How bad are Man United?

[BlueArmy 86]

Ronaldo wouldn't get near any of those teams these days

That said, Manure are still the 6th best team in the country or thereabouts

Ronaldo is not the player he was, but he's scored 21 goals this season in that rubbish side. Imagine how many he would score at Man City, who need a striker.

[Sir Sidney Ruff-Diamond]

Problems began long before OGS. Fergie shouldn’t have returned after he retired the first time, that’s when their problems started.

Their problems started when those parasitic usurers took over, getting JP Morgan to stump up the purchase money on the guarantee of debt interest repayments ad infinitum.

The Glazers and JP Morgan loaded the debt onto the club, who had previously been making a profit. They are sucking the club dry.

There are an increasing number of British football clubs that are in or getting in the same boat.

[Bobby Dandruff]

Problems began long before OGS. Fergie shouldn’t have returned after he retired the first time, that’s when their problems started.

Of course.

But any big club stupid enough to employ him as their manager clearly has no idea what they are doing.

[MacAdder]

Extremely!
They are a club in turmoil.

I hope that people who criticise our club for the way it is run, owner, players watched that last night.

Yes Liverpool are a good side, even a great side, but the way MU went about their business showed that the management and players are miles apart.
CCFC have a lot of building to do yes, but we could be far far worse off than we are judging from that last night.
Their wage bill is 50, a hundred times bigger than ours.

At least since Morison came in we have looked on times to have a game plan and even played some decent stuff, up until a few weeks ago that is, basically til we were safe. But Manchester United!!

This Dutch bloke MU they are bringing in had better be a magician to turn the club around to what the fans expect in a season or two.

[Rjk]

Extremely!
They are a club in turmoil.

I hope that people who criticise our club for the way it is run, owner, players watched that last night.

Yes Liverpool are a good side, even a great side, but the way MU went about their business showed that the management and players are miles apart.
CCFC have a lot of building to do yes, but we could be far far worse off than we are judging from that last night.

At least since Morison came in we have looked on times to have a game plan and even played some decent stuff, up until a few weeks ago that is, basically til we were safe. But Manchester United!!

This Dutch bloke MU they are bringing in had better be a magician to turn the club around to what the fans expect in a season or two.

Man U are a complete mess compared to where they should be - but I doubt many of their fans would trade places with us tbh.

Their income is still massive compared to almost every other club, so they can afford to pay for players to sort out their squad relatively quickly. The owners have taken a lot of money out, and the lack of a director of football seems to be holding them back massively, but they're still probably going to finish 5th or 6th

[Rjk]

I never ever watch 'el plastico', but with all the pundits on Talksport saying how Man Utd were in for an expected hammering, I settled down to watch it. Man Utd were awful. I really, truly do hope they go down next season. it would be great to see the number of the plastic supporters wearing Man Utd tops diminish greatly in the South Wales area with that occurrence. Now, where's both Tommy Doc and Denis Law when you need them?

Sadly it probably wouldn't affect their plastic fans unless it was an extended period out of the top tier. If anything most plastic fans would feel that it "validated" their fanship - they will now be "proper" fans, how could they be considered to be glory supporters if they were Man U fans during a relegation season and a season outside the top flight.

Ridiculous I know, but I guarantee there will be fans who think like that.
I know a ManU fan from Ayelsbury, who swears blind she's not a glory supporter because the year she started to support them they finished 2nd

[goats]

I might be wrong here but the last time they were relegated the following season they averaged the biggest attendances in the country?

They were also attracting hordes of new fans as their supporters rampaged their way through the second division. Their game down here getting mythological status amongst some of the older lot I used to knock around with.

They won’t go down. A few keys signings and get rid of idiots like pogba and they will easily finish 4th. They need to stop wasting money. It must be tough for utd fans almost now no longer being even considered rivals on the pitch to Man City and Liverpool….that’s embarrassing.

[delmbox]

I'm not sure they averaged the biggest home atendances that season. I'm sure Liverpool would have been higher than theirs was.

There is a very good reason why the Utd game it home in August 1974 has reached mythical proportions. Here are two reviews of that game, both from the Man Utd perspective. In the 2nd paragraph of the first article the writer states:

Our supporters would descend on the rival town or city and take it over. Trains, coaches, cars from all over Britain would arrive throughout matchday. Rival fans were overawed. There would be exceptions, some rival supporters decided to stand in the way of this Red tide. Cardiff City on a bright, sunny August day in 1974 were the first.

https://strettynews.com/2013/11/24/t...-39-years-ago/

The second contains descriptions of characters that a few of our older fans may recognise:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/card...d-1974.158684/

Jesus Christ I just read both of those

[Rjk]

Jesus Christ I just read both of those

I thought they were a good read, these things are always more sympathetic to read from the perspective of the side who have had a leathering.

The cardiff antagonist from the second article sounds like a complete psychopath.

[the other bob wilson]

I don’t recognise either of those two descriptions. I’m not saying those things didn’t take place, just that, in my experience, if you’re not interested in having a fight, you can, almost always, avoid one. From memory, I didn’t see any trouble at all on my way to and from the ground, but looking from the back of the Grange End at separate fights going on simultaneously in each of the other three stands in the ground was something I’d not seen before or since.

As always, my main interest was in the game and Man United were never in any trouble once they’d scored their early penalty.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Awful, it’s so easy for Liverpool - if they don’t get complacent, they could get five or six.

Didn't they lose to their Liverpool 9 nil on aggregate, even worse than us (only just) and it must hurt because most of them are plastics and only support them because they win trebles and alike!

