now f*ck off back to where you came from.
I honestly believe that FFP is a deliberate ploy to prevent good teams competing at the top flight level.
Something has to change. The massive advantage parachute payments now give relegated PL clubs is ridiculous. The number of Championship clubs in huge debt is getting silly. It seems a question of who will be the next Derby.
Some of the teams who have benefitted from parachute payments since the new system was introduced in 2015/16:
Bolton Wanderers, Blackburn Rovers, Reading, Wigan Athletic, QPR, Hull City, Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Swansea City, Stoke City, West Brom, Huddersfield Town and, of course, Cardiff City.
Perhaps they're not the enormous advantage some assume them to be.
Do you say that simply because the club you support has messed up its two opportunities in the top flight, or are you basing that belief on any actual evidence?
Clubs would go bust left right and centre without them.Many of the players they bring down with them also struggle despite being on prem wages,us and Stoke being 2 examples,yet they still have to honour their contracts.
Think some of those mentioned benefitted from the four year parachute payment system which started in 2005/06. By my calculation under that system only one in three teams got promoted again within the period they were in receipt. Under the three year system it has gone up to two in three.
As Tim says, we seem to have wasted a lot on expensive 2nd rate signings that had no resale value to Premier League teams, several of whom are still on our books. The exception was probably Decordova Reid who couldn't hold down a regular slot in a Warnock team.
By my reckoning (which may be wrong), clubs who have failed to get promoted back to the Premier League under the current system include Cardiff City, Swansea City, Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Stoke City, Huddersfield and Hull City.
Parachute payments are obviously a benefit of sorts, but plenty of clubs haven't managed to take full advantage of them. Those that have bounced back either immediately or within two years have tended to be the bigger clubs that you would expect to be challenging for promotion under any circumstances, or the clubs who managed to retain the bulk of a squad that would be expected to perform well in this division anyway such as Norwich and Fulham.
The way many clubs operate financially at this level is clearly a problem, but I reckon citing parachute payments as being the problem is way too simplistic.
It might be worth adding that Cardiff, Swansea and Middlesbrough have all had failed playoff attempts to get back to the PL since their most recent relegations. Huddersfield look like they might achieve the same this season. Both Sunderland and Hull have been promoted quickly back to the top flight prior to their most recent relegation.
Not sure what my point is, just seemed worth adding!
I also have a general feeling, without really being able to back it up that the premier League is becoming more of a closed shop.
premier League teams finances have grown so much over the years, they also seem to have become a lot smarter with it as well - the merry go round of dinosaur managers seems to have come to an end and most exciting talent in terms of management as well as players seems to end up here.
I think (could be wrong) that for about the last 4 years running, 2 out of the 3 promoted teams were still receiving parachute payments - and I'd say it was pretty likely that the pattern will continue this season.
the club's that have gone up in this period without parachute money are the likes of Brentford, Leeds, Sheffield United and wolves, so it is still very much possible, but it just feels to me that it is becoming harder to do.
when you consider that the amount of money teams get in parachute payments alone is bigger than the entire operating budget of some teams then it isn't a big surprise.
Apart from the current top two in the Championship and one or two others (eg Forest and Middlesbrough, who paid getting on for ten million for a player last summer), the Pandemic has a profound effect on transfer spending at this level, but the Premiership appears not have to have been affected at all, so you would assume that the gap between the two divisions must grow with or without parachute payments (which I think should be scrapped immediately).
As for City, it’s all been said already about how we’ve wasted tens of millions of pounds in the transfer fees - I know Murphy has not helped himself at all, but it’s a disgrace that our third highest ever signing, who we signed at the age of twenty three, is, almost certainly, going to leave us on a free at twenty seven having been out on loan this season. We’ve not just signed players with no resale value, but when we did sign someone of the “right” age they went backwards at a rate of knots.
I've had a look at the stats of teams relegated from the Premier League 2001-2020. For each side I've looked at how often those sides have won automatic promotion, any promotion, or any top 6 finish in the Championship in any of the following 3 seasons. Amazingly, only 1 side has managed relegation, promotion, relegation and then promotion in that time - Birmingham City from 2005/06.
Automatic promotion within 1 year/2 years/3 years:
2000s - 8/2/1 (11)
2010s - 4/1/1 (6)
Any promotion within 1 year/2 years/3 years:
2000s - 8/2/2 (12)
2010s - 9/0/4 (13)
Top 6 finish within 1 year/2 years/3 years:
2000s - 14/7/7 (28)
2010s - 16/3/4 (23)
I have no idea when parachute payments came into effect, but there is a suggestion that it was easier for relegated teams to get back to the Premier League after 3 seasons in the 2000s than it was a decade later.
Next, I thought I'd check a hunch I had where it seems to me that it's the same old sides fighting for promotion. It turns out I was wrong.
Between 2001-2010, 28 different sides finished in the top 6 of the Championship, 20 different sides won promotion and 13 different sides finished in the top 2.
Between 2011-2020, 31 different sides finished in the top 6 of the Championship, 23 different sides won promotion and 17 different sides finished in the top 2.
Great work.
So, the Premier League - not quite the closed shop some believe it to be.
I should maybe add that of the 23 different sides that won promotion in the 2010s, 12 of them had also won promotion in the 2000s while 7 of the 17 different sides that finished in the top 2 in the 2010s had done so in the previous decade.
8 of the 12 sides only promoted in the 2010s (not the 2000s) had played in League 1 since 2000; 5 of them had played in the bottom tier since then.
20 years ago who would have guessed Swansea, Bournemouth and Brentford would have made the Premier League? I think any well-run club playing good football, with an eye for bringing in quality players, can make it.
apparently parachute payments came into effect in the 06/07 season.
on the face of it there doesn't seem to be much difference between the 2000s and the 2010s, with 12 and 13 teams promoted within the first 3 years.
however that works out as 1.2 or 1.3 a year.
for the last 4 years there have been 2 a year promoted with parachute payments, and it seems likely that there will be at least 2 this year, possibly 3 - it just feels as though there has been a bit of a step change over the last few years.
I could be wrong and maybe next season we will see teams without parachute payments dominating the league, but I doubt it
Have a look at the teams going up in the last few seasons.
Fulham, Norwich, a few times, Burnley, Newcastle, West Brom a couple of times, us
( in our final season of parachute funds), the top 2 ( maybe 3) this season, Villa, Hull ( I think the year they can’t up with us), these are just off the top of my head.
Seems that at least 1 normally 2 of the top 6 and generally at least 1 of the top 2 are benefitting from parachute money.
And due to Covid’s effect on budgets the difference is getting bigger
The teams going up also tend to be well-supported, or have wealthy owners, or are well-managed and well-run. Parachute payments are clearly not the be-all and end-all if you look at the stats.
To be honest, I don't know what people want these days. Financial fair play? In my opinion, that system is, and always has been, absolute nonsense. It's just a joke, as the clubs who get punished are never those who are successful - they're always the clubs who've failed in one way or another.
Do we want some sort of a level playing field? If so, how could that possibly be achieved?
Whatever happens, we'll always have big clubs, small clubs, clubs who are well-run, clubs who are a circus, clubs with wealthy owners, clubs without. That's always been the way and I'd guess it always will be.
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