wage stagnation

[Rjk]

IMG_20220406_114709.jpg

the stagnation in people's real wages since 2010 is unprecedented in modern times.
no wonder so many people are struggling currently.
Much of this was down to the ideological austerity that was brought in following the global financial crisis.

most other European countries have seen real wages increasing over the same period. Italy are similar to us and Greece worse but most better.

[JamesWales]

IMG_20220406_114709.jpg

the stagnation in people's real wages since 2010 is unprecedented in modern times.
no wonder so many people are struggling currently.
Much of this was down to the ideological austerity that was brought in following the global financial crisis.

most other European countries have seen real wages increasing over the same period. Italy are similar to us and Greece worse but most better.

You can see the stagnation started before 2010, and is largely connected to the Global Financial crisis, although without a doubt austerity doesnt aid wage growth.

Would be interesting to see the data you cite for other countries. Do you have it?

[Rjk]

You can see the stagnation started before 2010, and is largely connected to the Global Financial crisis, although without a doubt austerity doesnt aid wage growth.

Would be interesting to see the data you cite for other countries. Do you have it?

Yes it's on my phone so I'll post it later.

The initial downturn is obviously the global financial crisis, but most economists now agree that the austerity significantly delayed the recovery.

[JamesWales]

Yes it's on my phone so I'll post it later.

The initial downturn is obviously the global financial crisis, but most economists now agree that the austerity significantly delayed the recovery.

Yeah Im sure thats true. The general consensus tends to be that it was necessary to an extent but went on too long and cut too deep

[Doucas]

You can see the stagnation started before 2010,

Incredible. That's what you take from this.

[JamesWales]

Incredible. That's what you take from this.

It's about working out what is happening, why and solving it.

You are only interested if the answer is 'gEt tHe tOrIeS oUt', even if that is not the cause of the issue, which it quite possibly is not given that wage stagnation is somewhat of a western phenomena, happened before they were elected, has changed direction under them and the fall came on the back of an enormous global financial shock.

[Rjk]

Yeah Im sure thats true. The general consensus tends to be that it was necessary to an extent but went on too long and cut too deep

I don't think that is the general consensus now.

I think it WAS the prevailing opinion amongst economists at the time, but now they've seen how much harm it has done.

[Doucas]

It's about working out what is happening, why and solving it.

You are only interested if the answer is 'gEt tHe tOrIeS oUt', even if that is not the cause of the issue, which it quite possibly is not given that wage stagnation is somewhat of a western phenomena, happened before they were elected, has changed direction under them and the fall came on the back of an enormous global financial shock.

I mean it's ****ing obvious the cause. The wealthy control our politics and media, more billionaires than ever and the vast majority of newly generated wealth is going to them.

[JamesWales]

I mean it's ****ing obvious the cause. The wealthy control our politics and media, more billionaires than ever and the vast majority of newly generated wealth is going to them.

Except it's not obvious. Your brand of left-wing politics offers no more evidence than a religious belief in the afterlife. Where is it obvious? Our greatest media in the UK is paid for through the licence fee. We have a much lower ratio of billionaires than other countries (well outside the top 10 in europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...f_billionaires) although the number no doubt does grow so does the number of millionaires and thousandanaires.

The top 1% of earners (rightly) pay as much in tax as everyone in the 50-90%th percentile.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...ings/cbp-8513/

I know you want what you say to be true, but it often isnt and thats why the problems never get solved to your satisfaction because youve been mislead as to how easy they are to solve.

[Wales-Bales]

You can see the stagnation started before 2010, and is largely connected to the Global Financial crisis, although without a doubt austerity doesnt aid wage growth.

Bingo, we have a winner! Is it time for a global financial reset?

[life on mars]

Real wages and productivity in the UK have stagnated since 2007, whereas employment has risen considerably. Many commentators lament the consequent failure of `living standards’ to rise at historical rates. But real GDP per capita has grown by more than 20% since 2000 despite the Great Recession, so aggregate living standards have in fact risen. This column resolves the apparent paradox

https://voxeu.org/article/paradox-st...g-standards-uk

[the other bob wilson]

Real wages and productivity in the UK have stagnated since 2007, whereas employment has risen considerably. Many commentators lament the consequent failure of `living standards’ to rise at historical rates. But real GDP per capita has grown by more than 20% since 2000 despite the Great Recession, so aggregate living standards have in fact risen. This column resolves the apparent paradox

https://voxeu.org/article/paradox-st...g-standards-uk

You'll be telling us to rejoice like Thatcher did in a minute

[life on mars]

You'll be telling us to rejoice like Thatcher did in a minute

Of course I wont , I work in a logistical company which in the main pays just over the minimum wage with prospects of rises based on ability and performance , they all have a fairly good standard of living , majority own cars and homes , take holidays , have mobile phone and TV subscription , go our for meals and socialise whcih is not cheap , you can see and hear this from their conversations of course they want more but compared when I first entered the poorly labour market they are doing okay in my humble view .

The only area Id say they struggle is paying into a private pension that would deliver in old age comparable value to the public sector .

[Doucas]

Real wages and productivity in the UK have stagnated since 2007, whereas employment has risen considerably. Many commentators lament the consequent failure of `living standards’ to rise at historical rates. But real GDP per capita has grown by more than 20% since 2000 despite the Great Recession, so aggregate living standards have in fact risen. This column resolves the apparent paradox

https://voxeu.org/article/paradox-st...g-standards-uk

I swear older generations don't understand inflation. It doesn't matter if GDP has gone up 20% because inflation has gone up by around 60% since 2000.

But GDP is also a terrible metric to measure living standards as I reckon most of that increase has gone to he wealthiest as its incredibly easy to make money if you have it already.

