RMT Strikes

[chrisp_1927]

Let's be clear . The scotrail 'strike' is not a strike. If employees don't want to work overtime that is their right. If you run a company so poorly that you rely on massive amounts of overtime from your staff to make things work, that is your issue as a business.

The government have given billions through covid to keep the railways running and they could have had some goodwill. I honestly think if they'd have made an offer of 3% it would have been accepted. Unfortunately they refused to really talk to companies or unions about pay. The train operators are now all on direct contracts so are completely reliant on dft decisions in terms of pay. I'm no fan of the rmt, but I don't think they had much of a choice here.

Hopefully an agreement can be made before strike action occurs. There is talk today that boris and the treasury are having a disagreement, boris wants to give a 5% rise, rishi says no.

[HiVis]

Ok so let's say you're right and that inflation has only gone up 2% a year which over 14 years is 28%. (I believe its gone up far higher, housing costs have gone up higher than 28% as has electricity, gas and fuel).

According to this source wages have gone up by only 21%. Which is a 7% reduction. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ngs-in-the-uk/

I'd also argue that average wage is a poor metric to compare against and median wage would be better due to inequality growing.

Inflation hasn't always been at 2% since 2008, quite a few years it was less and at one point it was even negative. However its kind of moot because if I have understood your post correctly, you're stating that inflation impacts different people in different ways. If this is the case I agree. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that wage inflation for those on lower incomes is probably less than for those on higher incomes across the period.

Even worse, CPI doesn't take into account mortgages so those who have bought houses in the period are probably even worse off overall.

[HiVis]

Its actually more than 28% because the 2% lift is year on year. As an exercise to demonstrate start with 100 and add 2% 14 times. You'll be surprised. I think it's nearer35%.

As above, inflation was not 2% every year. It was a target for BoE but in some years it was less than 2%.

[xsnaggle]

Let's be clear . The scotrail 'strike' is not a strike. If employees don't want to work overtime that is their right. If you run a company so poorly that you rely on massive amounts of overtime from your staff to make things work, that is your issue as a business.

The government have given billions through covid to keep the railways running and they could have had some goodwill. I honestly think if they'd have made an offer of 3% it would have been accepted. Unfortunately they refused to really talk to companies or unions about pay. The train operators are now all on direct contracts so are completely reliant on dft decisions in terms of pay. I'm no fan of the rmt, but I don't think they had much of a choice here.

Hopefully an agreement can be made before strike action occurs. There is talk today that boris and the treasury are having a disagreement, boris wants to give a 5% rise, rishi says no.

The agreement with Scotrail is for Krankie and her ilk, not Westminster.

The overtime problem was caused by no drivers being trained to fill vacancies during the covid panic because the unions would not allow people to attend for fear of catching it. Protecting their members by not running courses and now protecting their members because there are not enough drivers because the rail companies did not train anybody. (sorry about the pun lol)

makes perfect sense.

But you're right, it is not a strike but it will be because the RMT has stated clearly only this week that it intends to call all its members out

[xsnaggle]

As above, inflation was not 2% every year. It was a target for BoE but in some years it was less than 2%.

I do not disagree, I was only pointing out that 2% for 14 years does not give you 28%. It is compounded. Simple maths.

[dembethewarrior]

its a bit more complicated than that. Network Rail is publicly owned, and passes on its costs to the franchise holders. Without a franchise model the government will lose billions in franchise fees and taxes levied on profits.



dividends only account for 2.5% of revenue received, so private ownership and the payment of dividends doesn't impact pricing as much as you think it does.

source

However, privatisation only works where there is genuine competition, and the franchise model whereby you only have one operator goes against the theory. so in this respect, privatisation is more ideologically driven than for practicality.

Whatever happens, we really do need to invest more, and whether that is public or private is moot.

Network Rail maintain the infrastructure.

The companies on strike part of the RMT would be TOCs. Train operating companies.

[HiVis]

Network Rail maintain the infrastructure.

The companies on strike part of the RMT would be TOCs. Train operating companies.

Yes, I'm not of the point you are trying to make.

[chrisp_1927]

The agreement with Scotrail is for Krankie and her ilk, not Westminster.

The overtime problem was caused by no drivers being trained to fill vacancies during the covid panic because the unions would not allow people to attend for fear of catching it. Protecting their members by not running courses and now protecting their members because there are not enough drivers because the rail companies did not train anybody. (sorry about the pun lol)

makes perfect sense.

But you're right, it is not a strike but it will be because the RMT has stated clearly only this week that it intends to call all its members out

Sorry but you're wrong. It's not all down to training/lack of training during covid. Lots of train companies rely on voluntary overtime to cover their work and they have for years. Sundays especially are affected. I

[chrisp_1927]

Network Rail maintain the infrastructure.

The companies on strike part of the RMT would be TOCs. Train operating companies.

RMT also represent network rail staff, including signallers. They also voted for strike action.

