Michael Gove.

[JamesWales]

The Tories voted against the minimum wage. Just like they voted against having an NHS.
They may have raised the income tax threshold but then reduced benefits elsewhere
Have you evidence to prove the Tories get more working class people into work than Labour?
The need for food banks is clearly higher in areas of poverty and in case you hadn’t noticed there were precious few foodbanks in existence prior to 2010. Now they are everywhere.

How anyone can defend a Govt full of millionaires who were forced to make a uturn to allow starving children free school meals is beyond me. They are morally bankcrupt liars and in case you hadn’t noticed they are in power far more than Labour so they take the blame for the depressing state of the UK.

You are right - a previous government did many years ago - But now they support it and have raised it by more than the opposition ever did.

Benefits have gone up and down.

Some evidence here on reduced unemployment under the Tories
https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...on-the-economy

Foodbanks have risen across the world in recent years. It's not a good thing, but the fact they are universal and the fact they are worse in areas where the Cons have less control over means to eradicate poverty, may suggest other factors are at play. There will be many, but the global financial crisis was a gamechanger.

The tories didn't vote to not feed starving school kids - they botched the vote but are actually the only party at a UK level to ever actually do it - free school meals in the holidays were never a thing before Covid. Don't believe everything Angela Rayner says.

The UK isn't necessarily in a depressing state - have you compared us to other countries?

[Tito Fuente]

I'm saying that he says the Foodbank he volunteers at can provide meals for 30p a day and they help users learn to cook healthy meals with the ingredients provided.

1 / I don't know whether thats true, but he invited MP's to visit to find out

2 / Yes, I think as long as volunteers are cooking the food, then I think a meal could just about be provided for 30p - something such as a stew, perhaps sausage, mash and peas etc.

It's the volunteers bit that's confusing me.

Either it costs 30p per day for someone to buy ingredients and cook a meal or it doesn't.

Sausage, mash and peas would cost more than that. Unless you buy the cheapest pack of sausages you can find and only have one of them with your meal.

All part of a varied diet too, I assume.

[JamesWales]

It's the volunteers bit that's confusing me.

Either it costs 30p per day for someone to buy ingredients and cook a meal or it doesn't.

Sausage, mash and peas would cost more than that. Unless you buy the cheapest pack of sausages you can find and only have one of them with your meal.

All part of a varied diet too, I assume.

As with another poster, I'm not sure you have listened to the video. The MP says that when people come to the foodbank in Ashfield, they have to sign up to a budgeting course and a cookery course. I think to solve the problem, this is a good thing, don't you? It's helping people more. Giving people skills.

He then goes on to say they can provide a meal for 30p a day.

I'm saying, that if that meal is provided for by volunteers (ie, cooked in the centre, as he seems to imply) then I think that could be done for 30p a day.

I also think people could make some meals at home for 30p.

Where it isn't possible, is if those cooking it are paid to do so - thats what I mean by volunteers.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

As with another poster, I'm not sure you have listened to the video. The MP says that when people come to the foodbank in Ashfield, they have to sign up to a budgeting course and a cookery course. I think to solve the problem, this is a good thing, don't you? It's helping people more. Giving people skills.

He then goes on to say they can provide a meal for 30p a day.

I'm saying, that if that meal is provided for by volunteers (ie, cooked in the centre, as he seems to imply) then I think that could be done for 30p a day.

I also think people could make some meals at home for 30p.

Where it isn't possible, is if those cooking it are paid to do so - thats what I mean by volunteers.

In general, meals produced as cheaply as possible are far less healthy.

What I particularly detest is wealthy bastards telling those who are worst off how to manage on as little as possible.

[Tito Fuente]

The point is, the UK government is responsible for benefits in every nation/region in the UK. And yet there are glaring disparities nationwide, and those where they have far less responsibility (in transport, education, economic devt, healthcare, housing) the need for foodbanks is far worse.

