Reply With QuoteWouldn't be bothered if Starmer went, maybe then we could get someone who actually represents what Labour is supposed to be, someone like Andy Burnham.
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Starmer cancelling that Q and A session with the media today was a bad move, it would have been testing, but he needs to front up. I believe the right move both morally and tactically is to say he will resign if he is given a fixed penalty notice.
Wouldn't be bothered if Starmer went, maybe then we could get someone who actually represents what Labour is supposed to be, someone like Andy Burnham.
Political Parties have the incredible knack of picking the most unsuitable candidates for their leaders.Originally Posted by Elwood Blues
But didn't Johnson do well for himself? He went to the most expensive public school in the country on a scholarship which cost his parents precisely nothing. Angela Rayner has done well for herself but would you really want her as Labour leader? It's not a question of what they have done or the school or University they attended; all leaders should have public appeal and that's the only thing that matters.
That’s just about the most appropriate term you can use for Johnson - “done well for himself”, because it’s always been about himself. I don’t believe that’s true of Starmer (and many Conservative MPs) and I don’t believe Angela Rayner is in it entirely for herself either - I’ll be very disappointed in Starmer if he tries to hang on after a penalty notice like Johnson is, so predictably, doing.
Hardly the same as holding repeated parties throughout lockdown as Johnson and his chums have clearly done (more fines to come from the Met and the Sue Gray report still to come don't forget), but enough to make it difficult to criticise if he has broken the rules.
If he's not done anything wrong and doesn't get a fine, the Tories look stupid (again).
If he has and is fined, he should resign as it's the right and proper thing to do, and call on Johnson and Sunak to do the same.
The Tories think this has got them off the hook, but it could backfire spectacularly.
Interesting that Rees-Mogg was downplaying it all earlier.
Thanks. The post of mine you referenced was responding to the post by waynekerr55 who indicated we need need far more people who had done well for themselves. My post was merely stating that the unsuitable Boris Johnson and Angela Rayner had done well for themselves but are unsuitable for leading roles. The fact people had done well is no qualification for leading major political parties. In essence I was disagreeing with waynekerr55.
Waste of time same as Boris but he's made a mess for himself demanding Rishi and Boris should resign
As Rees Mogg was calling it all ‘fluff’ a few weeks ago, he can’t do anything other than down play it.
True.
Just read that Starmer may announce today that he'll definitely resign if he is given a fine. Big gamble if he does.
why? Starmer was calling for Boris to go after he was fined (quite right as well). If Starmer is fined then it will be rather telling if he is a man with the courage in his convictions.
one thing we can say for sure, most politicians don't believe in playing by the rules.
Boris should resign, of that there is no question. however what Boris does, which everyone else should look at, is avoid holding the moral high ground whenever there is an issue. Starmer is going to have to back up his words with deeds.
I’m struggling to think of anything Johnson could claim the “moral high ground” about.
that is because you are left leaning and therefore you'll not have common ground with Johnson. You also ignore the crux of my point entirely. Johnson never criticises anyone else for their own perceived (lack of) moral compass, which means he doesn't leave himself exposed for the same kind of criticism Starmer now finds himself subject to. If you are going to claim the moral high ground, you really do need no skeletons in the closet.
I quite like Starmer, but if he is issued with a FPN, its going to be hard for him to remain in post.
The problem is if Boris resigned he could stand again and be re-elected, I'm not sure Kier would be that confident that he would. Boris only needs the majority of tory MPs to vote for him, I think the labour procedure is far less straight forward
So, that’s the stage we’ve reached - a politician with no moral compass is regarded as a positive thing because he can’t be be criticised for hypocrisy
If Starmer resigns after a fixed penalty notice, there should not be any justification for Johnson remaining Prime Minister (there isn’t now anyway) - this has got nothing to do with party politics (I won’t be voting for Starmer’s party if he stays on after being fined) it’s about moral compasses
I'm pretty sure he will go if fined, his background as DPP and his previous stance make it impossible for him to stay. This then in turn makes Johnson a complete liability, brexit is the only thing keeping them polling in the 30s and the next labour leader would be less easily linked to 'remain'.So, that’s the stage we’ve reached - a politician with no moral compass is regarded as a positive thing because he can’t be be criticised for hypocrisy
If Starmer resigns after a fixed penalty notice, there should not be any justification for Johnson remaining Prime Minister (there isn’t now anyway) - this has got nothing to do with party politics (I won’t be voting for Starmer’s party if he stays on after being fined) it’s about moral compasses
It's the shame for Starmer because I think the economy over the next few years is likely to make the election unwinnable for the party in government, especially if they continue to do practically nothing to help people.
Worth also remembering that a covid inquiry that demonstrates how much money was spent ineffectively will just serve to emphasise that the reason they couldn't heavily intervene to help people through the cost of living crisis was actually their own financial mismanagement and not an act of god as they would have everyone believe.
It’s being reported that Starmer will make a statement at four saying he will resign if fined.
Tight decision, and I also view this as him having a bit more confidence in the way the investigation goes..
Really? just think he has some moral integrity unlike Johnson
You've misunderstood. Johnson doesn't leave himself exposed, unlike Starmer, if the stories are true.So, that’s the stage we’ve reached - a politician with no moral compass is regarded as a positive thing because he can’t be be criticised for hypocrisy
If Starmer resigns after a fixed penalty notice, there should not be any justification for Johnson remaining Prime Minister (there isn’t now anyway) - this has got nothing to do with party politics (I won’t be voting for Starmer’s party if he stays on after being fined) it’s about moral compasses
The post was more about Johnsons political acumen, which at this time appears greater than Starmer. Whilst Starmer has potentially shot himself in his foot, Johnson has not.
Again, the point wasn't about moral compass, because that's based on personal experience.
I do wonder if Starmer resigns whether this will force Johnson and Sunak to reassess their own positions.
Johnson doesn't leave himself exposed?
When this first broke, he was saying he was just as furious as anyone else in the country at what had been going on, and was determined to get to the bottom of it. Later we found out he was at half of them.
The difference is not about digging a hole, it's that Johnson absolutely doesn't care. I guess you can call that political acumen if you like.
lets be honest here, its all a farce
but lets look at the scenario
a group of people all sit in the same room / office working ( which was in the rules if they felt they couldnt work from home )
the same group order a Indian takeaway and beer / wine , now they sit down with the same people as they have spent the day with and eat that curry and drink a beer or 2, this is now wrong
I know we had Covid rules for a purpose, but lets have some common sense, the above scenario shows it was a joke in some instances
now its happened to both party leaders, maybe its to put it to bed, Boris has apologised and isn't going to resign, Starmer can do the same and maybe both get on with doing the jobs they are paid to do
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