Would Labour Risk Reversing The Rwandan Solution

[JamesWales]

I will take a guess at that bastion of right wing politics...........


Denmark!!

Spot on.

Quote released today from that notoriously racist Tory, the Danish immigration minister, Mattius Tesfaye, son of an Ethiopian refugee, former vice Chairman of the Socialist Peoples Party and current MP for the centre-left governing Social Democrats.

Perhaps Europe is finally going to start dismantling people smuggling gangs seriously?


https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/20/...asylum-seekers

https://order-order.com/2022/04/20/d...ers-to-rwanda/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattias_Tesfaye

[Eric Cartman]

Spot on.

Quote released today from that notoriously racist Tory, the Danish immigration minister, Mattius Tesfaye, son of an Ethiopian refugee, former vice Chairman of the Socialist Peoples Party and current MP for the centre-left governing Social Democrats.

Perhaps Europe is finally going to start dismantling people smuggling gangs seriously?


https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/20/...asylum-seekers

https://order-order.com/2022/04/20/d...ers-to-rwanda/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattias_Tesfaye

Did he provide that much needed evidence to suggest why the approach the British government is taking will reduce human trafficking? You seem so certain it will but then you dodge every question about it. Maybe Priti will find it down the back of her sofa.

I am of the opinion that when the government spends hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayer money it shouldn't be on a whim and should be supported with an assessment of the value it returns. Happy to hear from you why you don't think that is an appropriate approach.

[JamesWales]

Did he provide that much needed evidence to suggest why the approach the British government is taking will reduce human trafficking? You seem so certain it will but then you dodge every question about it. Maybe Priti will find it down the back of her sofa.

I am of the opinion that when the government spends hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayer money it shouldn't be on a whim and should be supported with an assessment of the value it returns. Happy to hear from you why you don't think that is an appropriate approach.

It is important to do a cost/benefit analysis but the reality is there are no facts and no evidence about something that hasn't happened yet, and the costs/benefits of the existing system are also impossible to measure.

I think it's worth trying to do this if it reduces the demand to come to the UK illegally. I dont have an issue with that and see no better solutions coming forward apart from a general shrugging of shoulders.

What is frustrating is that people resort to tropes without actually considering it. So anything to try and reduce illegal immigration is just branded 'racist'. TBH, I think people are seeing through that argument now and realising it's bullshit. At the very least at least a Danish-Ethiopian from a centre left party endorsing the same policy should make it's detractors come up with better reasons to oppose it.

[Eric Cartman]

It is important to do a cost/benefit analysis but the reality is there are no facts and no evidence about something that hasn't happened yet, and the costs/benefits of the existing system are also impossible to measure.

I think it's worth trying to do this if it reduces the demand to come to the UK illegally. I dont have an issue with that and see no better solutions coming forward apart from a general shrugging of shoulders.

What is frustrating is that people resort to tropes without actually considering it. So anything to try and reduce illegal immigration is just branded 'racist'. TBH, I think people are seeing through that argument now and realising it's bullshit. At the very least at least a Danish-Ethiopian from a centre left party endorsing the same policy should make it's detractors come up with better reasons to oppose it.

A serious question for you, do you consider migrants who arrive here illegally to be criminals or victims?

[JamesWales]

A serious question for you, do you consider migrants who arrive here illegally to be criminals or victims?

It's a good question. Both, but victims more. The main problem is that people have infiltrated this system to exploit it.

But if I just go to America and stay there and don't get my flight home, I wouldn't view myself as a criminal per se..but it doesn't mean I can just do it.

There are tough moral calls to be made here, no one denies that. But the country cannot take anyone who wants to come here and we cant have a system effectively run by people traffickers especially when it is a safe country they are coming from.

[Eric Cartman]

It's a good question. Both, but victims more. The main problem is that people have infiltrated this system to exploit it.

But if I just go to America and stay there and don't get my flight home, I wouldn't view myself as a criminal per se..but it doesn't mean I can just do it.

There are tough moral calls to be made here, no one denies that. But the country cannot take anyone who wants to come here and we cant have a system effectively run by people traffickers especially when it is a safe country they are coming from.

But by that reckoning you wouldnt take anybody, we are an island with 30+ safe countries one side of us and 2000 miles of sea the other. We processed far less applications than there were illegal crossings last year. Are you seriously suggesting a core principle of this new policy will be to take more refugees 'from source', will we heck.