I wasn't accusing you of not caring. I was answering your questions. I do think people who just use any situation of suffering and make a lazy political argument devoid of facts are guilty of caring more about politics than helping people. If you want to solve a problem, you look at the facts.

You have no idea how I vote, but I had three votes last week, and I assure you one of those went to a centre-left party. And as I said, you view it as consistently punching down on the most needy, but I have stated four facts here;

1 / the tories raised minimum wage more than labour
2 / the tories raised the tax threshold on lowest paid more than labour
3 / the tories typically get more working class people in jobs than labour
4 / the need for foodbanks is demonstrably higher in places where the tories have the least control over the levers of power.

Notice, I won't accuse you of voting for a party that consistently punches down, but the evidence isnt great.

Labour were in power for how long?

1/ did they raise the minimum wage more than Labour did in 'real' terms or was it more because of inflation?

2 / same question for the tax threshold

3 / the Tories use 0-hour contracts and people working more than one job to survive to suggest that they are getting more people into work. Saying that they typically get more working class people into jobs than Labour is an odds sentence considering the above.

4 / again, you think that because of devolution that decades of Tory rule can suddenly be forgotten and how the impact of decades of "Wales, Scotland and North West England, Yorkshire and Humber, North East England etc" being ignored in terms of funding for the things I already mentioned is just going to be fixed in an instant.

You've said a few times that you voted for Boris Johnson so of course I know who you vote for. Bit silly to tell me otherwise.

[Dave Blue]

That knob pulled in £200k in expenses last year. Only the brain dead can defend a clown like this.

[Tito Fuente]

As with another poster, I'm not sure you have listened to the video. The MP says that when people come to the foodbank in Ashfield, they have to sign up to a budgeting course and a cookery course. I think to solve the problem, this is a good thing, don't you? It's helping people more. Giving people skills.

He then goes on to say they can provide a meal for 30p a day.

I'm saying, that if that meal is provided for by volunteers (ie, cooked in the centre, as he seems to imply) then I think that could be done for 30p a day.

I also think people could make some meals at home for 30p.

Where it isn't possible, is if those cooking it are paid to do so - thats what I mean by volunteers.

I watched it twice and what you're saying doesn't make sense.

He talks about a budgeting course and a cooking course (great idea, nobody is knocking that James so calm down a bit and concentrate on what I'm saying). The 30p per day quote is in regards to how much people can prepare food for.

If it wasn't, then what's the point in people learning to cook and to budget when they can go and buy a hot, fresh meal for 30p.

Hence me being confused about you talking about volunteers cooking it.

Go and watch the video again and try to make sense of what you're saying.

[JamesWales]

I watched it twice and what you're saying doesn't make sense.

He talks about a budgeting course and a cooking course (great idea, nobody is knocking that James so calm down a bit and concentrate on what I'm saying). The 30p per day quote is in regards to how much people can prepare food for.

If it wasn't, then what's the point in people learning to cook and to budget when they can go and buy a hot, fresh meal for 30p.

Hence me being confused about you talking about volunteers cooking it.

Go and watch the video again and try to make sense of what you're saying.

I'm perfectly calm. You remind me of an old passive-aggresive uncle of mine, who used to start every debate by saying 'calm down'. My auntie threw a glass of wine at him at a party once, so maybe he did have a point!?

Anyway, it seems to me he is saying that:

1 / they provide meals that can be done for 30p - I think that is doable if unpaid staff do it (ie volunteers) in a large part due to economies of scale

2 / It also seems they will provide courses to help people prepare and cook meals for 30p. I do think this is tougher, but as long as the person cooking it at home isn't paid (as none of us are when we cook our own meals- ie, effectively "a volunteer" then it is also just about doable.

Either way, helping those who come in budget and cook better (as the dastardly Tory MP was saying) is a good thing. It's far more useful than people on the internet turning it into yet another chance to wheel out tropes about the government.