[Eric Cartman]

Real wages and productivity in the UK have stagnated since 2007, whereas employment has risen considerably. Many commentators lament the consequent failure of `living standards’ to rise at historical rates. But real GDP per capita has grown by more than 20% since 2000 despite the Great Recession, so aggregate living standards have in fact risen. This column resolves the apparent paradox

https://voxeu.org/article/paradox-st...g-standards-uk

If you can't see the gaping hole in that then i don't know what to say.

[Eric Cartman]

Of course I wont , I work in a logistical company which in the main pays just over the minimum wage with prospects of rises based on ability and performance , they all have a fairly good standard of living , majority own cars and homes , take holidays , have mobile phone and TV subscription , go our for meals and socialise whcih is not cheap , you can see and hear this from their conversations of course they want more but compared when I first entered the poorly labour market they are doing okay in my humble view .

The only area Id say they struggle is paying into a private pension that would deliver in old age comparable value to the public sector .

What is the average house price where you live?

I ask because where I live/work, someone on min wage would definitely not have the financial leg room to be able to save to buy a house, it isn't even close.

[lardy]

Of course I wont , I work in a logistical company which in the main pays just over the minimum wage with prospects of rises based on ability and performance , they all have a fairly good standard of living , majority own cars and homes , take holidays , have mobile phone and TV subscription , go our for meals and socialise whcih is not cheap , you can see and hear this from their conversations of course they want more but compared when I first entered the poorly labour market they are doing okay in my humble view .

The only area Id say they struggle is paying into a private pension that would deliver in old age comparable value to the public sector .

Just over minimum wage, let's say £10 an hour. That is about 20k a year.

Own a house, a car, holidays, meals out - they can come and sort my domestic budget out for me

[Eric Cartman]

Just over minimum wage, let's say £10 an hour. That is about 20k a year.

Own a house, a car, holidays, meals out - they can come and sort my domestic budget out for me

The only options available are, either bought their houses a long time ago or they don't actually exist.

[life on mars]

I know folk on benefits , on minimum wage and just above thier living standards are far better than I can remember as a child from a working class background and that of my own children's lives , having access to things such as mobile phones , TV subscriptions, cars , foreign holidays , eating and drinking out at today's costs, was not about , therefore In my humble opinion and experience living standards are better .

Being on minimum wage doesn't stop folk earn more as there are opportunities to do overtime ,supplement thier earnings , and bring in welfare support as well as adding in ones spouse , as in my previous point most progress onto above minimum wage as they progress from thier starting pay .

[cyril evans awaydays]

I know folk on benefits , on minimum wage and just above thier living standards are far better than I can remember as a child from a working class background and that of my own children's lives , having access to things such as mobile phones , TV subscriptions, cars , foreign holidays , eating and drinking out at today's costs, was not about , therefore In my humble opinion and experience living standards are better .

Being on minimum wage doesn't stop folk earn more as there are opportunities to do overtime ,supplement thier earnings , and bring in welfare support as well as adding in ones spouse , as in my previous point most progress onto above minimum wage as they progress from thier starting pay .

It's almost like, as opposed to the previous generations, the current and future ones have been told they will own nothing and be happy!

[Organ Morgan.]

Those aged 25 and below are Generation Z. What letter comes after Z?

[cyril evans awaydays]

Those aged 25 and below are Generation Z. What letter comes after Z?

J ?

https://www.rd.com/article/last-lett...ed%20a%20swash.

[Doucas]

I know folk on benefits , on minimum wage and just above thier living standards are far better than I can remember as a child from a working class background and that of my own children's lives , having access to things such as mobile phones , TV subscriptions, cars , foreign holidays , eating and drinking out at today's costs, was not about , therefore In my humble opinion and experience living standards are better .

Being on minimum wage doesn't stop folk earn more as there are opportunities to do overtime ,supplement thier earnings , and bring in welfare support as well as adding in ones spouse , as in my previous point most progress onto above minimum wage as they progress from thier starting pay .

I think most young people would prefer affordable housing, well paid jobs and a functioning NHS than 'TV subscriptions'.

You sound like an employer who says, well we won't give you a raise but you can have a pizza party.

Just as usual from the tories on this forum, despite overwhelming evidence showing how bad things are for younger people they say 'well mobile phones and netflix'.

Society is supposed to move forwards, not backwards.

[Wales-Bales]

I think most young people would prefer affordable housing, well paid jobs and a functioning NHS than 'TV subscriptions'.

You sound like an employer who says, well we won't give you a raise but you can have a pizza party.

Just as usual from the tories on this forum, despite overwhelming evidence showing how bad things are for younger people they say 'well mobile phones and netflix'.

Society is supposed to move forwards, not backwards.

It's certainly moving backwards, but not in the way you think it is.

[JamesWales]

I think most young people would prefer affordable housing, well paid jobs and a functioning NHS than 'TV subscriptions'.

You sound like an employer who says, well we won't give you a raise but you can have a pizza party.

Just as usual from the tories on this forum, despite overwhelming evidence showing how bad things are for younger people they say 'well mobile phones and netflix'.

Society is supposed to move forwards, not backwards.

I have enormous sympathy with you on this - fixing the housing market is critical. But again, I would suggest you are just drifting to your default blame, which gets you (and us) nowhere. The government may run the country, but they are not the cause of every single issue - look to Canada today, where their equivalent of the Labour party are in power and they have a severe housing crisis. Look at Cardiff. Housing policies are mainly set at a devolved or local council level, both Labour run and Cardiff has become less and less affordable.

This isn't to blame Labour or the Tories, it's a plea to get to the bottom of the issues and fix them