If they are victims of trafficking and, in the majority of cases, a genuine claimant then why would you punish them twice by not properly judging their case and then flying them to rwanda against their will. This isn't 'going after people traffickers' this is going after victims. Easy option /= best option.

Why are so many people with such strong cases crossing illegally? Often because the legal process is shite and slow.

[jon1959]

But by that reckoning you wouldnt take anybody, we are an island with 30+ safe countries one side of us and 2000 miles of sea the other. We processed far less applications than there were illegal crossings last year. Are you seriously suggesting a core principle of this new policy will be to take more refugees 'from source', will we heck.

If they are victims of trafficking and, in the majority of cases, a genuine claimant then why would you punish them twice by not properly judging their case and then flying them to rwanda against their will. This isn't 'going after people traffickers' this is going after victims. Easy option /= best option.

Why are so many people with such strong cases crossing illegally? Often because the legal process is shite and slow.

I agree with you completely on this.

However, I'm not sure I share your confidence that Labour would reverse the Rwandan Scheme if it was adopted - and supported by the right wing press. It may be illegal, immoral, impractical and ridiculously expensive, but Starmer & Co have an image to create and maintain. Has Tony Blair pronounced on it yet?

[JamesWales]

But by that reckoning you wouldnt take anybody, we are an island with 30+ safe countries one side of us and 2000 miles of sea the other. We processed far less applications than there were illegal crossings last year. Are you seriously suggesting a core principle of this new policy will be to take more refugees 'from source', will we heck.

If they are victims of trafficking and, in the majority of cases, a genuine claimant then why would you punish them twice by not properly judging their case and then flying them to rwanda against their will. This isn't 'going after people traffickers' this is going after victims. Easy option /= best option.

Why are so many people with such strong cases crossing illegally? Often because the legal process is shite and slow.

Of course we would still take refugees. Britain, like every western country, has a long history of it. It doesn't normally happen via inflated boats, even greater inflated prices all into the pockets of people smugglers. Thats the point. The UK has recently taken refugees from Afghanistan, Syria and Hong Kong in significant (maybe it should have been greater numbers) I dont believe our official policy was to subcontract it out to global gangs?

[life on mars]

A serious question for you, do you consider migrants who arrive here illegally to be criminals or victims?

Both in my view, 90 % are male, of the 90%, 70% are single males .

David Blunkett said In 2002 the then Labour Home Secretary David Blunkett was saying that he had “no sympathy” with young asylum seekers from Kosovo or Afghanistan who come to Britain looking for work. He told members of Parliament, “If these people are dynamic and well-qualified, and I don’t dispute that they are, they should get back home and recreate their countries that we freed from tyranny, whether it be Kosovo or now Afghanistan.” In response to this type of rhetoric by 2004 the Refugee Council was saying that ministers were treating asylum seekers like criminals “contributing to public misunderstanding of refugees”.

[Tito Fuente]

Both in my view, 90 % are male, of the 90%, 70% are single males .

David Blunkett said In 2002 the then Labour Home Secretary David Blunkett was saying that he had “no sympathy” with young asylum seekers from Kosovo or Afghanistan who come to Britain looking for work. He told members of Parliament, “If these people are dynamic and well-qualified, and I don’t dispute that they are, they should get back home and recreate their countries that we freed from tyranny, whether it be Kosovo or now Afghanistan.” In response to this type of rhetoric by 2004 the Refugee Council was saying that ministers were treating asylum seekers like criminals “contributing to public misunderstanding of refugees”.

Why do you have a problem with single males? Are only women and children allowed to suffer atrocities in their countries and find asylum elsewhere?

I wonder if the high percentage (you might want to share your source on that too) of single males that come here is due to them being best equipped to get out of their country, rather than being tied to a bunch of kids.

It's just a thought but on the other hand they're probably all just black rapists in your mind.

[life on mars]

Why do you have a problem with single males? Are only women and children allowed to suffer atrocities in their countries and find asylum elsewhere?

I wonder if the high percentage (you might want to share your source on that too) of single males that come here is due to them being best equipped to get out of their country, rather than being tied to a bunch of kids.

It's just a thought but on the other hand they're probably all just black rapists in your mind.

I simply don't believe they are all true refugees and it's disproportionate between the sexes .

We need a process that let's in real refugees not strong man who have other agendas and thousands of pounds to pay trafficking gangs.