[Tito Fuente]

I'm perfectly calm. You remind me of an old passive-aggresive uncle of mine, who used to start everything by saying 'calm down'.

Anyway, it seems to me he is saying that:

1 / they provide meals that can be done for 30p - I think that is doable if unpaid staff do it (ie volunteers) in a large part due to economies of scale

2 / It also seems they will provide courses to help people prepare and cook meals for 30p. I do think this is tougher, but as long as the person cooking it at home isn't paid (as none of us are when we cook our own meals- ie, effectively "a volunteer" then it is also just about doable.

Either way, helping those who come in budget and cook better (as the dastardly Tory MP was saying) is a good thing. It's far more useful than people on the internet turning it into yet another chance to wheel out tropes about the government.

I was just mirroring how you speak to other posters when you accuse them of being angry. You did it to Doucas the other day, in case you've forgotten? Something about him spitting all over his keyboard while angrily typing. It's been pointed out to you before that you say it frequently.

I give up if you are going to persist continuing to change the meaning of what the MP said so that it can mean several things that suit your argument, instead of what he said actually being offensive and incorrect.

Budgeting and cooking courses are
an excellent idea (as I already said) as long as one actually has enough money to budget in the first place.

Carry on regardless Mr Wales. You know best.

[JamesWales]

I was just mirroring how you speak to other posters when you accuse them of being angry. You did it to Doucas the other day, in case you've forgotten? Something about him spitting all over his keyboard while angrily typing. It's been pointed out to you before that you say it frequently.

I give up if you are going to persist continuing to change the meaning of what the MP said so that it can mean several things that suit your argument, instead of what he said actually being offensive and incorrect.

Budgeting and cooking courses are
an excellent idea (as I already said) as long as one actually has enough money to budget in the first place.

Carry on regardless Mr Wales. You know best.

Have you actually read the stuff that Doucus says and what he calls people with different views? I havent seen you call it out and it's very bigoted often personal stuff. If you only call it out when it's against you, then you aren't calling it out at all.

It's not totally clear what the MP said, which is why I broke it down; it could mean one of two things. Both of which are probably true in that meals could be done for 30p.

Glad you agree that it sounds like a good scheme they run at the foodbank in question, and lets hope some MP's take up the offer to visit.

I don't know best, but I know that listening, talking, understanding, debating, looking at statistics is the way to solve problems, rather than blindly blaming something that may not be the main issue, but makes people feel good to say it.

[Tito Fuente]

Have you actually read the stuff that Doucus says and what he calls people with different views? You never call it out and it's very bigoted stuff. If you only call it out when it's against you, then you aren't calling it out at all.

It's not totally clear what the MP said, which is why I broke it down; it could mean one of two things. Both of which are probably true in that meals could be done for 30p.

Glad you agree that it sounds like a good scheme they run at the foodbank in question, and lets hope some MP's take up the offer to visit

I took the piss out of him the other day for something he said about you. It's not just Doucas you patronisingly accuse of getting angry though. You must have forgotten that you do it.

Varied and healthy meals are not getting made in people's homes for 30p with the best budgeting and will in the world. As I said, it'll cost you 30p just to use your oven or hob.

Bye.

[JamesWales]

I took the piss out of him the other day for something he said about you. It's not just Doucas you patronisingly accuse of getting angry though. You must have forgotten that you do it.

Varied and healthy meals are not getting made in people's homes for 30p with the best budgeting and will in the world. As I said, it'll cost you 30p just to use your oven or hob.

Bye.

Now who's angry..

[Eric the Half a Bee]

It's not a staggering reply. I think it's true. Certain people like to exploit them for political purposes.