[xsnaggle]

But last night Liverpool were on a completely different level to Manure.
Yes they are probably still in the top 6 or7 clubs in the UK (and therefore probably the world) but on last night's showing they won't last long, they're going in the wrong direction.
Even when one or other of these clubs are in the doldrums the team has always 'stood up' for this fixture, but last night they didn't even have the bottle or the pride for that. I have no love for Manure but it was terrible to see, like men playing boys. The crowd should have got their money back.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

When tarty plastic clubs like United get stuffed I always have a chuckle . Sadly another tarty plastic club handed out the beating . But there is always hope .

[MacAdder]

Man U are a complete mess compared to where they should be - but I doubt many of their fans would trade places with us tbh.

Their income is still massive compared to almost every other club, so they can afford to pay for players to sort out their squad relatively quickly. The owners have taken a lot of money out, and the lack of a director of football seems to be holding them back massively, but they're still probably going to finish 5th or 6th

No shit Sherlock

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Pretty bad. But they shouldn't be. It's all about management. They have a great squad. Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea just have far, far, far better managers.

They've got too many players that can't be managed, though. And a lot of their players are overpaid and overrated. They're completely incapable of carrying out instructions. One manager, maybe but they've been exactly the same under Moyes, LVG, Jose, OGS and Rangnick.

No tears here though, I wish all the big clubs go this way . Although the broken club narrative, do me a bloody favour.

[The Lone Gunman]

I might be wrong here but the last time they were relegated the following season they averaged the biggest attendances in the country?

You are correct.

In 1973/74, Manchester United finished 21st of 22 in the old First Division and were relegated. Nevertheless, they topped the attendance charts that season with an average of 42,712.

In 1974/75, they won the Second Division championship. They were the best-supported side in the Football League with an average attendance of 48,387. First Division runners-up Liverpool were ranked with an average of 45,966.

In 1975/76, United finished third in the First Division and were comfortably the best-supported side in the Football League. They averaged 54,750, while champions Liverpool were ranked second with an average of 41,623.

[The Lone Gunman]

I'm not sure they averaged the biggest home attendances that season. I'm sure Liverpool would have been higher than theirs was.

Man Utd's average (in the Second Division) was higher than Liverpool's average (in the First Division) by approximately 2,400. They were the best-supported side in the country.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

You are correct.

In 1973/74, Manchester United finished 21st of 22 in the old First Division and were relegated. Nevertheless, they topped the attendance charts that season with an average of 42,712.

In 1974/75, they won the Second Division championship. They were the best-supported side in the Football League with an average attendance of 48,387. First Division runners-up Liverpool were ranked with an average of 45,966.

In 1975/76, United finished third in the First Division and were comfortably the best-supported side in the Football League. They averaged 54,750, while champions Liverpool were ranked second with an average of 41,623.

Would I be right in assuming that United have generally always had bigger crowds than Liverpool simply because they have generally had a ground with a greater capacity?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Man Utd's average (in the Second Division) was higher than Liverpool's average (in the First Division) by approximately 2,400. They were the best-supported side in the country.

No surprise to me. United were a massive club for many, many years.

Out of interest, and only if you have the stats to hand, did Spurs attendance suffer because of relegation? Newcastle, for example, have been relegated a couple of times and their crowds have barely suffered.

[Wales-Bales]

Awful, it’s so easy for Liverpool - if they don’t get complacent, they could get five or six.

I don't think football was a high priority for the Manchester players, after the very sad news earlier in the day.

[The Lone Gunman]

Would I be right in assuming that United have generally always had bigger crowds than Liverpool simply because they have generally had a ground with a greater capacity?

I don't know, but I guess it depends what periods we're talking about. The side with the best average flip-flopped a few times in the 60's and 70's:

64/65 - Man Utd
65/66 - Liverpool
66/67 - Man Utd
67/68 - Man Utd
68/69 - Man Utd
69/70 - Man Utd
70/71 - Liverpool
71/72 - Liverpool
72/73 - Man Utd

Then it was United every year until:

87/88 - Liverpool
88/89 - Liverpool
89/90 - Man Utd
90/91 - Man Utd
91/92 - Man Utd
92/93 - Liverpool
93/94 - Man Utd

[The Lone Gunman]

Out of interest, and only if you have the stats to hand, did Spurs attendance suffer because of relegation? Newcastle, for example, have been relegated a couple of times and their crowds have barely suffered.

75/76 - Div 1 - 27,836
76/77 - Div 1 - 30,173 (relegated)
77/78 - Div 2 - 33,417 (promoted)
78/79 - Div 1 - 34,902

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I don't know, but I guess it depends what periods we're talking about. The side with the best average flip-flopped a few times in the 60's and 70's:

64/65 - Man Utd
65/66 - Liverpool
66/67 - Man Utd
67/68 - Man Utd
68/69 - Man Utd
69/70 - Man Utd
70/71 - Liverpool
71/72 - Liverpool
72/73 - Man Utd

Then it was United every year until:

87/88 - Liverpool
88/89 - Liverpool
89/90 - Man Utd
90/91 - Man Utd
91/92 - Man Utd
92/93 - Liverpool
93/94 - Man Utd

Thanks for that.

So Liverpool had a greater average attendance 6 times in 3 decades. With the capacity increases at Old Trafford and regular Premier League titles, I would be surprised if Liverpool have had a better average attendance than United since the mid 90s. We might be talking about a greater average attendance 6 times in 60 years.

It's quite something that, while Liverpool dominated so much in the 70s and 80s they didn't get bigger crowds than United. I can only presume that is due to the capacity of the stadium.

Good info, cheers.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

75/76 - Div 1 - 27,836
76/77 - Div 1 - 30,173 (relegated)
77/78 - Div 2 - 33,417 (promoted)
78/79 - Div 1 - 34,902

Thanks

[Rjk]

Sunderland attendances are still pretty impressive - 4th season in league one and they're averaging around 31k still