Families are the real victims and true displaced refugees, and we should care for them as a priority , with women and children given a fairer and easier route , with single healthy males should be processed off shore to determine the true nature of their refugee status .

[Tito Fuente]

I simply don't believe they are all true refugees and it's disproportionate between the sexes .

We need a process that let's in real refugees not strong man who have other agendas and thousands of pounds to pay trafficking gangs.

Families are the real victims and true displaced refugees, and we should care for them as a priority , with women and children given a fairer and easier route , with single healthy males should be processed off shore to determine the true nature of their refugee status .

What percentage of the men do you think are "true refugees"?

What authority do you have to back up your bold opinion?

[life on mars]

What percentage of the men do you think are "true refugees"?

What authority do you have to back up your bold opinion?

Send the home office your address and test it out offer up a room .

[Tito Fuente]

Send the home office your address and test it out offer up a room .

Or you could just answer the question but something tells me you don't want to as you can see how racist you're being.

It's ok. We knew that already.

[Eric Cartman]

Send the home office your address and test it out offer up a room .

Pathetic

[JamesWales]

I'm not sure whats happened, but there have been zero reported crossings in the last 5 days, despite weather being okay. I struggle to believe talk of Rwanda or the responsibility passing to the MOD has had such an immediate impact

https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...-24-april-2022

[Eric Cartman]

I'm not sure whats happened, but there have been zero reported crossings in the last 5 days, despite weather being okay. I struggle to believe talk of Rwanda or the responsibility passing to the MOD has had such an immediate impact

https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...-24-april-2022

The patriots on twitter think all it took was one mention of Rwanda. Seems suspicious to me too.

[JamesWales]

The patriots on twitter think all it took was one mention of Rwanda. Seems suspicious to me too.

Indeed. I do think the policy could help reduce the amount of illegal immigration, deaths at sea and profits for people smugglers, so I support it on balance. But I don't see how it could have such a dramatic impact, so something seems strange.

[Tito Fuente]

Indeed. I do think the policy could help reduce the amount of illegal immigration, deaths at sea and profits for people smugglers, so I support it on balance. But I don't see how it could have such a dramatic impact, so something seems strange.

You don't think that they could be lying, do you?

[JamesWales]

You don't think that they could be lying, do you?

I'm not really one for conspiracy theories.

In this case, it would be pretty easy to debunk as a single verified photo from the last five days from any member of the public would do it.

[life on mars]

Labour quiet on Rwandan solution ,very vocal on cakes and parties

[Tito Fuente]

Labour quiet on Rwandan solution ,very vocal on cakes and parties

I imagine your Rwandan solution is very similar to what happened in '94.

[life on mars]

I'm not sure whats happened, but there have been zero reported crossings in the last 5 days, despite weather being okay. I struggle to believe talk of Rwanda or the responsibility passing to the MOD has had such an immediate impact

https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...-24-april-2022

Perhaps a mixture of reasons , French upping thier game , the thought of Rwanda has the desired effect , the MOD are more efficient the Border Control , who knows ??


If it saves life's and provides better and safer entry procedures it will be seen as a result.

I just wish the folk who oppose such measures could provide a better clwar solution or policy that one could understand, rather than just offer criticism , that then allows the electorate to have a clear view of where each political party stands. Just saying its racist ,waste of money , unfair , against human rights, blame Brexit or Farage and evil right wingingers is weak and doesn't really provide a clear answer to an issue that has dominated political life for some time now even among Labour supporters there us division on the matter , hence the fence sitting or cheap racist remarks .

[JamesWales]

I imagine your Rwandan solution is very similar to what happened in '94.

Rather distasteful comment that is unless you are referring to something other than the Rwandan genocide.

[Tito Fuente]

Rather distasteful comment that is unless you are referring to something other than the Rwandan genocide.

I was referring to him likely choosing Diana Ross to take the opening penalty of the USA World Cup.

Life on Mars seems happy to suggest that most male refugees are wrong-uns and literally said that he thinks most of them aren't "true refugees". I find that very distasteful.

Did you miss that comment or just choose to ignore it as he's been supporting the same policy and party as you?

From his comments he's clearly happy for them to remain in their home country where they could be murdered by the state they are trying to flee as they're not true refugees unless they managed to procreate.

He would have had any fleeing male Rwandans flown back there and any criticism or question of his statements would presumably result in him telling me to put one of them up in my non-existent spare room (got a house full, sorry Life on Mars) if I care enough.

Very distasteful if you ask me.