As explained,
1 / They exist across Europe and the world and have grown at broadly the same rates irrespective of government colour in those countries.
2 / They are more prominent in parts of the UK where the UK govt has less control over poverty reduction (ie, healthcare, job creation, education, transport etc)

ergo, for people to just lazily blame the UK government is politicising it and not getting to the root of the problem. It is NOT helping to solve the problem. It's politicising it but not helping the issue as the issues go way beyond who is in power in Westminster. The UK govt are undoubtedly part of the story, but not the whole story.

This is a classic example, where the MP we are discussing is saying the foodbank he volunteers at requires people to undertake a course in budget management and cookery - wholly positive things that will only help people over the long term, whilst also helping in the immediate short term. He's right in what he says.

It's still moving essential necessities from state help to charity help. In other words, if you're hungry, can't afford to eat, the state won't help you. You're reliant on charity help.

[JamesWales]

It's still moving essential necessities from state help to charity help. In other words, if you're hungry, can't afford to eat, the state won't help you. You're reliant on charity help.

I never said it was a good thing. The point is to change it and produce a system that best helps people in the long run

[North Cardiff Blue]

Didn’t put this on the politics board because I don’t think it’s political really - made me laugh.

https://youtu.be/XBQCPZOnxF4

He's very odd?

[HiVis]

Staggering reply.

Foodbanks move state help to charity status.

Why is state help ok but charitable help is not? And whatever your answer is, it will ignore the point that we really shouldnt need either form of assistance in one of the richest countries in the world.

The left and right arguing whose form of assistance and help is best is akin to two bald men arguing over a comb.

These threads are utterly pointless and bereft of any kind of critique or objectivity.

[the other bob wilson]

Why is state help ok but charitable help is not? And whatever your answer is, it will ignore the point that we really shouldnt need either form of assistance in one of the richest countries in the world.

The left and right arguing whose form of assistance and help is best is akin to two bald men arguing over a comb.

These threads are utterly pointless and bereft of any kind of critique or objectivity.

David Cameron's "big society" was essentially about getting the ordinary punter to pay towards services his Government were cutting down on in their "we're all in this together" austerity programme. The whole notion of food banks is on a similar theme. I agree with you to the extent that it is a disgrace that there is such a heavy reliance on them in what we're told is the fifth richest country in the world.

I'd also say that Labour have to be held culpable for there being the number of food banks there were in the noughties, but in 2019 the Trussell Trust said there had been a 3,900 per cent increase in the number of foodbanks in the UK since 2010 - when you're talking figures of such magnitude, this has to be a party political issue because it seems reasonable to believe that the increase would not have been as great if any other party but the Conservatives had been in power for that time.

https://www.charity-works.co.uk/food...st%209%20years.

[HiVis]

David Cameron's "big society" was essentially about getting the ordinary punter to pay towards services his Government were cutting down on in their "we're all in this together" austerity programme. The whole notion of food banks is on a similar theme. I agree with you to the extent that it is a disgrace that there is such a heavy reliance on them in what we're told is the fifth richest country in the world.

I'd also say that Labour have to be held culpable for there being the number of food banks there were in the noughties, but in 2019 the Trussell Trust said there had been a 3,900 per cent increase in the number of foodbanks in the UK since 2010 - when you're talking figures of such magnitude, this has to be a party political issue because it seems reasonable to believe that the increase would not have been as great if any other party but the Conservatives had been in power for that time.

https://www.charity-works.co.uk/food...st%209%20years.

The Tories freed up the use of foodbanks and made it easier for people to use them, so it is hardly surprising that their use has increased. However, a rise of 3900% cannot be put down to ease of use alone and points towards underlying structural issues in society. The left wing answer of benefits and redistribution via tax is just "foodbanks" provided for by the state, so that's not an answer to the underlying problem either.

both benefits and foodbanks are equally shameful in today's UK, but depending on where you sit on the political spectrum will determine whether you are for or against foodbanks and/or benefits. So whilst the party political acolytes from either side laud their own preference and denounce the alternative, both are equally culpable of missing the real issue at hand. But that's the level of maturity we come to expect from UK politics. All style, no substance. It is better to criticise your opponent that push forward your own policies.

