Reply With QuoteSimple question, yes or no.Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Should Welsh speakers, regardless of where they live in Wales, be able to communicate in Welsh to their local council, government etc?
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So people are learning Welsh so they can fill in Cardiff County Council forms ?
Or you are talking about other forms ?
Do you think the Welsh language is stronger through more people being taught it as youngsters and young adults or by people DEMANDING to be provided with Welsh language council tax forms ?
Simple question, yes or no.
Should Welsh speakers, regardless of where they live in Wales, be able to communicate in Welsh to their local council, government etc?
I don't think it's because I don't speak Welsh that these bilingual forms should stop .
I think they should stop because it's a waste of money and box ticking .
I don't think anyone can demand something and expect to get it
It's 2022 , the welsh language is strong and its strong because people are speaking it and people are learning it . They are not learning it by getting a form through the post in welsh as well as English.
In it's simplest terms you're saying that someone who is Welsh speaking shouldn't get a form or message in Welsh when they are in Wales.
I really can't understand why you think that's reasonable.
I'm not saying that people learn Welsh in order to fill in forms, I know people who can't speak Welsh but fill in the Welsh part of the form as they want the form to be sent out in Welsh in the future!
Clearly education makes the language stronger, that's a no-brainer. Only sending out English forms means that Welsh speakers don't get the option, but they should get that option for the reasons in the first paragraph.
No
I have always thought that the provision of services should be determined by the demand for that service .
I don't see the point of sending out bilingual council forms when in some places hardly anyone speaks Welsh.
They have been given that right now but I think it's daft
There's 200 people in my street
3 houses are Welsh speaking
They get council tax forms in Welsh and English, most people in the street don't speak welsh and can't understand the forms , they are bilingual and can understand English ....it just seems a waste of money when it's just a bloody form
End of argument from me. No point carrying on with it. You have an attitude towards this I find utterly abhorrent.
You have no idea how many people use the language
It's just ignorance on your part
You don't speak the language so you won't come into contact with it and think it's not worthwhile.
I hear it spoken nearly every day
I use it in my job with welsh speakers
My daughter used to work in Cardiff and was the designated welsh speaker with customers who wanted to deal in the language.
She would have welsh speakers coming up to hear all the time and was as natural as speaking in English
You say you would prefer to go walking or fishing which is mainly things you do on your own so it's not surprising you don't come across it.
The thing is that I can bump into more welsh speakers than anglers whenever I go out but I don't think that lakes and fisheries should be closed down because I don't fish and nobody i now does either.
OK 👌
Fishing , Football , Curry
Just interests
Public money generally isn't spent on that
But S4C which has dreadful viewing figures is subsidised and council forms are sent out to people in Welsh and English and its utterly pointless . And a waste of money .
Public money is spent on football and fishing.
Probably more than on these forms you keep banging on about.
Council tax forms ate once a year.
Maintaing parks and sporting areas are all year round.
Fishing is expensive to maintain and keep the rivers and lakes unpolluted.
The Welsh Language is massively important to Wales.
I went to Mr Urdd at Llangranog, learned to the best of my shitty ability taught by Mr Robert's at a school in Newport.
Even went to see the Cardiff Tigers (I think) American Football team at Ninian Park followed by Cefyl Pren at The Newport Centre that evening.
On the flip side, been ****ed off by the staff at Ifor Bach for rudimentary knowledge of the Welsh Language which just made me resentful rather than understanding.
Super Furry Animals have been amazing at building personal bridges for me.
I hope that the language flurries and that at some point in time the majority of people in Wales will have a better command of the language than me.
Sounds like something Thatcher would do.. bloody Tories.
So basically **** the Welsh speaking people in these areas then because they are such a minority its pointless. Sounds like a tory attitude to things.
Having a mare here Sludge.
The ridiculous nature of the situation was summed up for me yesterday when for a reason to get on a Welsh language course I wrote, “I’m embarrassed that I don’t know my mother tongue “. I don’t know the language of the country that I’ve lived in for 42 years, how mental is that?
As for getting rid of Welsh literature etc, that’s only going to marginalise Welsh speakers even more and make the language less visible.
What a strange thing to say. You sound a bit confused. You know that Yma O Hyd isn't our national anthem, right?
As for me coming up with 'a better suggestion', the fact is I couldn't care less what Wales fans sing before international matches. Whatever makes them happy is fine is fine by me. I think Yma O Hyd is utter garbage, but if other people like it then so be it.
I totally agree with you that the Welsh language is very important . But it's made stronger by helping people to speak welsh . These forms don't do that .
I pay for fishing through my rod licence and fishing permit . That money goes towards keeping the rivers and lakes clean . It's completely irrelevant .
No it was a Labour government that gave Wales devolution and massively invested in the Welsh language and I voted for that .
I think you are being very precious . Since the Industrialisation of South Wales and the rapid growth of population English has become the dominant language . We know that 100 years ago the language was persecuted .
It's in a far better state these days thanks to the 1997 devolution and investment since then .
What people I think should be able to differentiate between is kids being beaten with a stick for speaking Welsh and the almost zealot like March towards Wales becoming a country where only 10 percent of a town like Bridgend speak welsh but the only way of getting a decent education is sending children to a Welsh school where it appears the use of the language drops out after school as the parents don't speak welsh .
Now clearly if the language for future generations can be encouraged by welsh schools and welsh education then it makes sense to analyse whether money is being spent on areas that matter .
I think that spending money on helping people to speak welsh is a good idea . I think spending money on bilingual services is a waste of money because very very few people in Wales who speak welsh as their first language are not able for the purposes of a form to understand English.
I think the pro welsh language lobby are completely over the top . Welsh is in a far better state these days and it's got nothing to do with bilingual council forms .
I think the point you make that "Welsh will never die now" is completely incorrect.
without significant efforts to keep it going it could easily die out within a few generations.
it is held up as a model of how to maintain a minority language by many countries.
there are languages in China with tens of millions of speakers that you've never heard of, that are dying out rapidly because the Chinese government want mandarin to be the only language
Wow, I thought you were a socially conscious liberal, the mask has well and truly slipped
Sludge facTORYWow, I thought you were a socially conscious liberal, the mask has well and truly slipped
Been staring us in the face.
Ha ha. Good spot.
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