[HiVis]

Sorry but you're wrong. It's not all down to training/lack of training during covid. Lots of train companies rely on voluntary overtime to cover their work and they have for years. Sundays especially are affected. I

I would have thought that TOCs would know what resourcing they require given they know what services they provide. surely it must be more cost effective to hire more staff than pay existing staff overtime.

[Cyclops]

Don't know what the strike is about and don't really care.
The average UK train driver earns £54,001 per year.
My heart bleeds for them!

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Don't know what the strike is about and don't really care.
The average UK train driver earns £54,001 per year.
My heart bleeds for them!

Holidays good, too. Every 5th week off plus around another 40 days paid holiday. Final salary pension also. Plus o/t potential, and relative job security.

[HiVis]

Holidays good, too. Every 5th week off plus around another 40 days paid holiday. Final salary pension also. Plus o/t potential, and relative job security.

Its almost as if strong unions benefit workers.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Its almost as if strong unions benefit workers.

I've been in a Union. Apart from the odd HR issue, they aren't really interested in small-scale stuff. Strong unions didn't really help the British car industry - or many others for that matter - in the 70's/80's. The workers benefited by losing their jobs.

[chrisp_1927]

I would have thought that TOCs would know what resourcing they require given they know what services they provide. surely it must be more cost effective to hire more staff than pay existing staff overtime.

Overtime and rest day money is non pensionable, so they claw a bit back that way. I fully agree with you that it would make more sense to recruit enough staff to cover the service fully, that doesn't happen though. Some TOC's are 100% reliant on overtime to cover Sundays, crazy position to be in as a business.

[chrisp_1927]

Holidays good, too. Every 5th week off plus around another 40 days paid holiday. Final salary pension also. Plus o/t potential, and relative job security.

Average driver salary doesn't really have anything to do with an RMT strike or members. Vast, vast majority of drivers are members of the ASLEF Union. The people balloted by the RMT were guards, ticket office, platform staff, aswell as network rail staff.

I think aslef are talking about balloting, but that would be a completely separate strike.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Tory boys ......defend their right to bonuses , reward for hard work .......number of people out there who say ....WE deserve our holidays ......WE work hard for OUR money

Everyone else ? Lazy wasters doing jobs anyone can do .....and they get paid too much too !

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Tory boys ......defend their right to bonuses , reward for hard work .......number of people out there who say ....WE deserve our holidays ......WE work hard for OUR money

Everyone else ? Lazy wasters doing jobs anyone can do .....and they get paid too much too !

22 years. Non-stop. relentless. Would have been nice if you could have said something nice about Labour in all these years..

[dembethewarrior]

Yes, I'm not of the point you are trying to make.

I definitely had one, but it was late so God knows now.

[dembethewarrior]

Tory boys ......defend their right to bonuses , reward for hard work .......number of people out there who say ....WE deserve our holidays ......WE work hard for OUR money

Everyone else ? Lazy wasters doing jobs anyone can do .....and they get paid too much too !

You don't even work.

[life on mars]

Greed , power , greed , driven by a left loop who earns £150k a year and needs to stay in that job

, and we think the Tories are bad .

Drivers are well paid , conditions they have are good , including great pension, and brilliant safety welfare at work ,they have regular medical tests and allowed to stay off until any suspected health issuers are completely resolved and then return on light duty and familiarisation training even if they have driven for 20 plus years , yes I have a few close driver friends saw one wage at over £90k with overtime others are upwards of 40 k to 60k .

Arrivai Train guards get 35k plus OT think the National average is 29k can earn a lot more with Overtime due to absence and there a lot that , some got a 4% rise Dec 21 .

The folk I really feel sorry for are bus drivers doing equally responsible job for £10 .50 an hour .

Power and greed blackmail of the rail unions has been with us for decades , never mind the folks who need to go to work on minimum wages , they did not got to furlough wages were supported all through that pandemic others suffered job loss and 20% pay drop .

How will this turn out automated trains because of wage demands.

This is a convenient political left battle tactic , like the issues with Passports / DVLA all to cause chaos and uncertainty I'm sure Sir Kier will be outraged . IA Is at highest in 5 yrs amid signs that workplace militancy is growing , is it political or is real hardship is the question especially when you see there are more jobs and the national Wage up again , the latest rise is the third highest annual increase since the crash of 2008

Should we not be pulling together to get the economy going and folk to work on time ??????????

PS Their fight for P&O workers is a just one as is real poorly paid folk

[Hilts]

Greed , power , greed , driven by a left loop who earns £150k a year and needs to stay in that job

, and we think the Tories are bad .

Drivers are well paid , conditions they have are good , including great pension, and brilliant safety welfare at work ,they have regular medical tests and allowed to stay off until any suspected health issuers are completely resolved and then return on light duty and familiarisation training even if they have driven for 20 plus years , yes I have a few close driver friends saw one wage at over £90k with overtime others are upwards of 40 k to 60k .