We are in the midst of the greatest foreign affairs crisis since 1938, we have a cost of living crisis where people have to choose between eating and heating and we have a post Covid19 backlog of healthcare cases right across the UK including devolved administrations, but the single biggest political football this week has been about whether Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer had a beer or cake with work colleagues.

We get the system we deserve.

[the other bob wilson]

The Tories freed up the use of foodbanks and made it easier for people to use them, so it is hardly surprising that their use has increased. However, a rise of 3900% cannot be put down to ease of use alone and points towards underlying structural issues in society. The left wing answer of benefits and redistribution via tax is just "foodbanks" provided for by the state, so that's not an answer to the underlying problem either.

both benefits and foodbanks are equally shameful in today's UK, but depending on where you sit on the political spectrum will determine whether you are for or against foodbanks and/or benefits. So whilst the party political acolytes from either side laud their own preference and denounce the alternative, both are equally culpable of missing the real issue at hand. But that's the level of maturity we come to expect from UK politics. All style, no substance. It is better to criticise your opponent that push forward your own policies.

We are in the midst of the greatest foreign affairs crisis since 1938, we have a cost of living crisis where people have to choose between eating and heating and we have a post Covid19 backlog of healthcare cases right across the UK including devolved administrations, but the single biggest political football this week has been about whether Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer had a beer or cake with work colleagues.

We get the system we deserve.

Your first sentence cracked me up, but I presume you mean this

https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...od-bank-claims

[HiVis]

Your first sentence cracked me up, but I presume you mean this

https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...od-bank-claims

I mean it was a deliberate policy that brought food banks to the attention of those who may not have known their existence previously.

If that is all you took from what I write then its evident you're still focusing on the wrong things.

[Hilts]

I genuinely dont know. But I believe inflation is 7%. Did the Tories increase thre minimum age above this?

Many thousands of public sector workers still waiting for any public sector pay increase and the forthcoming one is well below the level of inflation.

Meanwhile BP post record profits as people struggle with the cost of living and head to the food banks.

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

Maybe you didn't read the article you posted?

Granted, it is designed to inflame the culture wars and to be spread far and wide on social media, rather than accurately report anything - thats why the quote from the man who is accused comes so far down in the article.

But as stated, the buffet was put on not by them, but by the organisers, and they were asked to cut the ribbon. Also, everyone in the photo is smiling.

So, yes, thats why I think left wingers love politicising these issues - not surprised to see the Lord Chief of Smug James O'Brien getting involved.

Of course I read it. Don't be patronising. You're missing the point. It's clearly a stupid idea and they were always going to get grief for it, especially after they posted photos on their own Facebook page. They could quite easily have explained to the organisers that eating at a foodbank opening wasn't a good idea so thanks but no thanks.
It's like an episode of The Thick of It. Malcolm Tucker would be apoplectic.

[JamesWales]

Of course I read it. Don't be patronising. You're missing the point. It's clearly a stupid idea and they were always going to get grief for it, especially after they posted photos on their own Facebook page. They could quite easily have explained to the organisers that eating at a foodbank opening wasn't a good idea so thanks but no thanks.
It's like an episode of The Thick of It. Malcolm Tucker would be apoplectic.

I disagree. And here's a Merseyside Labour MP smiling at a food bank donation stand too.

It's a twitter storm manufactured by those who seek to politicise the opening of a food bank that was done in accordance with how the volunteers wanted it - everyone was smiling

Check him out - grinning like a Cheshire cat
https://www.southportvisiter.co.uk/n...oppers-8220181

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

https://images.app.goo.gl/o6LG2WRM3XVoiAPZ7

The rt hon James Wales CCMB

[JamesWales]

https://images.app.goo.gl/o6LG2WRM3XVoiAPZ7

The rt hon James Wales CCMB

I wish.