Arrivai Train guards get 35k plus OT think the National average is 29k can earn a lot more with Overtime due to absence and there a lot that , some got a 4% rise Dec 21 .

The folk I really feel sorry for are bus drivers doing equally responsible job for £10 .50 an hour .

Power and greed blackmail of the rail unions has been with us for decades , never mind the folks who need to go to work on minimum wages , they did not got to furlough wages were supported all through that pandemic others suffered job loss and 20% pay drop .

How will this turn out automated trains because of wage demands.

This is a convenient political left battle tactic , like the issues with Passports / DVLA all to cause chaos and uncertainty I'm sure Sir Kier will be outraged . IA Is at highest in 5 yrs amid signs that workplace militancy is growing , is it political or is real hardship is the question especially when you see there are more jobs and the national Wage up again , the latest rise is the third highest annual increase since the crash of 2008

Should we not be pulling together to get the economy going and folk to work on time ??????????

PS Their fight for P&O workers is a just one as is real poorly paid folk

At least you admit the Tories are bad.

[chrisp_1927]

Greed , power , greed , driven by a left loop who earns £150k a year and needs to stay in that job

, and we think the Tories are bad .

Drivers are well paid , conditions they have are good , including great pension, and brilliant safety welfare at work ,they have regular medical tests and allowed to stay off until any suspected health issuers are completely resolved and then return on light duty and familiarisation training even if they have driven for 20 plus years , yes I have a few close driver friends saw one wage at over £90k with overtime others are upwards of 40 k to 60k .

Arrivai Train guards get 35k plus OT think the National average is 29k can earn a lot more with Overtime due to absence and there a lot that , some got a 4% rise Dec 21 .

The folk I really feel sorry for are bus drivers doing equally responsible job for £10 .50 an hour .

Power and greed blackmail of the rail unions has been with us for decades , never mind the folks who need to go to work on minimum wages , they did not got to furlough wages were supported all through that pandemic others suffered job loss and 20% pay drop .

How will this turn out automated trains because of wage demands.

This is a convenient political left battle tactic , like the issues with Passports / DVLA all to cause chaos and uncertainty I'm sure Sir Kier will be outraged . IA Is at highest in 5 yrs amid signs that workplace militancy is growing , is it political or is real hardship is the question especially when you see there are more jobs and the national Wage up again , the latest rise is the third highest annual increase since the crash of 2008

Should we not be pulling together to get the economy going and folk to work on time ??????????

PS Their fight for P&O workers is a just one as is real poorly paid folk

Train driver wages have got nothing to do with this strike or the rmt (with a few exceptions) . I share a lot of your feelings about the rmt leadership. Although I'm not sure they had much of a choice here. 3 years of pay freezes for most of the staff represented by the rmt, and the government were giving every indication that was going to continue.

[Doucas]

Greed , power , greed , driven by a left loop who earns £150k a year and needs to stay in that job

, and we think the Tories are bad .

Drivers are well paid , conditions they have are good , including great pension, and brilliant safety welfare at work ,they have regular medical tests and allowed to stay off until any suspected health issuers are completely resolved and then return on light duty and familiarisation training even if they have driven for 20 plus years , yes I have a few close driver friends saw one wage at over £90k with overtime others are upwards of 40 k to 60k .

Arrivai Train guards get 35k plus OT think the National average is 29k can earn a lot more with Overtime due to absence and there a lot that , some got a 4% rise Dec 21 .

The folk I really feel sorry for are bus drivers doing equally responsible job for £10 .50 an hour .

Power and greed blackmail of the rail unions has been with us for decades , never mind the folks who need to go to work on minimum wages , they did not got to furlough wages were supported all through that pandemic others suffered job loss and 20% pay drop .

How will this turn out automated trains because of wage demands.

This is a convenient political left battle tactic , like the issues with Passports / DVLA all to cause chaos and uncertainty I'm sure Sir Kier will be outraged . IA Is at highest in 5 yrs amid signs that workplace militancy is growing , is it political or is real hardship is the question especially when you see there are more jobs and the national Wage up again , the latest rise is the third highest annual increase since the crash of 2008

Should we not be pulling together to get the economy going and folk to work on time ??????????

PS Their fight for P&O workers is a just one as is real poorly paid folk

How do you think the drivers got these conditions in the first place? From the goodness of their employers hearts? Such a bootlicker.

[life on mars]

At least you admit the Tories are bad.

Not all some are real decent human beings who go the extra mile more than a lot of us they just have a difference of politcial opinion one could argue that a lot of the current Tories have a social awareness Mr George Osbourne for instance introduced the triple lock for pensioners what a wonderful idea that was , and they have raised tax allowances thresholds and minimum wages consistently since 2008 , saved millions of job during Covid via furlough , 400 billion giveaway is a number to fixate with , it huge and will probably come back to haunt them as will the quantitative easing measures all done to help folk .